Tower of Joy is next episode.

[ummester]

Those who want to see Rhaegar - why? Isn't it better to leave his character enigmatic?

Some love him, some hate him - some think he was a romantic and others think he took advantage of Lyanna, some even think Lyanna is a home wrecker that took advantage of him. It's best that way, not quite knowing - especially for the future development of Dany and Jon, so we, as an audience, can sympathise with them never fully understanding their brother/father.

[lancerman]

5 hours ago, Maxxine said:

I kind of feel like this too. I feel like the Winterfell flashback and TOJ is probably only interesting to book readers and show watchers who have researched things that have happened in the books. The show has not touched on these events at all I don't think. Maybe Robert mentioned Rhaegar once. But as far as the overall mystery of the Rebellion and Rhaegar/Lyanna, it's been lost in the show. This is not a criticism because it would have been difficult to explain this through the tv, just a fact. I'm actually surprised they're going that deep into it now since they haven't really alluded to it before.

They mentioned it plenty when it made sense to. One of the first scenes was Robert and Ned going into he the crypt and him crying about her being there. They added a famous scene between Robert and Cersie so he could cry about how much he loved Lyanna. Cersie brought up how literally the entire conflict of the show was a result of Robert saying Lyanna's name on their wedding night. Robert mentioned that he dreams about killing Rheagar every night. Robert having a hard on for wanting to kill Targaryen's was also ever present iin the first season. Jorah gave the whole "Rheagar died" speeched. Bran briefly describes the events leading up to the Rebellion to Osha in the crypts. Oberyn describes how "noble" Rheagar left Elia for another women and how that started a war. The Dorne storyline constantly brought up the death of Elia and the two Tararyan children. Sansa and Littlefinger in the crypt was an added scene to describe the Harrenhall tourney and heavily forshadowed the whole Rheagar being a kidnapping rapist wasn't all that true. That same episode has Barristan describe how wonderful and honorable Rheagar was to the poor in King's Landing. It might have even been the same episode last season, or really close to that episode, where Stannis mentions that fathering a son out of wedlock was "not Ned Stark's way".

It's just a limitation of the show that you aren't going to beaten over the head with it with inner monolgues talking about past events and that the narrative spreads it out very far apart. It's hard when the two most relevant characters to it die in the first season. I'd venture to say 99% of the theory was Ned's monologues in the first book. It's really the one book in the series where the ENTIRE context of the main plot and motivations of Ned is entirely changed when you plug that into the framework.

Normally I'm not a fan of flashbacks.... but I think this reveal might merit a lot of it to really drive the point home that this has ALWAYS been in the background.

[RhaenysBee]

5 minutes ago, ummester said:

Those who want to see Rhaegar - why? Isn't it better to leave his character enigmatic?

Some love him, some hate him - some think he was a romantic and others think he took advantage of Lyanna, some even think Lyanna is a home wrecker that took advantage of him. It's best that way, not quite knowing - especially for the future development of Dany and Jon, so we, as an audience, can sympathise with them never fully understanding their brother/father.

Ah, because I'm hopelessly cheesy. You totally have a point and it's probably better to not see Rhaegar than to see him screwed up. But I'm a sucker for romantic stories about star struck lovers and one of those people who think he was romantic. And even though we never directly saw Rhaegar in the books either, he is up there among my top three asoiaf crushes and of course I want to see him on screen. I'm so sad. And definintely a thirteen-year-old at heart. 

[Lord Friendzone]

17 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

I agree. And if Martin held back that info (which I don't think he did) D&D can just as well do whatever they like and make them married or not married. Or so I think and so I would do in their place if such was the case. 

There's this urban legend that the first time D&D sat down with Martin he asked them who Jon Snow's mother was to test if they were up to the job or not, and they got it right. So I'm assuming this is vital enough that Martin discussed the necessary details with them. 

I was quite unhappy with child Lyanna :S Tried to find out if she was related to either Conleth Hill or Dave Hill, but my internet stalking skills failed me. Not that it matters, I didn't like her. 

Really? I thought she was good. What was that you didn't like about her? That she seems older than Ned or her looks? Not enough looking like Jon or Arya.

[Nami]

45 minutes ago, ummester said:

Those who want to see Rhaegar - why? Isn't it better to leave his character enigmatic?

