Rickon vs Ramsey

[chasing the dragons]

Who, in the eyes of gods and men, has a stronger claim to Winterfell: Ramsey (with a marriage to Sansa) or Rickon? I believe it's Rickon so if he is the gift, doesn't he die quickly?

[lordstewie]

Rickon has stronger claim , he is the right heir 

female come after male 

before her there is bran too

if he is the gif maybe Ramsey want using him as a puppet

[lordstewie]

but someone should explaining why umber bring him to a foe 

[Masha]

9 minutes ago, lordstewie said:

but someone should explaining why umber bring him to a foe 

It looks like Umbers are allying with Boltons instead of Starks in the TV show. Which I could accept, but what I won't accept if they would do the same with Manderly too, unless Manderly will do a turn-about at last second and strike Ramsey in the back.

Do you think that Ramsey will attempt to manipulate Rickon to turn him against Sansa and Jon? And then when armies face each other - murder him and Osha in order to get Jon upset? Perhaps he would try to break the boy 

I can definitely see Ramsey writing a pink letter to Jon threatening Rickon thus prompting Jon to join Sansa into getting Northern lords to join with him.

 

 

[lordstewie]

5 minutes ago, Masha said:

It looks like Umbers are allying with Boltons instead of Starks in the TV show. Which I could accept, but what I won't accept if they would do the same with Manderly too, unless Manderly will do a turn-about at last second and strike Ramsey in the back.

Do you think that Ramsey will attempt to manipulate Rickon to turn him against Sansa and Jon? And then when armies face each other - murder him and Osha in order to get Jon upset? Perhaps he would try to break the boy 

I can definitely see Ramsey writing a pink letter to Jon threatening Rickon thus prompting Jon to join Sansa into getting Northern lords to join with him.

 

 

i agree 

there is only a question about it , why ?

bolton kills umber during the red wedding , umbers must hate them, why become friends ?

the show like destroy the politics of books

it seems that in this season we have a lot of shock moment

[Bran Snow]

Umbers were in the Riverland during the Red Wedding. So in the show no Umbers were hurt during the making of that wedding

[Masha]

Does anyone else know what happened during the Red Wedding?

1) While people do know (I hope) that Bolton betrayed Stark at Red Wedding, nobody other than his men and Freys know what truly happened there. He could have said that while I betrayed Starks and his bannerman, I just watched, Freys did the horrid thing.

2) In the show, did Roose kill anyone other than Robb at Red Wedding?

3) In the show, Umbers were never overly loyal/fanatically loyal toward Starks, just general bannerman eager to jump onboard for power. Didn't originally one of the Jons (GreatJon or SmallJon) challenge Robb as weak till Grey Wind ate his finger? It could be claimed they go with strongest, and right now its Ramsey

4) In the show, do people in the North know that Bolton was responsible for betrayal of Starks? 

 

[Hodor's Aunt]

28 minutes ago, lordstewie said:

but someone should explaining why umber bring him to a foe 

In the books House Umber is divided (situation is different than in the show, but still) and partially fighting for the boltons. So maybe something like that will happen in the show, too.  I can see them giving a certain storyline of a different northern house to the Umbers.

[lordstewie]

umber is divided but it seems a strategy to trick bolton

then , you have the right heir of winterfell , you can join with him to bargain power

there's no need to make a gift

4 minutes ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

In the books House Umber is divided (situation is different than in the show, but still) and partially fighting for the boltons. So maybe something like that will happen in the show, too.  I can see them giving a certain storyline of a different northern house to the Umbers.

 

[Hodor's Aunt]

7 minutes ago, lordstewie said:

umber is divided but it seems a strategy to trick bolton

then , you have the right heir of winterfell , you can join with him to bargain power

there's no need to make a gift

 

not if you are'nt the current lord of last hearth. If you are an ambitious traitor you would abduct the boy bring him to your liege lord and get the lordship in return.

[Masha]

17 minutes ago, lordstewie said:

umber is divided but it seems a strategy to trick bolton

then , you have the right heir of winterfell , you can join with him to bargain power

there's no need to make a gift

 

If you want to play Ramsey, you bargain with what you have not give it up! I really don't think the guy who gives up Rickon to tender mercies of Ramsey is doing so in order to play Ramsey now and betray him in favor of Starks later. 

At best, Ramsey going to play Rickon to turn him against his family and then murder him, and at worst, he will mentally torture him (probably by torturing Osha) and then murder him later.

I do hope Umbers are divided just like they are in the books, otherwise - Umbers is just another Karstarks. Which I fear will happen. 

