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The Stone Beast from the HOTU Vision is Drogon - Stone Drogon


chrisdaw

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From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

Dany's HOTU vision. This is Drogon having been infected by Garin's Curse, greyscale. Euron will be the cause but I'm not going to address the why and how of it here. This topic is purely about Stone Drogon, that the great stone beast in the vision is Drogon, the black dragon, not another dragon and not a random new beast. As once people get Stone Drogon the rest becomes much clearer.

Ironborn and foul black weapons, foreshadowing in TWOIAF.

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in such numbers that the men of the greenlands told each other that the ironborn were demons risen from some watery hell, protected by fell sorceries and possessed of foul black weapons that drank the very souls of those they slew.

Foul as the stone beast will be corrupted with greyscale.

A famous Ironborn fighter.

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Most famous of all was Balon Blackskin, who fought with an axe in his left and a hammer in his right. No weapon made of man could harm him, it was said; swords glanced off and left no mark, and axes shattered against his skin.

Did such men ever truly walk the earth?

Black skin. Impervious to weapons like dragon scales are almost, a weapon in each hand as dragons have two front claws to tear and rip with. No man walked the earth but such dragons do fly.

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The Isle of Cedars. Where were these cedars? Drowned four hundred years ago, it seemed. Victarion had gone ashore a dozen times, hunting fresh meat, and had yet to see a cedar.

The girlish master Euron had inflicted upon him back in Westeros claimed this place had once been called 'the Isle of a Hundred Battles,' but the men who had fought those battles had all gone to dust centuries ago. The Isle of Monkeys, that's what they should call it. There were pigs as well: the biggest, blackest boars that any ironborn had ever seen and plenty of squealing piglets in the brush, bold creatures that had no fear of man. They were learning, though. The larders of the Iron Fleet were filling up with smoked hams, salted pork, and bacon.

The biggest, blackest boars that have no fear of man are foreshadowing Drogon. Having found them, having hunted and harvested them, is a benefit to Victarion and the Iron Fleet.

Note the common theme of black, it's the black dragon being foreshadowed here, not any other, and it's either a weapon or being harvested for the Ironborn's profit.

The famous Ironborn king the Grey King represents Euron. Nagga-Drogon.

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Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne.

Nagga is a she and the mightiest. A female, as Drogon is ridden by Dany, and Drogon is the mightiest of the dragons. Nagga's bones are turned to stone, as Stone Drogon's will be from the greyscale. The Grey King and Ironborn profit from Nagga's body, her stone bones become a longhall and throne. Her fire is captured and used to warm their hall.

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The hall had been warmed by Nagga's living fire, which the Grey had made his thrall.

Drogon's living fire, becomes a thrall of Euron. Drogon's flame becomes Euron's shadowflame breath.

The Bloodstone Emperor foreshadows Euron.

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When the daughter of the Opal Emperor succeeded him as the Amethyst Empress, her envious younger brother cast her down and slew her, proclaiming himself the Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror. He practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy, enslaved his people, took a tiger-woman for his bride, feasted on human flesh, and cast down the true gods to worship a black stone that had fallen from the sky.

Amethyst Empress is a woman but trade her for a man and the Bloodstone Emperor did to him exactly what Euron did to Balon. Euron has also tortured, holds necromancers, has started the Ironborn slaving again despite it being against their custom and he forced his captives into cannibalism. Bloodstone for the blood coloured eye. And the Bloodstone Emperor worships a black stone from the sky. Black and from the sky for Drogon, stone for greyscale.

Harrenhal itself foreshadows Stone Drogon. A colossal black/grey stone monstrosity, the largest in the kingdom, built by the last Hoare king, Harren the Black. And ofcourse Harrenhal is cursed. The Hoare kings foreshadow Euron. Stone Drogon will be Drogon cursed by Greyscale, Garin's curse, black/grey, stone, a huge monster. And created by Euron. (The whole Harrenhal being burned is about Stone Drogon being cured, waking the dragon from stone.)

Garin.

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The only way not to breathe the fog is not to breathe. "Garin's Curse is only greyscale," said Tyrion.

