Can regicide be so easy?

[GOTFanatic]

Title says it all. Ramsay slaying his father Roose, and Euron slaying his brother Balon. If regicide was easy to get away with, I doubt kingdoms would even exist. Come to think of it this is the same issue I've had with the show for awhile. Why aren't these noble folk better gaurded? You have Tyrion kidnapped from an inn, Loras taken in Kingslanding then jailed, Margaery imprisoned. Is this how Martin wrote the books? 

[The Onion Kniggit]

In a nutshell when you see something on Game of Thrones that is nonsensical, poorly-written, laughably bad or cringe-worthy. There is a 99% chance that was not written by GRRM....

[Hol Horse]

The answer to your question is no.

[Bastard of the Dreadfort]

43 minutes ago, The Onion Kniggit said:

In a nutshell when you see something on Game of Thrones that is nonsensical, poorly-written, laughably bad or cringe-worthy. There is a 99% chance that was not written by GRRM....

This ^

[SamuelVimes]

In the books, being a kinslayer is also a pretty horrible thing--at least as hard a thing to overcome in the public view as being a kingslayer. The show seems to have blithely ignored this, given how these folks are also perfectly willing to kill their own family, kings or not, in the public view. (I mean, it's one thing to poison them, what with plausible deniability and all, but stabbing 'em in public like they did in Dorne--where they have tons of poisons??) 

Given that Martin isn't writing any of this season's episodes, I suspect we're in for a bit of a rough ride. 

[GeorgeIAF]

Ramsay and Euron don't care for all the kinslayer bullshit.

[Clash]

16 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Ramsay and Euron don't care for all the kinslayer bullshit.

There was an implication in the books that Euron had Balon killed by a faceless man. The fact that having been exiled by Balon, he turns up very shortly afterwards would also imply that he knew Balon would be dead.

Ramsay killing Roose is new. However if Fat Walda has a boy, Ramsay would know that his future as heir to the Boltons would be gone. I suspect Ramsay wouldn't think twice about making sure that wouldn't happen.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

10 minutes ago, Clash said:

There was an implication in the books that Euron had Balon killed by a faceless man. The fact that having been exiled by Balon, he turns up very shortly afterwards would also imply that he knew Balon would be dead.

Ramsay killing Roose is new. However if Fat Walda has a boy, Ramsay would know that his future as heir to the Boltons would be gone. I suspect Ramsay wouldn't think twice about making sure that wouldn't happen.

I  could see Euron hiring a faceless man being simplified into Euron doing it himself for  the show. Makes for a nice intro.  And yeah it's possible  Ramsay pulls  something similar   to this scene in the book, albeit maybe not infront of people who could   one day turn on him.

[Stag_legion]

6 minutes ago, Tall Tyrion Lannister! said:

I  could see Euron hiring a faceless man being simplified into Euron doing it himself for  the show. Makes for a nice intro.  And yeah it's possible  Ramsay pulls  something similar   to this scene in the book, albeit maybe not infront of people who could   one day turn on him.

I think Roose will outlive Ramsay in the books.

The show has changed this because they are obsessed with Ramasy and want a Snowbowl.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

26 minutes ago, Clash said:

Ramsay killing Roose is new. However if Fat Walda has a boy, Ramsay would know that his future as heir to the Boltons would be gone. I suspect Ramsay wouldn't think twice about making sure that wouldn't happen.

The problem is that Roose would have to be a blithering idiot not to anticipate Ramsay being a threat to him and Lil' Roosey. Whenever D&D want to kill someone off, they first make them act like a moron. It's easier than writing a good scene.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

1st episode - Prince of Dorne gets killed - no one blinks an eye.

2nd episode - King in the North gets killed - no on blinks an eye.

They are consistent in their bullshit.

[Clash]

11 minutes ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

The problem is that Roose would have to be a blithering idiot not to anticipate Ramsay being a threat to him and Lil' Roosey. Whenever D&D want to kill someone off, they first make them act like a moron. It's easier than writing a good scene.

He still treats Ramsay like an idiot though. He had just firmly shut the door on Ramsay's idea to storm Castle Black for lack of subtlety and downright stupidity. He seems to feel that Ramsay his happy to take the occasional crumb thrown him and come back for more. Would he see that kind of person as a direct threat to himself? Even if he believes that Ramsay could become a threat, Would he believe it likely that it would come right then when the baby is not going to be of any consequence for years?

[Jon Snow Bengal]

18 minutes ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

The problem is that Roose would have to be a blithering idiot not to anticipate Ramsay being a threat to him and Lil' Roosey. Whenever D&D want to kill someone off, they first make them act like a moron. It's easier than writing a good scene.

Agree.

So has Ramsey now lost the Freys by killing fat Walda. Even if he says he didn't do it himself they don't have anything tying them together anymore.

Ramsay is now free to attack Castle Black if he wants to.

[Bluetiger]

3 hours ago, GOTFanatic said:

Title says it all. Ramsay slaying his father Roose, and Euron slaying his brother Balon. If regicide was easy to get away with, I doubt kingdoms would even exist. Come to think of it this is the same issue I've had with the show for awhile. Why aren't these noble folk better gaurded? You have Tyrion kidnapped from an inn, Loras taken in Kingslanding then jailed, Margaery imprisoned. Is this how Martin wrote the books? 

In the books Tyrion has few Lannister guards with him, who escorted him to the Wall, but Catelyn and Ser Rodrik ask Bracken soldiers, few sellswords, Frey and Whent men for help in arresting him. Lannister men are outnumbered and Tyrion surrenders.

