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Pies are coming

So Hodor has Brocca's aphasia

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This is a really interesting topic. Never assumed Hodor was anything other than mentally challenged in some way, but I suppose that is not definitive.

Bran would need to warg into someone if he were to fight the Night King but that in itself is conjecture. 

Hmmm. I think I'm going to waste all day tomorrow at work thinking about this and thumbing through the books. :P

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Hodor Theory

On 2.5.2016 at 5:20 AM, Ser Greenseer said:

It is a pretty popular theory that "Hodor" is the true name of the great other.

I don't know if it's any help, but I found the theory you're talking about in another thread call "Hodor Theory".

In case somebody wants it summed up.(Link above)

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ser Donkey of House Kong said:

Hodor Theory

I don't know if it's any help, but I found the theory you're talking about in another thread call "Hodor Theory".

In case somebody wants it summed up.(Link above)

 

 

 

Thank you! I've been wanting to read it but hadn't gotten around to looking for it yet.

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10 hours ago, AemonRa said:

I am mostly curious why Bloodraven stopped the vision when Bran was focused on Hodor.  I mean, that is either really lazy of the showrunners, or there is some significance to what Bran almost saw.  The "you can drown if you envision too long" argument seems thin...

He stopped the vision with Bran because he said he would drowned if he stayed in for too long.  Meaning he would never come out of it.

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42 minutes ago, W1NT3RF3LL said:

He stopped the vision with Bran because he said he would drowned if he stayed in for too long.  Meaning he would never come out of it.

Yes, but it seemed abrupt to me, and also to Bran; he said something about "You've showed me all of these things,and now when I am seeing something I actually care about you pull me out."  Why show the scene at all?  To reintroduce Lyanna and Ned?  Why have Hodor talking at all?  To give him a real name?

In previous seasons the showrunner haven't wasted time, so I try to look beyond what they have shown and see if i can figure out their method... and in this case, I don't get it.

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On 2.5.2016 at 4:35 AM, Pies are coming said:

Meaning a hit to the head damaged the areas of the brain which handle language.

Sad really. He's not intellectually retarded (no offense intended, English isn't my first language). He understands everything perfectly fine. He can't express his thoughts, though. Worse, it was probably one of the Stark kids who did it - he ended up training with them, without a helmet or training and one of them hit him hard in the wrong spot.

He still serves the Starks and chose to carry Bran beyond the Wall.

I think it's more likely he got kicked in the head by a horse, being a stable boy and all. The Starks weren't sadists.

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57 minutes ago, W1NT3RF3LL said:

He stopped the vision with Bran because he said he would drowned if he stayed in for too long.  Meaning he would never come out of it.

He stopped the vision because the show runners only have so much time per episode to tell a story.

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On 2016-05-02 at 7:05 AM, Ser Maverick said:

In Norse mythology, "Hodur" is the god of winter and darkness.

"Höðr (often anglicized as Hod, Hoder, or Hodur[1])   is a blind god and the brother of Baldr in Norse mythology. Tricked and guided by Loki, he shot the mistletoe arrow which was to slay the otherwise invulnerable Baldr.

 

According to the Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda, the goddess Frigg, Baldr's mother, made everything in existence swear never to harm Baldr, except for the mistletoe, which she found too unimportant to ask (alternatively, which she found too young to demand an oath from). The gods amused themselves by trying weapons on Baldr and seeing them fail to do any harm. Loki, the mischief-maker, upon finding out about Baldr's one weakness, made a spear from mistletoe, and helped Höðr shoot it at Baldr. In reaction to this, Odin and the giantess Rindr gave birth to Váli, who grew to adulthood within a day and slew Höðr. "

From wikipedia

 

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If the word Hodor has no particular meaning, and 'Wyllis' simply suffered an accidental knock to the head to make him as he is now, all with no relevance to the story (other than to provide Bran with a lift) it'll be one of the best red herrings in literary history.  

 

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Whatever is it I suspect it's a show invention.

Hodor in the books is not the same age as Brandon/Ned, he's more Theon/Robb's age. For one thing in the appendix of AGOT he's referred to as a "stableboy", not a "stablehand", which implies he's was only a boy. He's also Old Nan's great-grandson, now we know she's old but probably not supernatural old, and old enough to have a great-grandson in the forties would be almost supernatural old.

Furthermore I'm pretty sure there is a line somewhere in ACOK referring to Hodor as still growing taller and stronger.  All of which adds up to the idea that Hodor is still a growing young men.

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I don't believe that stableboy is age defined. It can be used for a man, too.

In the world where it's common that women have their first child at 15, it's quite possible that Nan could be Hodor's great-grandmother. Let's say 35 (Hodor's age) + 15 (his mother's/father's minimal age) + 15 (granma/grandpa) + 15 (Nan herself) = voila, she's only around 80 years old (of course, she can be older, like in her 90s). In comparison, Maester Aemon was 102, IIRC.

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That assumes that he's always the child of a first born of a firstborn of a first born.

Also there is a word for a grown up who works in the stables, a stablehand. Stableboy is not explicitly defined, but it is used to describe a boy or a young man, not a man in his middle ages.

 

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Well, according to my dictionary, "stableboy" can be used for both a man and a boy.

I am not saying that Hodor's ancestors had to be all firstborn children whose parent were 15 at the time of their birth (though it's not impossible; GRRM has done much worse with ages - see Lady Waynwood and her youngest son vs her grandson in the TWoW spoiler chapter); they could have been 20, 22, and 18, for example. It would still be believable he could be her great-grandson.

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Looked to me like Hodor was about the age I would expect him to be.

Yes, he could have been kicked by a horse. But the point of the flashback was to establish Hodor's condition as something to be explained. Ergo it is important.

