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teemo

[Spoilers] Criticize without repercussion

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Sorry I'm late, got distracted. Haven't seen it yet....criticize away!

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1 minute ago, Kim Veie said:

No Dorne in this Episode, So nothing to complain about :P

Then why drop by?

Anyway, I'm going to make the same observations about the Greyjoy characters I made in the General thread.

Theon: a lot has been said about his sudden escape from shellshock. But going so far as to being capable of riding with one single horse from the outskirts of Winterhell to whatever port of his choice (any of which must have good reason to not want anything to do with an ironborn) and then sail to Pyke? With what coin? What, are you going to be a stealing eunuch, like Varys?

Balon was mad and his war doomed, true enough, but callous enough to be unconcerned about fighting to the last ironborn? When he died in the books, the WOT5K was still raging and he was in a position good enough not to push him to surrender yet. But here? He already bent the knee once, you know.

Lesbyara: not too bad, though as someone noticed upthread, what do D&D think they're doing with the pinecone remark? Throwing us a bone? Also, sister, we know you're not throwing shit to the sharks. The culprit has just been introduced, which brings us to...

Euron: sure dude, your brother looks old. Did Quellon have a lifespan around Walder Frey's order, so Balon was born to his first wife and you to his seventh? And sure, Euron is a bit over the top in the books, but having him say ALL his badass lines in just his first scene alone (to Balon alone out in the storm, no less, instead of in a political rally of sorts, where it kind of makes sense), is a good way for the show-only viewers not to get hyped, but to smell another "Dornish cheesefest" coming. Oh, and despite all the exposition dialogue, they forgot to even name him. And to finish, Euron vs Balon and Ramsay vs Roose makes TWO fucking kinslayings in one fucking episode, to add to the Dornish ones. What is realism good for, when you want to SHOCK?

Aeron: again, not named, but again, not exactly bad. It remains to be seen whether he's going to be given, you know, a personality. Or even a dialogue with Euron; you never know with GoT.

And last but not least, I'm not going to forgive my favorite Greyjoy's omission. Sure, since not!Asha can't have her storyline with Stannis anymore, let's use her for a plot specifically designed to be fulfilled by a man. Can't go wrong there, no, we'll make her be into girls! Among other things.

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I have some complaints. I'm just gonna paste what I wrote in the general thread.

Well, that was some major league bs they were trying to feed us. So, I guess besides St. Tyrion, D&D's favourite character is indeed Ramsay Sue. He is a genius, who outwits his cold, ruthless, calculating father. And how? By managing to get the northern lords on his side, Well, Karstark at least. And with the power of his charm I guess, because he has nothing else. A used-to-be bastard highborn son openly kills his father and no one bats an eye, now that's an accomplishment right there. Not only that, he's also a master tactician and strategist. But I suppose the Roose is not loose anymore, huh? And what was up with that awkward-as-hell hug? They seriously couldn't come up with a better way for Ramsay to off him? I bet they were thinking what geniouses they were because it mirrored how Roose killed Robb. Well that alone doesn't make it good, I'm sorry. And why would Roose let his guard down like that? It's even out of character for TV Roose to do so. And now that Ramsay killed his newborn brother, who will be his heir? I guess he plans on getting Sansa back to produce one, but just in case he should have let the baby live. Anyway, just like with every death on GoT nowadays, I feel sorry for the actor who did a great job with the piss poor material he was given. R.I.P. TV Roose.

On other fronts, we have Balon finally dying, killed by Euron, as suspected. What's up with relatives killing each other in the last two episodes? Does kinslaying bother no one anymore? 

Arya was fine, whatever, I liked her storyline last season, but now it seems to be going nowhere. We'll see.

Jon was resurrected, now that's a giant freaking surprise. All that hype, speculation and secrecy around his death, only to be resurrected 2 episodes in. D&D are visionaries, I'm telling you. That's quality stuff right there.

To be honest, I kinda felt like Bran, in the sense that I didn't want the flashback to stop because it looked more interesting than anything happening on the show right now.

Oh and one more thing. Am I the only one who's bothered by all the freaking recastings all the time? It just takes me out of the story completely. For exapmle, what was the point of recasting the three-eyed Raven other than having Max von Sydow to play him. The same thing happened last year with Myrcella.