Loras

 isn't arrested by the Faith, but commands Tyrell-Lannister army during siege of Dragonstone where he is wounded

Margaery

is imprisoned as result of Cersei's plot. Many men are accused of sleeping with here, including Ser Osney Kettleblack(who cofesses toadultery) Redwyne twins and other court members. Her cousins are also charged with treason. She is arrested by Lannister/Warrior's son in the Red Keep and is taken to Sept of Baeor to wait for trial. In the books Warrior's Sons are a knightly order, consisting of many knights and warriors from the Realm. They are well-trained and organised. In the books other orders of the Faith Militant, Poor Fellows and Sparrows, consist of commoners and poor peopleof King's Landing. Tyrell guards can't do anything as Margaery is accused of treason, adultery and  man known as Blue Bard and Ser Osney confessed to everything.

Ramsay doesn't kill Roose , at least so far, in the books, and it's hinted that Roose knows that Ramsay might betray him, as he says to Reek  "Breathe deep. I know what he said. You're to spy on me and keep his secrets." Bolton chuckled. "As if he had secrets. Sour  Alyn, Luton, Skinner, and the rest, where does he think they came from? Can he truly believe they are his men?".

and  "Why? The way you smell is my son's doing, not your own. I am well aware of that." 

and  

 

"Ramsay killed him. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison. In the Vale, Domeric had enjoyed the company of Redfort's sons. He wanted a brother by his side, so he rode up the Weeping Water to seek my bastard out. I forbade it, but Domeric was a man grown and thought that he knew better than his father. Now his bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?"

The question frightened him. Once he had heard Skinner say that the Bastard had killed his trueborn brother, but he had never dared to believe it. He could be wrong. Brothers die sometimes, it does not mean that they were killed. My brothers died, and I never killed them. "My lord has a new wife to give him sons."

"And won't my bastard love that? Lady Walda is a Frey, and she has a fertile feel to her. I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing. If she pops out sons the way she pops in tarts, the Dreadfort will soon be overrun with Boltons. Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though."

 

[Clash]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

Agree.

So has Ramsey now lost the Freys by killing fat Walda. Even if he says he didn't do it himself they don't have anything tying them together anymore.

Ramsay is now free to attack Castle Black if he wants to.

Ramsay doesn;t appear to give a damn. He seems to think that he can kill and bully his way through anything, so he probably has a significant re-education in his future. If killing Walda has lost him the Freys (and there's a family that pay their debts ), attacking Castle Black should isolate him further,. Book or show, he really is quite stupid. Cunning maybe, but his emotional intelligence wouldn't fill a thimble. Whatever happens as a result of his actions will be a complete surprise to him I'd imagine.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

20 minutes ago, Clash said:

He still treats Ramsay like an idiot though. He had just firmly shut the door on Ramsay's idea to storm Castle Black for lack of subtlety and downright stupidity. He seems to feel that Ramsay his happy to take the occasional crumb thrown him and come back for more. Would he see that kind of person as a direct threat to himself? Even if he believes that Ramsay could become a threat, Would he believe it likely that it would come right then when the baby is not going to be of any consequence for years?

Roose may not think much of Ramsay's intelligence, but he has no reason to underestimate Ramsay's viciousness. Roose is simply smarter than that, IMO

And male babies who are the heirs of lords are consequential the moment they take their first breath.

It's certainly in character for Ramsay to try to kill Roose, but Roose should have expected it. It still could have happened, but D&D should have had Ramsay do it in a more clever way.

[jbob]

Yes. It's a believe system. Nothing more. Once you stop believing in those traditions, those traditions have no power. It's like the firing of Barristan Selmy. Once that was done, it basically opened the floodgates. Think back on Varys' riddle. Most of the people doing the kinslaying are people who don't care.

[Jedi Renee]

37 minutes ago, Clash said:

Ramsay doesn;t appear to give a damn. He seems to think that he can kill and bully his way through anything, so he probably has a significant re-education in his future. If killing Walda has lost him the Freys (and there's a family that pay their debts ), attacking Castle Black should isolate him further,. Book or show, he really is quite stupid. Cunning maybe, but his emotional intelligence wouldn't fill a thimble. Whatever happens as a result of his actions will be a complete surprise to him I'd imagine.

I hope wun wun rag doll's him 

[Xcorpyo001]

25 minutes ago, Jedi Renee said:

I hope wun wun rag doll's him 

 

Ahhh, to be young and optimistic.

If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention.

The thing is D&D like Ramsay. And it's a realistic show, so bad guys always win. See Hitler and Bin Laden for example. Oh wait.

Yes, Jon will fight Ransay, and Wun Wun will probably face Ramsay in battle. Right before he is kiled with one shot by the great Ramsay and his Purple Magical Bow of Instant Death. 

Even if Jon wins, he needs to always have to lose somenthing precious to him, while bad guys always die only in the last part of the story . Because realism. And D&D's boner for Ramsay. I hope I'm wrong, but deep down I know I'm right. 

[ummester]

OP - in case you haven't noticed we have been watching a society falling apart over the last 5 seasons. Westeros is crumbling and it's values are falling by the wayside.

LCs are slain, regicide is becoming more common, the faith militant is rising and so on. It is a story of the fall of a human empire in a fantasy universe so of course the illegal and immoral things will increase as the plot progresses. Cannibalism should be rife before the show is out.