Some love him, some hate him - some think he was a romantic and others think he took advantage of Lyanna, some even think Lyanna is a home wrecker that took advantage of him. It's best that way, not quite knowing - especially for the future development of Dany and Jon, so we, as an audience, can sympathise with them never fully understanding their brother/father.

I agree. Even though I would love to see some Rhaegar and Lyanna scenes and the nature of their relationship, the risk of the casting going wrong is very high

[WolfQueenArya]

I cannot wait for the Tower of Joy scene next episode! I am really excited for it!

[Igziabeher]

7 hours ago, Xarkar said:

Ice, Longclaw, Dagger used to try and kill Bran, Oathkeeper, Widows Wail,

 

Also, keep in mind Dawn is not a Valyrian steel sword.  It is the sword forged out of a fallen star.

Oh and according to the Wiki "Joffery read about Dawn in season 4 when reading about Arthur Dayne.

 

Darksister was mentioned by Arya when she was at Harrenhall with Tywin.

[King Onion Knight]

I can see them splitting the ToJ into 2 episodes. We may see the fighting next week, but what follows it at a later episode. Remember what the Three Eyed Raven said this week to Bran.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

9 hours ago, mattnj81 said:

I don't know what episode, but I think you're right about Ned's promise coming in a separate episode from the fight itself.

That could be why they included the part where raven pulled bran out just as it was getting interesting to him. 

He sees the fight then gets pulled out right before the important part. 

[Trogdor Targaryen]

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Really? I thought she was good. What was that you didn't like about her? That she seems older than Ned or her looks? Not enough looking like Jon or Arya.

The important part to me is it almost seems reminiscent of when we first see Arya in the show. 

[Ser Creighton]

It's tough to say if the show goes past the outside shots for Tower of Joy, this season. It may, I don't know. The reason that it is tough to tell is because of Cordelia Hill, at no point can I find where she was ever listed as a cast member until just very recently. Of course she played young Lyanna, who we just met. Which means Rhaegar and Lyanna may be cast and not listed, even under unkown.

You could get someone screaming "Ned!" But the theme is Oathbreaker right? At least the title is, and that can play into several parts pf the story as Home did. Theon going home, Euron returning home, Bran visiting home, everyone from Hardhome, well almost everyone.

So, KG of course have their vows, and Ned swore a vow at the tower, so it is possible. Of course you have Jaime and Brienne (Oathkeeper), and so this will probably be some kind of theme and there is a relationship in terms of the story of the tower.

Harrenhal and the abduction? Hmm, seems like a lot for one chapter, sure some people have been waiting for answers to that for a couple of decades and you would think they have earned it, but nobody is ever that nice to the long term fans. Besides Harrenhal totally deserves it's own title. Probably could of named this episode Joy, but really that theme would not translate anywhere else on the show.

Door and Harrenhal? Don't hate me but I don't see the connection. Door is a theme in the book series and tends to relate more towards Dany, the House with the red door (that is very significant to George if people don't know, that's part of his own childhood), last door on the left is the first door on the right, all doors are black at night (just like cloaks.) It will probably be a theme, I like the title, but I don't know about Harrenhal. However Door often is tied to magic and visions, they have just been more on Dany's side then Bran's in this case.

I think we see young Howland Reed standing next to Ned in the preview looks like Robert Aramayo anway. Maybe we see them talk? Or see how Howland saved him. We clearly get the full fight. If you look at the preview you can see a KG dead on the ground when it is 5 on 1 against Arthur.

Anyway that is all I got, which is not much. We don't even have all the episode names yet, so, you know I don't think we get everything about Jon just yet, still got a few months for the rest of the season to play out. Excited for next week.

One last thing, duel swords? Really? That's not the pale super shinny everyone wanted to see. I could see D&D being like we don't want too much magic on a show with Shadow demon Baby, 3 Dragons, resurrections, an army of Undead Ice thralls led by Vamperic Ice Demon guys doing the come at me bro move, weather control, ice weapons, Valyrian steel, red fire magic people, faceless men, the red priests,blood magic fire balls, Dire wolves, Warging, The Three Eyed Raven, Leaf a child of the forest, Giants, etc... Cause epic pale magic sword is going to far. 

