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So Hodor has Brocca's aphasia

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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:49 PM, Quiet Sister said:

'Hodor lifted Bran as easy as if he were a bale of hay, and cradled him against his massive chest. He always smelled faintly of horses, but it was not a bad smell. His arms were thick with muscle and matted with brown hair. “Hodor,” he said again. Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name. Old Nan had cackled like a hen when Bran told her that, and confessed that Hodor’s real name was Walder. No one knew where “Hodor” had come from, she said, but when he started saying it, they started calling him by it. It was the only word he had.' From GoT, Bran's POV. Hodor is usually called 'simple' or 'simpleminded' in Bran's chapters. Cannot get more quotes now; my Kindle app is rebelling.

That was right after both Bran and Rickon had their dream of Ned being down in the crypts. Could Hodor have had the same dream?

My own favorite crackpot about Hodor though:

There are actually three Brothers Clegane to match the three dogs of their arms. They are the largest men in the kingdom and their names are Gregor, Sandor and Hodor.

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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 3:15 PM, Quiet Sister said:

'“Hodor won’t go down into the crypts.” The maester had only been half listening, Bran could tell. He lifted his eye from the tube, blinking. “Hodor won’t …?”“Go down into the crypts. When I woke, I told him to take me down, to see if Father was truly there. At first he didn’t know what I was saying, but I got him to the steps by telling him to go here and go there, only then he wouldn’t go down. He just stood on the top step and said ‘Hodor,’ like he was scared of the dark, but I had a torch. It made me so mad I almost gave him a swat in the head, like Old Nan is always doing.” He saw the way the maester was frowning and hurriedly added, “I didn’t, though.”“Good. Hodor is a man, not a mule to be beaten.”'

woops, wrong quote above.

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10 hours ago, Swagwell said:

"Höðr (often anglicized as Hod, Hoder, or Hodur[1])   is a blind god and the brother of Baldr in Norse mythology. Tricked and guided by Loki, he shot the mistletoe arrow which was to slay the otherwise invulnerable Baldr.

 

According to the Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda, the goddess Frigg, Baldr's mother, made everything in existence swear never to harm Baldr, except for the mistletoe, which she found too unimportant to ask (alternatively, which she found too young to demand an oath from). The gods amused themselves by trying weapons on Baldr and seeing them fail to do any harm. Loki, the mischief-maker, upon finding out about Baldr's one weakness, made a spear from mistletoe, and helped Höðr shoot it at Baldr. In reaction to this, Odin and the giantess Rindr gave birth to Váli, who grew to adulthood within a day and slew Höðr. "

From wikipedia

 

I couldn't find any sources for Hödr being a winter related god, could anyone provide a link, plz?

What I find most remarkable about the "norse mithology"  resemblace aproach is the fact that Hödr kills his brother Baldr, whose name is usually romanized as Balder. Maybe it's just my tinfoil hat whispering to me, but translated to the books it sounds like "Hodor kills/killed Walder to me. In some versions being tricked by Loki, in others intentionally through a magic weapon brought from hell. 
What this could mean, I have no clue. Is it a methaphor meaning the GO took away Walder's wits? I don't like much the "Hodor is the real name of the GO theory", but this seems to suport it. If this was the case Benjen or Eddard could have been the unsuspected Lokis, daring Walder to adventure on the lowest leves of the crypts to his demise

...Or it could be foreshadowing for Bran taking revenge on Walder Frey through Hodor. Just my personal wish XD 

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15 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

That still doesn't account for the passage about him growing stronger. That combined with everything else paints the picture of a young man, not someone from Ned's generation.

Hm, I don't remember it.

Couldn't have Bran meant that Hodor is building up muscle from carrying him all the time?

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Ok so I went searching in the text and I think I've confirmed Hodor is a young man

AGOT CATLYN III:

"Hallis Mollen looked abashed. “Between the horses Lord Eddard took south and them we sent north to the Night’s Watch, the stalls were
half-empty. It were no great trick to hide from the stableboys. Could be Hodor saw him, the talk is that boy’s been acting queer, but simple as he is …” Hal shook his head."

Note Hodor referred to as a "boy". 

ACOK  Bran II:

The bald spot atop the maester’s head had turned red, Bran could see; if anything, Luwin was more angry than before. “A good lord
comforts and protects the weak and helpless,” he told the Freys. “I will not have you making Hodor the butt of cruel jests, do you hear me?
He’s a good-hearted lad, dutiful and obedient, which is more than I can say for either of you.”

Again Hodor referred to as a "lad"

 

.

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On 5/3/2016 at 11:32 AM, Essan said:

If the word Hodor has no particular meaning, and 'Wyllis' simply suffered an accidental knock to the head to make him as he is now, all with no relevance to the story (other than to provide Bran with a lift) it'll be one of the best red herrings in literary history.  

