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Snowman3131

Jon Snow can leave the Night's Watch...

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and become a full Stark. Rally the north against the psychopath Ramsay. 

When you take the black, your "watch ends" at your death. He died. He's free to go, or take the black again I suppose. 

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My thoughts exactly! Assuming R+L=J is true, his death/revival would be his loophole out of his oath to the Night's Watch, giving him the freedom to go south and discover the truth for himself.

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Only if people outside of the Wall believe he had been dead in the first place.

Long-term it doesn't mean much with the Others out there... he has got to return up there anyway.

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He's free of his vows, but it won't be that simple.

I'm guessing that the Wall will come down at some point.

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The Night's Watch in both book and show, is doomed, unless Jon manages to keep everyone from freaking out and running. I have a really big feeling that all those wards on the Wall only really hold as long as the Watch holds. When the Watch goes, the wards fail, and the Wall comes down. This is going to happen, i think, and the Others are gonna come barreling in. Jon could likely tell the Watch as a whole to fuck off and only ask for the people who wish to follow him to do so. (just like in the book when hes like "im going to kick some Bolton ass and if anyone wants to, come with me." 

The bright side though, is that the whole Watch knows Jon got murked, so when they see him come out of that room all alive and junk, little green peanuts will be shat. So guys are like to follow his lead. However, the downside, is some might think hes a wight and pee themselves and run away screaming.

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9 hours ago, Snowman3131 said:

[something something something] and become a full Stark. Rally the north against the psychopath Ramsay. 

When you take the black, your "watch ends" at your death. He died. He's free to go, or take the black again I suppose. 

If Jon is no longer the 998th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, then he has no authority to pass judgement on the traitors. let alone to execute them with his own hand as Eddard Stark had taught him.

I wonder whether Sir Alliser shall be held to have been the 999th Lord Commander so that Jon is now also its 1000th Lord Commander.

I also wonder whether anyone will ever knight him.

He can no more “become a full Stark” than can any child who had only one Stark parent and one non-Stark parent.  It’s not like his parents were siblings or cousins. :)

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The big elephant in the room is that the main conflict of the franchise is the force the Nights Watch was created to defend against.

If the Others kill everyone then the Night's Watch has lost and will cease to exist. If the Others are defeated, then the Night's Watch completed their task and have no reason to exist.

Furthermore, yes Jon died so he has that out. The Watch betrayed him so he has that out. If the Watch thinks the best way to defeat their mortal enemy is to release Jon of his vows, he has that out.

Of course it's entirely plausible Jon stays a man of the Night's Watch forever. All these are possibilities.

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Eh, if Jon wanted to leave the Watch, the fact that they murdered their last two lord commanders is sufficient reason to leave. Going around telling everyone you died but you're back is just going to get people to think you're crazy.

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A part of me just doesn't think Jon is going to give a damn about his "vows" any longer, whether they still exist or not.  He's not going to go to Allister and be like "oh, you stabbed me to death and betrayed me...but we need to still give you a fair trial!".   Yea...not going to happen.

The remaining NW forces don't really seem to have any loyalty towards anyone.  And half of the force at the wall now is Wildlings, who all seem to be loyal to Jon.  There is a major shift about to happen with the entire NW and it's belief system. 

I'm hoping Jon's attitude completely flips going forward. (Honestly, I don't see how it couldn't).  I'd love to see him drop his pseudo-honor thing he has going on and just turn bad-ass.  I have a feeling when Sansa reaches him and she tells him about what Ramsey did to her, I think we'll see the last of Mr. Nice Guy.

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9 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

If Jon is no longer the 998th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, then he has no authority to pass judgement on the traitors. let alone to execute them with his own hand as Eddard Stark had taught him.

I wonder whether Sir Alliser shall be held to have been the 999th Lord Commander so that Jon is now also its 1000th Lord Commander.

I also wonder whether anyone will ever knight him.

He can no more “become a full Stark” than can any child who had only one Stark parent and one non-Stark parent.  It’s not like his parents were siblings or cousins. :)

You need to vote next LC of the Night's Watch. Thorne took command but they still need to vote as the tradition tells.

He'll judge them and maybe execute them. He can, if he wants to. It really depends on his mood and what kind of person he is. If he leaves them alone, what kind of message this would send to people who might want to bertray him or these very same traitors who might want to bertray him again? They stabbed him in the back.

Of course he can become Stark. If Rickon or Sansa do it, he can be. North will probably respect it, other don't.

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I guess so but the question is whether he would want to. In the books he wanted to leave when it looked like Janos Slynt will be the Lord Commander but after Jon was elected, he changed his mind completely and remained true to his vows and to the Night's Watch.

But the real question is what the death will do to him. If he remains the same or if his character changes. Considering that they omitted LSH from the show, maybe Jon could take her role as a force seeking revenge against Stark enemies.

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People tend to forget he is still bastard and I doubt that he will be legitimized any time soon .. at least not till Tommen sits the throne 

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57 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

I guess so but the question is whether he would want to. In the books he wanted to leave when it looked like Janos Slynt will be the Lord Commander but after Jon was elected, he changed his mind completely and remained true to his vows and to the Night's Watch.

But the real question is what the death will do to him. If he remains the same or if his character changes. Considering that they omitted LSH from the show, maybe Jon could take her role as a force seeking revenge against Stark enemies.