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7 minutes ago, The Boastful Knight said:

 

Oh and one more thing. Am I the only one who's bothered by all the freaking recastings all the time? It just takes me out of the story completely. For exapmle, what was the point of recasting the three-eyed Raven other than having Max von Sydow to play him. The same thing happened last year with Myrcella.

It does throw me off a bit, i was also wonder when Bran and The Three Eyed raven found time to get a haircut. Not to mention the Children of The Forest got a whole new look too.

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Roose deserved better. But so do all brilliant characters when written by hacks like D&D. I guess I'm just used to it by now.

I too am bothered by the recastings. It takes me out also. The first thing I noticed was the 3-eyed raven... they didn't even try to give him long hair and a beard like the last guy. I thought it might be like the matrix where in visions, people appear differently than they do in real life. But no, just the exact same guy sitting among tree roots. No red eye, nothing. The most uncreative interpretation of Bloodraven ever. And as for that child of the forest... Ugh. Worst recasting ever. But it has been done before (the Mountain in Season 2). This new child looks like she's 30 years old acting like a kid. Maybe D&D are once again doing damage control from people saying the last girl to played Leaf was a horrible actress.

I don't know. We're talking about the creativity of a small group of people with a multi million dollar budget. They are going to do whatever they're going to do, and no amount of discussion online by true fans is ever going to change that.

This episode to me was the confirmation that you either accept the changes, or not. Regardless, there's nothing we can do about it. I used to have passion for this show, but now I feel drained and try my best to just accept and enjoy it.

 

 

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Ghost completely disappears during the taking of Castle Black. Yeah, it woulda been sweet to see him take off Alistair or Ollie's head ... but why even have him in the room to begin with. There must be a dimension where canines go whenever political correctness or budget works against them.

Anyone who makes sex jokes about the pure good victim Cersei must die. Could they have telegraphed this anymore?

Ugh. Roose dying. So lame. So boring. So predictable.

Balon dying 3 full seasons after the Leech spell. Yawn

Yet another beggar fight on the streets of Bravos without so much as anyone batting an eye. Why isn't some Bravosi kid running down the streets screaming "Cripple fight! Cripple fight!"

Why does Davos care so much about Jon Snow? Shouldn't he care more for the missing  guy who gave him land and title? Or the missing guy's daughter, who taught Davos to read? Or, really anyone other than Snow, who he's only had superficial indirect conversations with?

Yawn.

 

 

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Roose's stupidity was too much imo. How can you not see that coming Roose ??Oh, and I thought the resurrection was really boring. I would have preferred if they had made it look like it had failed and then have Jon return as they try to burn him or something. And shouldn't there be a kiss of the Red God or something, wasn't that what Thoros did?

oh and I still don't like Lyanna's hair  : ) I'm really petty today.

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Dull, plodding, lack of tension, poor sound quality, and that's just for starters.

I jotted these down as I watched.

Bran’s vision – I found it odd that this wasn’t happening in front of the weirwood - I don’t understand how this works in the showverse if it’s not by weirnet. :dunno:  Lyanna looks well on a horse (a positive) but she’s supposed to be three years younger than Ned, I believe.  Hodor is not Walder but Willas.  Why the change?  But, okay, these are nitpicks, I know, but they take you out of a scene, a bit like wondering who cuts 3EC’s hair and shaves him – and why.

And why is Bran lolling on the floor of the cave and not in roots of his own.  Odd.

Oh, a different Leaf.  Huh.

And a hinged door !!!  Before, it was just an opening, but now there is a hinged door.  I don’t get it.  I’m pretty sure the landscape was different in season 4.

Leaf says Bran won’t stay there forever.  I wonder if that’s true for the books.

Castle Black: I can’t help but wonder how those random NW men hold those nocked bows for so long. 

“Apologies for what you’re about to see” is a dumb line with no contextual sense – ha, who’d have thought! 

DRAMATIC sword draw - one must assume there’s going to be a fight sequence.  Ooo, DRAMATIC axing of door.  No, wait!  THAT’s how you break down a door!!  Wildings rush in!!  Tormund fights one Night’s Watchman and … and … what, nothing?  They just stare at each other?  One looses an arrow at Wun Wun, who smashes him against a Wall (which is great), but then – seriously – bugger all.  They couldn’t even be bothered to co-ordinate a fight sequence.  That’s just weird.