 

This! Perhaps it's another Gendry aspect, in a way. Not everything or everyone needs exposition and fireworks and a grand arc. Maybe some things just are what they are, like Gendry just rowing back home and eating a bowl of brown.

Then again, this is GRRM, so it's likely that Gendry is Hodor.

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Also, I find the notion of "drowning" in the warg state very interesting. It's "Inception-y", sure, but you can certainly understand how tempting it would be. That's another thing I love about GRRM's writing -- I'd imagine every human being alive would seize the opportunity to go back to a much simpler, happier time, and to a person would not want to leave it. Ever.

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1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Ok so I went searching in the text and I think I've confirmed Hodor is a young man

AGOT CATLYN III:

"Hallis Mollen looked abashed. “Between the horses Lord Eddard took south and them we sent north to the Night’s Watch, the stalls were
half-empty. It were no great trick to hide from the stableboys. Could be Hodor saw him, the talk is that boy’s been acting queer, but simple as he is …” Hal shook his head."

Note Hodor referred to as a "boy". 

ACOK  Bran II:

The bald spot atop the maester’s head had turned red, Bran could see; if anything, Luwin was more angry than before. “A good lord
comforts and protects the weak and helpless,” he told the Freys. “I will not have you making Hodor the butt of cruel jests, do you hear me?
He’s a good-hearted lad, dutiful and obedient, which is more than I can say for either of you.”

Again Hodor referred to as a "lad"

 

.

Maybe.

All that said, I find it highly unlikely that out of all characters in the series the show makers would give a backstory to Hodor, who has so far only served as a means of carrying Bran around. They may play favorites with characters, but I truly don't see what about Hodor could captivate them so much. It would be a really random choice at their part, i.e. creating mystery around Hodor.

Another option is that Hodor has an interesting backstory given to him by GRRM, and the show makers decided to mash it with young Ned, Lyanna, and Benjen due to time constrains, so they aged him up.

Another option is they still call him lad, because he's, well, simple, and they're all used to treating him as a child.

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On 3/5/2016 at 11:35 AM, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Furthermore I'm pretty sure there is a line somewhere in ACOK referring to Hodor as still growing taller and stronger.  All of which adds up to the idea that Hodor is still a growing young men.

While the average age to stop growing for men is around 18, some still grew a few inches until 21 and some even until 25. So, Hodor still growing taller, considering he's already exceptionally tall, doesn't mean he's that young. He could be as much as 25.

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6 hours ago, lojzelote said:

Maybe.

All that said, I find it highly unlikely that out of all characters in the series the show makers would give a backstory to Hodor, who has so far only served as a means of carrying Bran around. They may play favorites with characters, but I truly don't see what about Hodor could captivate them so much. It would be a really random choice at their part, i.e. creating mystery around Hodor.

Another option is that Hodor has an interesting backstory given to him by GRRM, and the show makers decided to mash it with young Ned, Lyanna, and Benjen due to time constrains, so they aged him up.

Another option is they still call him lad, because he's, well, simple, and they're all used to treating him as a child.

I think that last part is likely the case. We know Lyanna defended Howland Reed from the squires, but I feel they won't use that (very important!) part of their background and, instead, will give this bullied person a familiar face: Hodor. So, I suppose we'll see Lyanna defending Hodor in a place in which she's seen by Rhaegar, but not under a costume but as herself. I mean, she already is been see wearing pants, unlike other ladies. I doubt the "real" Lyanna was allowed to dress boyish.

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On 5/2/2016 at 0:28 AM, hallam said:

Ned may have been covering up the cause.

I dont think Ned would hurt someone until brain damage . can see maybe that benjen did for a unknown reason. Maybe hodor knows who taped lyanna and ho an for mea s two things but he just can't remember due to a bad accident or the great other

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3 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

I think that last part is likely the case. We know Lyanna defended Howland Reed from the squires, but I feel they won't use that (very important!) part of their background and, instead, will give this bullied person a familiar face: Hodor. So, I suppose we'll see Lyanna defending Hodor in a place in which she's seen by Rhaegar, but not under a costume but as herself. I mean, she already is been see wearing pants, unlike other ladies. I doubt the "real" Lyanna was allowed to dress boyish.

Can someone ride a horse comfortable with medieval skirts? I can be absolutely wrong on this, but it could simply be that Lyanna wears pants and more "boyish" jackets or something for the practical reason of riding horses

1 hour ago, NedStark2013 said:

I dont think Ned would hurt someone until brain damage . can see maybe that benjen did for a unknown reason. Maybe hodor knows who taped lyanna and ho an for mea s two things but he just can't remember due to a bad accident or the great other

I think just one bad, hard, hit might do it. "Ringing someone's head like a bell" with a hard wooden stick isn't a game if the person receiving the hit isn't wearing a helmet.