If he just became another version of LSH, then it would ruin his character.  Why?  Because Jon knows the real enemy is to the North, and if he just started hunting down everyone who wronged the Starks, he would no longer be preparing for war.  The only reason he would get any revenge is because he needs the North back in the hands of the Starks...without the North reunited (and really, the seven kingdoms and beyond), they won't have the ability to fight the coming army of the dead.  But as much as revenge might be a good side dish, I don't think it will be Jon's main motivation in his actions going forward...otherwise, there wouldn't be any reason to have brought him back.

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15 minutes ago, sj4iy said:

If he just became another version of LSH, then it would ruin his character.  Why?  Because Jon knows the real enemy is to the North, and if he just started hunting down everyone who wronged the Starks, he would no longer be preparing for war.  The only reason he would get any revenge is because he needs the North back in the hands of the Starks...without the North reunited (and really, the seven kingdoms and beyond), they won't have the ability to fight the coming army of the dead.  But as much as revenge might be a good side dish, I don't think it will be Jon's main motivation in his actions going forward...otherwise, there wouldn't be any reason to have brought him back.

Well, I'm not saying that he will truly become a LSH. It was just a thought that crossed my mind. But really, I don't think that the betrayal of the Boltons is of little importance to Jon, a "side dish". To me it seems that he doesn't take an action against them because of his vows but I believe that if he could he would take a revenge. But it's only a speculation.

But, again, we do not know what the death will do to him. Will it do something? Or will he be the same? We do not know. The old Jon takes his vows very seriously but what if the new says "F**k the vows, let's go flay Ramsay!"? I suppose that we can only speculate about it until we see the next episode.

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43 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Well, I'm not saying that he will truly become a LSH. It was just a thought that crossed my mind. But really, I don't think that the betrayal of the Boltons is of little importance to Jon, a "side dish". To me it seems that he doesn't take an action against them because of his vows but I believe that if he could he would take a revenge. But it's only a speculation.

But, again, we do not know what the death will do to him. Will it do something? Or will he be the same? We do not know. The old Jon takes his vows very seriously but what if the new says "F**k the vows, let's go flay Ramsay!"? I suppose that we can only speculate about it until we see the next episode.

I don't know how he will change.  But I don't think he will become a creature of vengeance, is my point...it doesn't serve Jon's storyline or the storyline at large.  The plot needs Jon to be the resolute leader who unites people in an attempt to stop the White Walkers- if he just started going for vengeance against all those that wronged him and his family, then he would be no better than the other characters who are spending all of their time squabbling over politics and power.

The showrunners and directors involved keep using 'rebirth' over 'resurrection', which leads me to believe that this will be very different from the other characters who have been brought back from the death.  A resurrection signals something has lessened...a rebirth signals that something has changed.  So I believe that Jon will change, but not lessen.  And that change has to serve the story and his character.  Vengeance, as fun as it is, does not serve either.

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5 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I guess so but the question is whether he would want to. In the books he wanted to leave when it looked like Janos Slynt will be the Lord Commander but after Jon was elected, he changed his mind completely and remained true to his vows and to the Night's Watch.

But the real question is what the death will do to him. If he remains the same or if his character changes. Considering that they omitted LSH from the show, maybe Jon could take her role as a force seeking revenge against Stark enemies.

I love this idea.

I've gotten bored with the white walkers story line. It's like there are two huge stories going on where Jon needs to be involved with both. Westeros and these frost giants. I'd like to see the Starks get some joy back and Ramsay to finally get his comeuppance.  

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The last job I left I got a card that everyone signed - and we had cake! (a nice one) Doubt Jon will get any thing that special, anyhoo leave the nights watch or dissolve it? making him the new lord of castle black, the other castles become his vassals and the free folk populate the gift and new gift and do military service at the wall, oh and pay taxes to castle black which in turn swears fealty to Winterfell.

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14 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Eh, if Jon wanted to leave the Watch, the fact that they murdered their last two lord commanders is sufficient reason to leave. Going around telling everyone you died but you're back is just going to get people to think you're crazy.

LOL Really?

And who were the last two Lord Commanders then? Or more specifically who was the last one that was murdered?

:D

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16 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

If Jon is no longer the 998th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, then he has no authority to pass judgement on the traitors. let alone to execute them with his own hand as Eddard Stark had taught him.

.....

 

No. Both the show and book start with Eddard(non NW) executing a NW deserter, and telling his children that it is one of the sacred duties of a Stark to do so if they ever catch NW deserters/traitors. As a matter of fact, I think every house south of the wall can do that if they catch NW deserters(traitors) in the seat of their power. And the traitors are in the hands of the wildlings, that will see Jon as their new leader from now on.

The book goes even farther, and Arya does her duty as a Stark and executes that NW singer that abandons his task set to him by Jon and start singing in brothels in Braavos.

I think Jon could channel his Stark side a little and chop a head or two. But he won’t. He will tell them that if they want to continue without his leadership, they are free to do so. He goes south to raise the alarm about the imminent WW invasion, even if he has to claim some power to do so. The traitors will realize that Jon was a better man than them and they will swear to become better men for the rest of their life, which will be short lived because the Night King will come and kill them all.  The end.

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I don't think it should release him from his vows, since he isn't really dead. The vows don't specify that if you happen to die and be brought back then you are off the hook. Its service for all the days of your life, and if he has been brought back then he has life again, and that life belongs to the Watch. Even if they do decide that since he was killed he can be let off from his vows, I hope he turns it down. Jon chose of his own will to be a man of the watch and I hope he stays true to that.

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