Garin's Curse and Greyscale are interchangeable as far as foreshadowing is concerned.

In ADWD a character called Garin is introduced, he is one of Arianne's friends.

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"Garin the Great," offered Drey, "the wonder of the Rhoyne."

"That's the one. He made Valyria tremble."

"They trembled," said Ser Gerold, "then they killed him. If I led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerold the Great?" He snorted.

Note that Garin was called the great, as it's a great stone beast taking flight in the HOTU vision.

Garin was named for the character who caused the curse, which gives reason enough to consider him foreshadowing for greyscale, but there's instances too which put it beyond doubt, this being the prime.

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whilst Garin ate olives and spit the stones at Drey.

Olives symbolise peace, spitting stones is foreshadowing breathing greyscale. Garin's curse (greyscale) breaks the peace and spits stones.

Now, the connection to Drogon is in this passage.

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During her next bath, she spoke of her imprisoned friends, especially Garin. "He's the one I fear for most," she confided to the serving girl. "The orphans are free spirits, they live to wander. Garin needs sunshine and fresh air. If they lock him away in some dank stone cell, how will he survive? He will not last a year at Ghaston Grey." Cedra did not reply, but her face was pale when Arianne rose from the water, and she was squeezing the sponge so tightly that soap was dripping on the Myrish carpet.

Even so, it was four more days and two more baths before the girl was hers. "Please," Cedra finally whispered, after Arianne had painted a vivid picture of Garin throwing himself from the window of his cell, to taste freedom one last time before he died. "You have to help him. Please don't let him die."

Arianne has three friends who were locked up. But it's Garin she is talking of, the one she fears for most. The other two will be ok in their captivity, but the wanderer needs fresh air, sunshine, he's a free spirit.

This refers to the three dragons, and how the two were chained but Drogon remained free. It's paralleling that event, and Garin, the character foreshadowing and named for greyscale, is representing Drogon.

Note the reference to stone cell and Ghaston Grey, the greyscale will imprison Drogon in his own body of stone. The picture Arianne paints is of Garin throwing himself out a window cell to commit suicide, akin to how the stone beast is taking flight from a tower (and how Euron muses on attempting to fly, jumping from a tower).

Some Davos.

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Davos had often heard it said that the wizards of Valyria did not cut and chisel as common masons did, but worked stone with fire and magic as a potter might work clay. But now he wondered. What if they were real dragons, somehow turned to stone?

I'm not proposing all those dragons were once real and turned to stone, just that it's blatant foreshadowing for Stone Drogon, a real dragon, somehow (and gradually) turned to stone.

 

And so, the great stone beast is Drogon afflicted by greyscale. And that's why a dragon needs to be woken from stone.

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When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

 

Now, the HOTU vision of the stone beast is Dany's and she knows beast from dragon, so the obvious question is why would she think a dragon a beast? Indeed this is why I hadn't seriously looked down this path before, it's difficult to reconcile, but the answer is simple enough. Stone Drogon isn't going to appear much like a dragon. As Drogon will take Euron's greyscale, he will also take other properties of Euron.

Drogon is currently representative of Drogo. Drogo, Dany's sun and stars, died, lost his fire, he sat staring lifelessly and longingly at the sun. Chapters before we are given a dragon creation story in which dragons took their fire by drinking from the sun. We are told when a Khal dies he is burned and rides again in the night sky, the fiercer the Khal, the brighter his star burns in the afterlife. Drogon, unlike his siblings, was unable to be chained, he remains a free spirit, he instead made his home on the Dothraki Sea and spends his time wandering it far and wide, like a Khal. Drogon is straight named for Drogo, and the dragon has an affinity with Dany. The mount to love. MMD did her blood magic, Drogo died, Drogo was burned, Drogon was born. Drogo is the first head of the dragon.

Euron is the second. The heads of the dragon are not simply people Dany sleeps with or marries, they're the ones who through sacrifice and blood magic become Drogon in spirit. In place of MMD's tent of wtf Euron has his horn, fire for blood, blood for fire. It's a one way ticket, to get into Drogon, to 'fly', he's going to have to take the leap from the tower, self sacrifice. Which is exactly what he's going to do, why he's the maddest of all.