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2 hours ago, NedStark2013 said:

I dont think Ned would hurt someone until brain damage . can see maybe that benjen did for a unknown reason. Maybe hodor knows who taped lyanna and ho an for mea s two things but he just can't remember due to a bad accident or the great other

a training accident, dulled swords like the ones used by the watch or maybe he just got kicked in the head by horse,

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Im saying its sounds like something Robert Baratheon would do. Ned Allowed Hodor around his kids and such so I dont really think he just as bafoon. Ned obviously has some concern for Hodar to allow him near really young children. I am pretty Sure Hodar knew a secret or saw something to do with Lyanna. I heard a Theory someone said that maybe Hodar used too be a Warg and he Would warg into Lyanna s horse and maybe the horse was killed and thats what destroyed his mind.

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An aphasia is caused by a stroke: a person can understand just fine, but he has no control over his speech. 

An injury or diseaseon the other hand, would result in either an inability to comprehend or possibly incoherent/repetitive speech -- and maybe both.

It doesn't seem like an injury (or disease) is what happened to Hodor because he is otherwise lucid.

(Yet another possibility, of course, is some type of magic or supernatural cause.)

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The great other the walker god seems most likely. Is it possible the great other tried to kill lyanna and he used wyllis but hodar resisted and it damaged his brain.

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14 hours ago, Status Crow said:

This! Perhaps it's another Gendry aspect, in a way. Not everything or everyone needs exposition and fireworks and a grand arc. Maybe some things just are what they are, like Gendry just rowing back home and eating a bowl of brown.

Then again, this is GRRM, so it's likely that Gendry is Hodor.

Gendry's story seems to be done, it was more about Davos and establishing his character.

Let's think about this for a second...

If there is only 1 or 2 seasons of GoT left to wrap up this saga, there is no way that D&D have enough time to waste in any of these episodes. The fact that they gave Hodor/Wyllis a backstory along with Lyanna convinces me that their importance to at least Bran's POV is significant.We witnessed how fast these episodes are moving the story along ie. Jon's reserection, Balon dying, dragons being freed, etc. and this is only Ep.2! Hodor and even Meera seem to have great importance and I believe there are no red herrings in this tv series.

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3 hours ago, tmug said:

Gendry's story seems to be done, it was more about Davos and establishing his character.

Let's think about this for a second...

If there is only 1 or 2 seasons of GoT left to wrap up this saga, there is no way that D&D have enough time to waste in any of these episodes. The fact that they gave Hodor/Wyllis a backstory along with Lyanna convinces me that their importance to at least Bran's POV is significant.We witnessed how fast these episodes are moving the story along ie. Jon's reserection, Balon dying, dragons being freed, etc. and this is only Ep.2! Hodor and even Meera seem to have great importance and I believe there are no red herrings in this tv series.

I have to agree.

People want Gendry to be someone important SO badly that they'll find any reason in Westeros for him to be relevant.  (That goes for even in the books).  Gendry is a side character whose whole purpose was to help push Aryas plot forward.  He probably has a small part to play left in the books but in the TV Show, he's all but done.

Hodor could be going in one of two ways.  They could be giving him backstory simply because they have no choice (he's literally attached to Bran, so it only makes sense to give him *some* background).  Or he could actually be of something of greater importance.  As you said, the show has no time for Red Herrings, so if they are spending any sort of screen time on something, chances are it is relevant.  I *do* think there is something with Hodor going on, something deeper then him just "hitting his head".  But what that is, we'll have to wait and see.

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10 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

I think that last part is likely the case. We know Lyanna defended Howland Reed from the squires, but I feel they won't use that (very important!) part of their background and, instead, will give this bullied person a familiar face: Hodor. So, I suppose we'll see Lyanna defending Hodor in a place in which she's seen by Rhaegar, but not under a costume but as herself. I mean, she already is been see wearing pants, unlike other ladies. I doubt the "real" Lyanna was allowed to dress boyish.

That's certainly a possibility.   The Squires badly beat Wyllis, leaving him as Hodor.  

If so, I guess we will find out next week, as a flashback to that would need to occur before the ToJ.

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Do people think that GRRM thought out the entire book plot arc out in advance? Or that he didn't make changes in the series?

The big difference between show and books is that the show knew they were doing seven seasons while GRRM thought he was doing three. Back plot for Hodor probably didn't seem important.

So aging Hodor up so that his condition could have been caused by something in the backstory may have been something that would have happened in the books if GRRM had thought to make it possible.

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