Tower of Joy is next episode.

[Xarkar]

19 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

Was Dawn ever even mentioned in the show to this point?  Heck, outside of Longclaw and ICE, where *any* other Valyrian Steel Swords mentioned as of yet?  (Serious question, as I'm more book-reader then show-watcher).

Even if they introduce Dawn in the battle, what impact would it have in the grand scheme of things?  Probably little to none.  So chances are they won't waste budget on something that serves no purpose to the bottom line.  I could be wrong though, but I think people should brace themsevles to be disappointed.

The biggest thing I want to see if just *how* did Arthur Dayne die?  Will they keep true to the books with HR saving Ned at the last moment?

Ice, Longclaw, Dagger used to try and kill Bran, Oathkeeper, Widows Wail,

 

Also, keep in mind Dawn is not a Valyrian steel sword.  It is the sword forged out of a fallen star.

Oh and according to the Wiki "Joffery read about Dawn in season 4 when reading about Arthur Dayne.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

The Door seems like a symbolic when Ned or Bran will open the door to her chamber at TOJ: Other one is Night's King coming through the door in Bloodraven's/COTF cave. Very interesting idea. One of the meanings for the title of this episode. Home had multiple meanings. Theon getting home, Euron being back at home, Ramsay taking control over his current home, Bran visiting home.

 

I agree with the statement about Rhaegar. I would add even Robert to it. To show how obsessed he was over Lyanna and jealous over Rhaegar. But more important Rhaegar and Lyanna to show what he was like and nature of their relationship...last season we were offered two version one by Sansa basically describing him as a rapist and kidnapper...or Barristan Selmy with loving, caring Rhaegar who never enjoyed killing but singing. It would feel kinda empty with just Winterfell flashback and then TOJ flashbacks with fighting and then reveal with a promise from Ned.

[RhaenysBee]

Just now, DireGhost said:

Yes, this is actually exactly what I expect. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I expect it.

Oh god no, that would destroy me for life. Or not for life, but for that day certainly. That reveal is supposed to be part of my treat after all the weeks of torture the education system inflicted on me, if there's no Rhaegar I will riot. 

[Maxxine]

1 hour ago, Ravness said:

I feel like this is one of the issues the show has - they haven't really alluded much to past events that TV viewers probably don't remember or care for enigmatic characters like Lyanna. Though that could be more of an issue in the difference of media - it's much easier to talk about these characters in the books through inner monologue and such.

I kind of feel like this too. I feel like the Winterfell flashback and TOJ is probably only interesting to book readers and show watchers who have researched things that have happened in the books. The show has not touched on these events at all I don't think. Maybe Robert mentioned Rhaegar once. But as far as the overall mystery of the Rebellion and Rhaegar/Lyanna, it's been lost in the show. This is not a criticism because it would have been difficult to explain this through the tv, just a fact. I'm actually surprised they're going that deep into it now since they haven't really alluded to it before.

[RhaenysBee]

30 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

I kind of feel like this too. I feel like the Winterfell flashback and TOJ is probably only interesting to book readers and show watchers who have researched things that have happened in the books. The show has not touched on these events at all I don't think. Maybe Robert mentioned Rhaegar once. But as far as the overall mystery of the Rebellion and Rhaegar/Lyanna, it's been lost in the show. This is not a criticism because it would have been difficult to explain this through the tv, just a fact. I'm actually surprised they're going that deep into it now since they haven't really alluded to it before.

I agree that it got a little lost, but it would have been pretty problematic to spend five seasons shooting non-sense flashbacks and memories (as it's only now they are being tied together and revealing the secret). The topic was neglected for seasons 2-3, but they did attempt to pick up on it in seasons 4-5, imo. Oberyn mentioned Rhaegar in connection with Elia and Sansa and Littlefinger discussed Lyanna in season 5 too. Daario have Daenerys a blue rose, so they even dropped that symbol. And Barristan spoke of Rhaegar as well. Even though the Robert's Rebellion story is very vague in the show, they made an effort to keep the Lyanna Rhaegar stuff in the air, even if it never got the emphasis the books give it. 