I just hope Manderly is not going to be portrayed as such, in the books he is a great character, loyal to Starks playing their enemies. If D&D completely change him to another Bolton lackey. So, unless Manderly and his armies stab Boltons in the back at the big battle, I'll be extremely disappointed.

 

 

[Neffaria]

as much as I believe that Ramsay will want Rickon dead (right away or later on) I do not believe he will succeed. I think he will use him as a lure to try and get jon snow "winterfell is mine come see" so that he can kill off all the male threats to winterfell in front of him, and keep his sansa thus cementing his place as warden in the north etc etc. I dont think he will succeed in killing Rickon. hes become such a boogie monster in the show that any further death he causes will be shock value only. and if Rickon had such a minor part to play, why keep the actor on retainer for two years just to come back so he can die? just my thoughts. besides i think shaggy will save the day...i hope...even tho D&d dont like working with animals...

 

[Ser Matt Dayne]

The Umbers, in the show at least, always struck me as snakes not really committed unwaveringly to the Starks.

Greatjon's king in the north speech smacked of someone out to carve his own piece of the pie, and saw a handier number in dealing with a Boy King in the North than the Iron Throne.

[north of the wall]

My wishfulf thinking is telling me Umber brings Rickon to Ramsay as a gift to show his loyalty. I also hope though that this is a ruse. He will (hopefully) tell Ramsay not to kill him as he can be leverage to get back Sansa and possibly kill Jon. Along comes the pink letter with a few alterations. This then brings Jon and possibly Sansa to WF and then the Umbers and some other Northern lords fuck Ramsay over from within and have themselves Rickon as Lord and Sansa as Regent. This is the way I would like it to play out and am going to blindly hold on to until proved otherwise. Please D&D show us the undying loyalty of the North from the books in some manner or another

[jbob]

3 hours ago, Masha said:

It looks like Umbers are allying with Boltons instead of Starks in the TV show. Which I could accept, but what I won't accept if they would do the same with Manderly too, unless Manderly will do a turn-about at last second and strike Ramsey in the back.

Do you think that Ramsey will attempt to manipulate Rickon to turn him against Sansa and Jon? And then when armies face each other - murder him and Osha in order to get Jon upset? Perhaps he would try to break the boy 

I can definitely see Ramsey writing a pink letter to Jon threatening Rickon thus prompting Jon to join Sansa into getting Northern lords to join with him.

 

 

These characters in the show aren't the same as the characters in the books. We don't know what Wyman is like in the show universe or what events he has gone through.

I predict that Manderly's role will be given to Lyanna Mormont. Much of Wyman's speech will be given to her.

[Pies are coming]

The show had one dude with Manderly sigils killed during the Red Wedding, so Manderly could still be a Stark loyalist (or a Bolton hater)

[jandslegate]

I'd like to hope that if it is Rickon, he becomes the show version of Ghost of Winterfel via warging to pick people off. I'd also like to see the Umbers feigning betrayal as another show nod to TGNC. Unfortunately, Ramsay will probably just feed someone else to the dogs and go off with 19 other men and wipe out The Others. 

[Arataniello]

Given the contraction of so many plot lines in the TV version, the Umbers are probably playing the role that the Manderleys do in the books - namely a house that allies with the Boltons, but only to betray them.  

If this is the case, then they may very well bring Rickon with them to Winterfell as a way to demonstrate their allegiance to Bolton, only to reveal their true colours (i.e. the Starks being the rightful lords of the North) later.
 

[Lord Buckethead]

31 minutes ago, Arataniello said:

Given the contraction of so many plot lines in the TV version, the Umbers are probably playing the role that the Manderleys do in the books - namely a house that allies with the Boltons, but only to betray them.  

If this is the case, then they may very well bring Rickon with them to Winterfell as a way to demonstrate their allegiance to Bolton, only to reveal their true colours (i.e. the Starks being the rightful lords of the North) later.
 

If the umbers actually take upon themselves the risk of putting Rickon in Ramsays custody, despite still being Stark Loyalists, they certainly know nothing about what Ramsay is capable of. 

For me it's got to be either:

a ) House Umber (or someone from house Umber) are more loyal to Ramsay than to the Starks in the TV-series

or

b ) The gift is not "Rickon" at all, it is something/someone else, or a fake Rickon.

 

 

[Hibee87]

I read a kinda spoiler a while back from maisie williams saying Rickon will be in season 6 LATER on. To me this means that the theory of a fake rickon as a ruse is the most likely outcome for 'the gift', if it is even rickon at all.