Euron is the second head of the dragon.

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Dany tried to imagine what it would be like if she allowed Daario to kiss her, the way Jorah had kissed her on the ship. The thought was exciting and disturbing, both at once. It is too great a risk. The Tyroshi sellsword was not a good man, no one needed to tell her that. Under the smiles and the jests he was dangerous, even cruel. Sallor and Prendahl had woken one morning as his partners; that very night he'd given her their heads. Khal Drogo could be cruel as well, and there was never a man more dangerous. She had come to love him all the same. Could I love Daario? What would it mean, if I took him into my bed? Would that make him one of the heads of the dragon?

Daario is the little prelude to Euron. No taking him into her bed wouldn't make him one of the heads, it takes more than that. And Euron is not like Drogo, he is another level of crazy and sadistic beyond a simple barbarian.

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three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . .

The mounts are the three heads of the dragon, the three different forms of Drogon, that's why they're mounts she must ride. Drogo was the first, the one to love (the prhasing is not in order), Euron is the one to dread, Stone Drogon.

So, Euron is the second head of the dragon, which means Stone Drogon should take on Euron like qualities as Drogon took on the first head Drogo's qualities, Euron qualities I suggest relate to water, drowning, the black arts, Krakens and the like. And it means, where in the series there are two-heads, literally or symbolically, there is likely references to Euron/Ironborn and Stone Drogon (also Bloodraven but that's a whole other topic).

The two headed ferry.

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"Harroway town shouldn't be far," the Hound said. "Where Lord Roote stables Old King Andahar's two-headed water horse. Maybe we'll ride across."

Arya had never heard of Old King Andahar. She'd never seen a horse with two heads either, especially not one who could run on water, but she knew better than to ask. She held her tongue and sat stiff as the Hound turned the stallion's head and trotted along the ridgeline, following the river downstream. At least the rain was at their backs this way. She'd had enough of it stinging her eyes half-blind and washing down her cheeks like she was crying. Wolves never cry, she reminded herself again.

 

Its Lord Roote and Andahar's two geaded ferry. Ferry, horse, mount. Roote symbolises Bloodraven but as I said above, not doing that. Andahar is a name GRRM has borrowed from the Forgotten Realms. Andahar is a magical companion of Drizzt, Andahar is summoned by blowing a magic horn and is a unicorn. The unicorn's horn is ivory with a golden tip, he has blue eyes and bells are tied to his reins. Drizzy rides him.

Euron has a magic horn, black with gold banding, that's said to summon dragons and one blue eye. The bells point to Drogo's bells in his braid. Andahar = Euron + Drogo + mount = Stone Drogon.

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They rode beside the river for hours, splashing across two muddy vassal streams before they reached the place that Sandor Clegane had spoken of. "Lord Harroway's Town," he said, and then, when he saw it, "Seven hells!" The town was drowned and desolate. The rising waters had overflowed the riverbanks. All that remained of Harroway town was the upper story of a daub-and-wattle inn, the seven-sided dome of a sunken sept, two-thirds of a stone roundtower, some moldy thatch roofs, and a forest of chimneys.

But there was smoke coming from the tower, Arya saw, and below one arched window a wide flat-bottomed boat was chained up tight. The boat had a dozen oarlocks and a pair of great carved wooden horse heads mounted fore and aft. The two-headed horse, she realized. There was a wooden house with a sod roof right in the middle of the deck, and when the Hound cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted two men came spilling out. A third appeared in the window of the roundtower, clutching a loaded crossbow. "What do you want?" he shouted across the swirling brown waters.

"Take us over," the Hound shouted back.

The men in the boat conferred with one another. One of them, a grizzled grey-haired man with thick arms and a bent back, stepped to the rail. "It will cost you."

"Then I'll pay."

With what? Arya wondered. The outlaws had taken Clegane's gold, but maybe Lord Beric had left him some silver and copper. A ferry ride shouldn't cost more than a few coppers . . .