Folk want to dismiss any and all evidence that doesn't fit their ToJ theory. Having to explain Hodor, too much work.

The idea Hodor is a white walker is the silliest one I have heard in a long while. Even here. There are only really two explanations likely to fit. One is that Hodor was Lyanna's squire. She would need one after all. Someone to look after the horse, etc. And Hodor was affected by Lyanna's demise.

The other explanation would be that he ran into one of the other and was scared half to death.

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I disagree that it has to be important. I think it could just be a fun detail to get fans invested in this scene. Perhaps it's important, but I come down on the side of it just being a fun moment. It also gives Kristian Nairn a good moment on the show when Bran talks to him about it and he gets to give a few meaningful hodors. This is a show with real people and sometimes they write to accommodate those actors because they like them or like what they are bringing to the role.

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On 5/2/2016 at 10:51 PM, BlackwaterPark said:

I'm not sure he ended like this just by physical brain damage. There must be a reason he keeps repeating "Hodor" and I'm guessing it has something to do with the White Walkers.

Hodor, R'hllor...

 

On 5/2/2016 at 7:24 AM, weirwood woman said:

I've always thought that 'Hodor" is a key word/name that will come into play at some point. The very fact that Wyllas keeps saying it keeps it from being lost to time. How he got to be keeper of that word/name ... yet to find out!

 

On 5/2/2016 at 2:49 PM, Quiet Sister said:

'Hodor lifted Bran as easy as if he were a bale of hay, and cradled him against his massive chest. He always smelled faintly of horses, but it was not a bad smell. His arms were thick with muscle and matted with brown hair. “Hodor,” he said again. Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name. Old Nan had cackled like a hen when Bran told her that, and confessed that Hodor’s real name was Walder. No one knew where “Hodor” had come from, she said, but when he started saying it, they started calling him by it. It was the only word he had.' From GoT, Bran's POV. Hodor is usually called 'simple' or 'simpleminded' in Bran's chapters. Cannot get more quotes now; my Kindle app is rebelling.

 

I always assumed Hodor was trying to say his name 'Walder' but his injury mangled it into 'Hodor.' The same injury also caused him to only be able to say that one half word. 

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When Ned and his siblings were young they used to play in the crypts per his book POV. That is how he knows the lower levels are collapsed. I think the scene is interesting because it seems to suggest that Hodor used to play with Ned Stark and his siblings when he was a boy. Which means he could have played with them in the crypts as well. From the books we know of the Nights King and Queen. For many years they were together, presumably as husband and wife, before being "put down" by the Lord of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall. I do not think that the leader of the Others is the Nights King from the story. He was a human man and was executed. Presumably the Nights Queen, a female Other (probably not really but that is how Old Nan described her - I think she was something else), was also killed. But as his wife she would have been a Stark So what would they have don with her? Placed her in the crypts.  I think that is what Hodor saw, some manifestation of the Nights Queen and it litterally scared the wits out of him. I suspect that the NK/NQ had at least one living child when they were killed from which the Starks are all descended and also why the Starks went from being Lords of Winterfell to the Kings of Winter (by lineal descent from the original Queen of Winter). I also think that the crypts of Winterfell are where the Others are headed and the Wall was built to keep them from getting there. Dollars to donuts S6:E10 ends with the Wall being destroyed. We know from Mels visions that the real battle with the Others will be fought before the walls of Winterfell so I think I am solid on this.

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16 minutes ago, Minuteman said:

When Ned and his siblings were young they used to play in the crypts per his book POV. That is how he knows the lower levels are collapsed. I think the scene is interesting because it seems to suggest that Hodor used to play with Ned Stark and his siblings when he was a boy. Which means he could have played with them in the crypts as well. From the books we know of the Nights King and Queen. For many years they were together, presumably as husband and wife, before being "put down" by the Lord of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall. I do not think that the leader of the Others is the Nights King from the story. He was a human man and was executed. Presumably the Nights Queen, a female Other (probably not really but that is how Old Nan described her - I think she was something else), was also killed. But as his wife she would have been a Stark So what would they have don with her? Placed her in the crypts.  I think that is what Hodor saw, some manifestation of the Nights Queen and it litterally scared the wits out of him. I suspect that the NK/NQ had at least one living child when they were killed from which the Starks are all descended and also why the Starks went from being Lords of Winterfell to the Kings of Winter (by lineal descent from the original Queen of Winter). I also think that the crypts of Winterfell are where the Others are headed and the Wall was built to keep them from getting there. Dollars to donuts S6:E10 ends with the Wall being destroyed. We know from Mels visions that the real battle with the Others will be fought before the walls of Winterfell so I think I am solid on this.

I agree that the wall falls. But at the end of season 7 now. They got the extension by a season, remember. The horn hasn't even shown up yet in the show and hasn't been identified as such in the books.

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4 minutes ago, hallam said:

I agree that the wall falls. But at the end of season 7 now. They got the extension by a season, remember. The horn hasn't even shown up yet in the show and hasn't been identified as such in the books.

I imagine they will milk the drama of a full season of losing to an unstoppable undead horde while the south gets situated over petty squabbles over revenge and whose tail warms the IT and save the final season to resolve the great northern mystery. I don't even think there will be much warning when the Wall comes down. How could there be with everyone North of the Wall dead, undead, or evacuated? So this season will be spent getting the North in order (i.e. Ramsays demise, Sandors return, Arya likely being sent back to Westeros, Dany landing in Dorne etc, etc) and right when things seem to be going well a two minute final cut to scene of brothers walking at the wall top griping about how cold it is now that winter is finally again upon them, an odd but terrible horn sounds in the distance, rumbling, cracking, and the Wall coming completely apart as a vast horde comes out of the woods. Then the credits roll.

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