As for the audience, I don't usually discuss the show with people who hadn't read the books because they can't remember stuff like Sansa's name and that gives me a headache as well as an insecure feeling of overly geekiness, but there have been quite a few appearances of the most famous fan theory of game of thrones on social media, so I think if someone is interested enough, they will have picked up. And if someone watches a show and can't remember a lead character's name, there's really nothing anybody can do for them. 

[Clash]

1 hour ago, Maxxine said:

I kind of feel like this too. I feel like the Winterfell flashback and TOJ is probably only interesting to book readers and show watchers who have researched things that have happened in the books. The show has not touched on these events at all I don't think. Maybe Robert mentioned Rhaegar once. But as far as the overall mystery of the Rebellion and Rhaegar/Lyanna, it's been lost in the show. This is not a criticism because it would have been difficult to explain this through the tv, just a fact. I'm actually surprised they're going that deep into it now since they haven't really alluded to it before.

If Rhaegar is Jon's father then it's important on the show. Apart from being a vindication for Ned Stark, Jon being a Targaryen has to be of significance in a show that's put a lot of emphasis on the Targaryen history and the familty itself. Right from season 1 we've been told that they are the rightful rulers of Westeros (at least in the minds of some) and the implication of the war is that lesser families aren't up to the task because they have lost sight of who the real enemy is.

[Ingelheim]

4 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

I know, but you aren't telling me they will do an R+L=J reveal without showing those two together, are you?  

I'm kind of expecting to see Lyanna's kidnap/elope at the very least, if not some Tourney of Harrenhal too.  

I think we won't see Rhaegar. I think the scene will be pretty close to the book one; the dialogue Martin wrote for that part was brilliant, and it seems D&D liked it as well. Let's hope.

I believe the scene will end with Ned talking to a dying Lyanna abour Rhaegar and everything, holding a baby on his arms, and naming him Jon.

[RhaenysBee]

30 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

I think we won't see Rhaegar. I think the scene will be pretty close to the book one; the dialogue Martin wrote for that part was brilliant, and it seems D&D liked it as well. Let's hope.

I believe the scene will end with Ned talking to a dying Lyanna abour Rhaegar and everything, holding a baby on his arms, and naming him Jon.

This makes me really sad. But then, it's probably better than a horrible Rhaegar because someone F'ed up casting. 

About Jon's name... I'd like to think it was Ned alone who named the child and Lyanna has nothing to do with Jon. (isn't Jon named after Jon Arryn anyways?) in my mind, Lyanna would never give such a generic and lame name to Rhaegar's son, that name screams Ned Stark. Just how awful does Jon Targaryen sound? 

[Lord Friendzone]

4 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

This makes me really sad. But then, it's probably better than a horrible Rhaegar because someone F'ed up casting. 

About Jon's name... I'd like to think it was Ned alone who named the child and Lyanna has nothing to do with Jon. (isn't Jon named after Jon Arryn anyways?) in my mind, Lyanna would never give such a generic and lame name to Rhaegar's son, that name screams Ned Stark. Just how awful does Jon Targaryen sound? 

Yes, he is. Jon Targaryen sounds normal but question is they were married and if we se hints or clues to it.

[Nami]

5 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Hodor was good enough, made me think of how much I miss Hot Pie, but kid Lyanna ate up all my attention. I was not impressed with the casting. 

My biggest fear is the casting because who wants to spend a massive amount of money to find the suitable people for a two-minute role... I totally get that. But casting uni is the number one way to fuck up the scene. 

I personally don't give an F about Dawn and whatever weapon Arthur Dayne uses, but please please please please please can we have a decent Rhaegar and Lyanna? 

I'm perfectly fine with that (in fact probably in favor of that over having the reveal about Lyanna being Jon's mother right next episode), just give me a good Lyanna. I will sacrifice a bowl of chocolate pudding to every God, just let us have a good Lyanna and Rhaegar. 

This actress 

http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ania-279x300.jpg

was cast for this season and people were suspecting that she might be the older Lyanna
For Rhaegar, I don't think he will show up

[RhaenysBee]

28 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Yes, he is. Jon Targaryen sounds normal but question is they were married and if we se hints or clues to it.