So I have to ask – as pleased as I am that Edd finally got to fetch something – why did the Wildlings come?  To what purpose?  I don’t get it.

Tavern scene: didn’t mind it to the extent it shows the derision in which Cersei is held, and this would feed into book!Kevan’s notion that Cersei is now a busted flush but it seems that is not the point of that scene.  It is to show that UnGregor will mete out violence to those bad-mouthing Cersei.  How does he know?  King’s Landing is a big place.  There must be more than one critic.  Does he have Critic-GPS?  (Well, Brienne has Stark-GPS, so why not?)

Jamie & Tommen: I have no idea what’s going on here.  The dialogue makes no sense and everything Cersei did, she apparently did for her children.  Oh really?  :bs:Pfft.

I see Myrcella’s body is still perfectly preserved.  I suppose there was an embalmer on the boat.  That’s all that can account for it.

Jamie & HS: Jonathan Pryce rocks.  That is all.

Tommen – let the hate flow through you.  *sigh*

Meereen: so fed up with Tyrion’s cock jokes.   “I drink and I know things.”  Spare me this drivel.  “Dragons are intelligent.”  Since when?

Tyrion bows to Buckbeak so of course he trusts him. *smacks head*  And he tells them a story and then they turn around a walk away from him!  Oh, come on!! :bang:

Winterhell:  Well, lookee there – the dogs and random hunter didn’t make it back after all.  They did, indeed, disappear, as we suspected.

“You’ll always be my first born.”  This is like a plague of the book!first-born.  No Domeric. :crying:

There goes Roose - you magnificent bastard.  If only you could have played Book!Roose who never would have hugged Ramsay. 

Not only is Fat Walda superwoman to be up and about so quickly after giving birth, she also has a nice manicure.

Okay, so it was no surprise that Roose, Walda and baby were murdered in this episode, but how can they manage to make these scenes so pedestrian and lacking in tension?

I'm delighted Sansa knows Arya is alive but, seriously, "He didn’t want to leave her."  "So I fought him." How come she leaves that bit out?

"It was a difficult choice."  Marry into the family-killers?  Not really.

Reek decides to go "home" even though he admitted previously Eddard Stark was more a father than his own.  Then he does a quick Aragorn rip-off. "I would have taken you all the way to the Wall.  I would have died to get you there."  They don't have an original bone in their bodies.

Pyke:

Euron actor is cheesy.

Balon Watch: and now our watch is ended.

Salt throne.  WTF? 

(I can’t help but laugh that they’re re-visiting all these arcs from AFFC and ADWD when last season we were told by showpologists it was "cutting the fat".)

Back to the Wall:

Davos asking Mel to resurrect Jon makes no sense whatsoever.  Why would he?  No reason that I can think of.  They have no established relationship.  Tormund or Edd don't say he’s necessary to bind forces against the Others – nothing!  Asking her to resurrect Stannis would make more sense.

And why doesn’t she do the ritual Thoros told her about?  The kiss and the words – we saw it and heard it.  Why is she doing something completely different?

And where is the salt and smoke?

Ghost! :wub:

Jon wakes.  No suspense at all.

No bewbs this ep, so that’s a plus.

 

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The biggest thing that stuck out to me in this episode was how Jon was resurrected.  Talk about anti-climactic.  I was expecting some sort of glitz and glamour.  Maybe a fire.  Or maybe Mel taking her own life to do it.  Or something.  Instead, all we get is a haircut, a few chanting(s), and then everyone leaves the room.  I don't know, could of been better, I suppose.

Oh, another thing...Aryas plot arc is going nowhere...and fast.  She's starting to feel way too disconnected from the main story line that I just don't know where her arc is going.  Two episodes in, and all we got was blind stick fighting.  

 

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Only 2 minutes of arya to show us the stupid stick

Only 3 minutes of Sansa to show us a hug with theon

no danny

tyrion is tyrion as usual, the badass, the Super, the genuis, the marysue, Saint Tyrion

Almost the whole episode was about Jon, are they forgetting the other stories and tranforming the show to Jon's snow adventures?