[Ser Creighton]

Almost forgot, it looks like at least one member of the KG has had his name changed, I hope that does not happen to Arthur. I will not be thrilled with Willie Twin Swords Finnegan. The Dayne's have been short changed in the series, no Ashara, no Ned, a mention in the White Book, no Jaime talking about Arthur or Rhaegar. That would be nice if Jaime talked about either, that is part of his story after all. Selmy skipped his Ashara stuff, and his Harrenhal stuff, he did talk about Rhaegar and Aerys a bit. But can we at least have Arthur even if he doesn't appear to have special shinny awesome. Probably give it to Tyrion, a giant sword for a little man, I forged it as a boy from the heart of a falling star. They said, oh Tyrion that sword is to big for you, but it is made from a special light metal that allows me to wield it, tis very sharp. Who says a dwarf can't have a giant sword, hahahaha, another dick joke, another bad dick joke.

[DarkerStar]

I think people should really get used to the idea of a Tower of Joy scene that neither proves not disproves R+L. Just save yourself some disappointment.

[JonisHenryTudor]

To be honest, it really isn't important to me if Dawn (which would most likely look like any other sword) is in the show or not. 

[robasp2]

Not having Dawn is a nitpick according to me..

Fighters do not fight with huge swords. The fight scenes would look stupid, just like Areo's axe was last season.

But then again, people didn't duel weild either

[JonCon's Red Beard]

According to people with more experience and knowledge than me about swords and fighting, double-sword fighting didn't exist in the times that inspired ASOIAF. Before you say "but it's tv", remember that D&d have said they want to keep "realism".

Either way, ToJ without the political context of Rhaegar, Arthur, Gregor, etc.. .it's not ToJ.

[Wall Flower]

1 hour ago, Ser Creighton said:

Almost forgot, it looks like at least one member of the KG has had his name changed, I hope that does not happen to Arthur. I will not be thrilled with Willie Twin Swords Finnegan. The Dayne's have been short changed in the series, no Ashara, no Ned, a mention in the White Book, no Jaime talking about Arthur or Rhaegar. That would be nice if Jaime talked about either, that is part of his story after all. Selmy skipped his Ashara stuff, and his Harrenhal stuff, he did talk about Rhaegar and Aerys a bit. But can we at least have Arthur even if he doesn't appear to have special shinny awesome. Probably give it to Tyrion, a giant sword for a little man, I forged it as a boy from the heart of a falling star. They said, oh Tyrion that sword is to big for you, but it is made from a special light metal that allows me to wield it, tis very sharp. Who says a dwarf can't have a giant sword, hahahaha, another dick joke, another bad dick joke.

I seem to recall that Joffrey taunted Jaime about Arthur Dayne's entry in the White Book prior to the Pink Wedding - he was sneering about Dayne's stellar achievements versus Jaime's lack of recorded noble deeds. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean than the show will remember that little detail.

[Clash]

7 hours ago, Ser Greenseer said:

The Targs have had literally no involvement with the white walkers, and don't even know about them. So you could say they haven't lost sight of the real enemy because they never saw them in the first place. 

Yes, but isn't the implication of R+L=J that there is now a Targaryen descendant at the wall who knows just how dangerous the white walkers are?

[Hodor's Aunt]

8 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

This makes me really sad. But then, it's probably better than a horrible Rhaegar because someone F'ed up casting. 

About Jon's name... I'd like to think it was Ned alone who named the child and Lyanna has nothing to do with Jon. (isn't Jon named after Jon Arryn anyways?) in my mind, Lyanna would never give such a generic and lame name to Rhaegar's son, that name screams Ned Stark. Just how awful does Jon Targaryen sound? 

Both Lyenna + Ned would have known that Jon Snow would have been dead with a Targaeryen name. Imagine Ned comming home with the suckling and telling his people - "oh that's my bastard - I called him Aegon, just because I liked the name". In the meantime Robert is out killing everyone he suspects to be of "dragon spawn". Simply not possible. If Jon was to life he needed a very non Targ name.  

[II_CHIEF]

2 hours ago, DarkerStar said:

I think people should really get used to the idea of a Tower of Joy scene that neither proves not disproves R+L. Just save yourself some disappointment.

Absolutely.

Looks like its potentially the plot line they'll run with in the show, but still wont confirm the plot line in the books.