I don't like how it sounds, but that's my problem really. Anyways, I don't think they will make a hint issue out of this on the show, if they were married, we will find out from the dialogue in the flashback. And if they weren't, someone will legitimize Jon as a Stark or a Targaryen at some point anyways. (or not. Maybe he'll stick with his bastard identity because it grew on him and stay with the night's watch) 

 

Nami, that actress is Ania Bukstein and she plays the new red priestess named Kinvara 

[Ser Greenseer]

3 hours ago, Clash said:

If Rhaegar is Jon's father then it's important on the show. Apart from being a vindication for Ned Stark, Jon being a Targaryen has to be of significance in a show that's put a lot of emphasis on the Targaryen history and the familty itself. Right from season 1 we've been told that they are the rightful rulers of Westeros (at least in the minds of some) and the implication of the war is that lesser families aren't up to the task because they have lost sight of who the real enemy is.

The Targs have had literally no involvement with the white walkers, and don't even know about them. So you could say they haven't lost sight of the real enemy because they never saw them in the first place. 

[Lord Friendzone]

12 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

I don't like how it sounds, but that's my problem really. Anyways, I don't think they will make a hint issue out of this on the show, if they were married, we will find out from the dialogue in the flashback. And if they weren't, someone will legitimize Jon as a Stark or a Targaryen at some point anyways. (or not. Maybe he'll stick with his bastard identity because it grew on him and stay with the night's watch) 

Lyanna and Rhaegar probably intended different name for him, more like for a Targaryen. Aemon sounds cool and we have clues to it in the books, Viserys, Viserion, Daeron. Jon is good. He might resent to be either Stark or Targaryen only to remain Snow for the rest of his life. Let actions speak volumes instead of his name. As it was he might remain silent man in the shadow forever condemned and dare not to speak his true name.

Legitimizing Jon? Would he accept that or even needed it? Not everybody would respect that, people in the North would respect him being called Stark but in the south no, not without a royal decree. Of course in he war against white walkers nobody will give a damn about his surname.

[Nami]

If Rhaegar and Lyanna married I think only Martin knows. We don't know if D&D are aware of such details or even if they will follow them

[Lord Friendzone]

13 minutes ago, Nami said:

This actress 

http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ania-279x300.jpg

was cast for this season and people were suspecting that she might be the older Lyanna
For Rhaegar, I don't think he will show up

Ania Bukstein. She's playing someone else.

[RhaenysBee]

2 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Lyanna and Rhegar probably intended different name for him, more like for a Targaryen. Aemon sounds cool and we have clues to it in the books, Viserys, Viserion, Daeron. Jon is ordinary but it serves.

Legitimizing Jon? Would he accept that? Not everybody would respect that, people in the North would respect him being called Stark but inthe south no, not without royal decree.

Not necessarily, it would be quite a Jon thing to insist on remaining Jon Snow because he's so humble like that. But Stannis offered him a stark name and I don't see why He wouldn't be offered such again by whoever has that kind of power in the end (it might as well be Jon himself ). 

Anyhow, Aemon was quite remorseful about giving up his family for the NW which could foreshadow that Jon might not be making that same "mistake" at the end of the day and come into his Stark/Targaryen heritage. 

[dooog]

Call me a pessimist / realist but I have full faith D&D will butcher this much loved sequence. Maybe even throw in a bit of Ned putting a pillow over Lyanna's head - kinslaying is so hot right now!

 

As for Dawn, it would be a nice touch if we got the proper sword of the morning but the previews suggest otherwise.

[Miley the Monstrous]

18 minutes ago, Nami said:

If Rhaegar and Lyanna married I think only Martin knows. We don't know if D&D are aware of such details or even if they will follow them

Surely that's an important enough detail that it came up when Martin told DnD what happens in the rest of the series. 

[Nami]

If they ruin Lyanna I will kill a bitch

I liked child!Lyanna though

[RhaenysBee]

2 minutes ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

Surely that's an important enough detail that it came up when Martin told DnD what happens in the rest of the series. 

I agree. And if Martin held back that info (which I don't think he did) D&D can just as well do whatever they like and make them married or not married. Or so I think and so I would do in their place if such was the case. 

There's this urban legend that the first time D&D sat down with Martin he asked them who Jon Snow's mother was to test if they were up to the job or not, and they got it right. So I'm assuming this is vital enough that Martin discussed the necessary details with them. 

I was quite unhappy with child Lyanna :S Tried to find out if she was related to either Conleth Hill or Dave Hill, but my internet stalking skills failed me. Not that it matters, I didn't like her.