 

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5 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Okay, so it was no surprise that Roose, Walda and baby were murdered in this episode, but how can they manage to make these scenes so pedestrian and lacking in tension?

I came in here to say just that. In a show with magic, dragons, giant wolves parricide and infanticide, resurrection, incest, and murders all around, did I want to go to sleep? It's not bad; it's boring! Which is worse than bad, really. Season 5 was bad, but this wasn't even holding my attention through the next egregiosity. 

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Well, that was disappointing, and St Tyrion & Super Ramsay were both equally irritating. Couldn't Tyrion at least have the decency to carry out Quentyn's arc properly?

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Could have seen this coming from a long way off with the way Roose has always been treated as something of an afterthought on the show: shoehorned in out of nowhere in S2, they made sure he was around to play his part of stabbing Robb in S3, after which he became a background character in Ramsay's hero journey in the North. It's hard to think of a more out-of-character way for Roose to go out...as with Shireen's burning, maybe this is an echo of something that happens in TWOW, but I can't imagine it going down in remotely the same way. I sense the brilliant hand of D&D at work.

And I hate that they're now having to circle back to more AFFC shit that should have been dealt with before.. (Kingsmoot? Euron? Really?) I know it's written in the laws of the universe that we can get no more than 10 episodes, but maybe some of this could have made it into S4 or S5 instead of boobz, Asha storming the Dreadfort, crushing beetles, more boobiez, etc. Oh look, they remembered there are other Northern lords too...

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So Jon is back .................... and that was that, no coma dreams - no insight no reason for him to be dead and back again, apparently nothing learned nothing gained, so what's the next stop for the hype train. Winds of Winter please. This isn't cutting it for me. It's very watery gravy I want something thick and meaty not this diluted oxo cube.

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Something that keeps bothering me (and even though it started last episode, it was felt even more in this one) is that Davos is totally cool with Melisandre and now even asks her for help. And while he did see her do some successful stuff, the way the show set it up, he also did see a lot of her stuff fail recently (in the show the leeches as far as they know are only 2 out of 3, the visions of Stannis taking Winterfell incorrect and while it's unsure what about the Shireen thing is known to Davos, she at least left Stannis and his family without doing any fancy magic that actually helped.

It's kind of like: "Hey, I saw you doing some weird magic at some point and while lots of it hasn't worked recently I was still wondering if there is any chance that you can resurrect this guy that I recently met and that I should probably care less about than that royal family I used to be with and that just recently died. But either I don't know that you actually burned Shireen for no good reason or I didn't bother to even ask why you abandoned them all without doing anything with that cool magic stuff that I now believe you can do, but hey let's just be buddies again and help each other out, cool?"

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It's hilarious that Balon was confirmed as the sole survivor of the War of Five Kings. "We used to have one king, then five. Now we have one again!" But no, seriously, people can complain about AFFC/ADWD's structure (though Martin didn't write this to be adapted on-screen imo), but I don't see how anyone can think that forgetting Balon for 3 seasons and then bringing him back was structurally better.

The Kingsmoot is apparently "the law", gosh, Yara, don't you know anything!

The Bran flashback (which focused on Hodor Tyrell) was obviously setup for the inevitable R+L=J reveal (next week, perhaps? Jon's already back, so why not).

Everything about the Jon resurrection was so cliché I don't even know where to begin.

Cersei continues to be the most sympathetic character on the show. Marg being a straight ally is still the worst crime in the world. 

That Brienne/Sansa conversation could be okay, if not for acknowledging the illogic of the previous seasons.

Walda gives birth, because they already used their gratuitous pregnant woman death in S3, so we need a shocking newborn baby death. That's 3 legitimate houses killed off 3 episodes in a row! ShocksTM every episode! 

Tyrion has Dany's Meereen plotline, guess D&D need to backtrack so their post-ADWD fanfic stuff actually makes "sense". Gotta love him patronising literal genius and long-time resident of Slaver's Bay, Missandei. The dragons like Tyrion because who wouldn't. (I could actually expect D&D to make A+J=T canon though...)

 

 

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The way they built up the stand-off at Castle Black during the trailers I was expecting a reasonably epic fight scene with a few named characters dying whether they be "good" or "bad" but instead we get everyone laying down their weapons and Wun Wun smashing a single guy against a wall. 

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