The ferrymen were talking again. Finally the bent-backed one turned away and gave a shout. Six more men appeared, pulling up hoods to keep the rain off their heads. Still more squirmed out the holdfast window and leapt down onto the deck. Half of them looked enough like the bent-backed man to be his kin. Some of them undid the chains and took up long poles, while the others slid heavy wide-bladed oars through the locks. The ferry swung about and began to creep slowly toward the shallows, oars stroking smoothly on either side. Sandor Clegane rode down the hill to meet it.

When the aft end of the boat slammed into the hillside, the ferrymen opened a wide door beneath the carved horse's head, and extended a heavy oaken plank. Stranger balked at the water's edge, but the Hound put his heels into the courser's flank and urged him up the gangway. The bent-backed man was waiting for them on deck. "Wet enough for you, ser?" he asked, smiling.

The Hound's mouth gave a twitch. "I need your boat, not your bloody wit." He dismounted, and pulled Arya down beside him. One of the boatmen reached for Stranger's bridle. "I wouldn't," Clegane said, as the horse kicked. The man leapt back, slipped on the rain-slick deck, and crashed onto his arse, cursing.

The ferryman with the bent back wasn't smiling any longer. "We can get you across," he said sourly. "It will cost you a gold piece. Another for the horse. A third for the boy."

"Three dragons?" Clegane gave a bark of laughter. "For three dragons I should own the bloody ferry."

"Last year, might be you could. But with this river, I'll need extra hands on the poles and oars just to see we don't get swept a hundred miles out to sea. Here's your choice. Three dragons, or you teach that hellhorse how to walk on water."

"I like an honest brigand. Have it your way. Three dragons . . . when you put us ashore safe on the north bank."

"I'll have them now, or we don't go." The man thrust out a thick, callused hand, palm up.

...

The two-headed horse eased slowly through the shallows, picking its way between the chimneys and rooftops of drowned Harroway. A dozen men labored at the oars while four more used the long poles to push off whenever they came too close to a rock, a tree, or a sunken house. The bent-backed man had the rudder. Rain pattered against the smooth planks of the deck and splashed off the tall carved horseheads fore and aft. Arya was getting soaked again, but she didn't care. She wanted to see. The man with the crossbow still stood in the window of the roundtower, she saw. His eyes followed her as the ferry slid by underneath. She wondered if he was this Lord Roote that the Hound had mentioned. He doesn't look much like a lord. But then, she didn't look much like a lady either.

Once they were beyond the town and out in the river proper, the current grew much stronger. Through the grey haze of rain Arya could make out a tall stone pillar on the far shore that surely marked the ferry landing, but no sooner had she seen it than she realized that they were being pushed away from it, downstream. The oarsmen were rowing more vigorously now, fighting the rage of the river. Leaves and broken branches swirled past as fast as if they'd been fired from a scorpion. The men with the poles leaned out and shoved away anything that came too close. It was windier out here, too. Whenever she turned to look upstream, Arya got a face full of blowing rain. Stranger was screaming and kicking as the deck moved underfoot.

...

But a sudden shout snapped her head about before she could leap. The ferrymen were rushing forward, poles in hand. For a moment she did not understand what was happening. Then she saw it: an uprooted tree, huge and dark, coming straight at them. A tangle of roots and limbs poked up out of the water as it came, like the reaching arms of a great kraken. The oarsmen were backing water frantically, trying to avoid a collision that could capsize them or stove their hull in. The old man had wrenched the rudder about, and the horse at the prow was swinging downstream, but too slowly. Glistening brown and black, the tree rushed toward them like a battering ram.

It could not have been more than ten feet from their prow when two of the boatmen somehow caught it with their long poles. One snapped, and the long splintering craaaack made it sound as if the ferry were breaking up beneath them. But the second man managed to give the trunk a hard shove, just enough to deflect it away from them. The tree swept past the ferry with inches to spare, its branches scrabbling like claws against the horsehead. Only just when it seemed as if they were clear, one of the monster's upper limbs dealt them a glancing thump. The ferry seemed to shudder, and Arya slipped, landing painfully on one knee. The man with the broken pole was not so lucky. She heard him shout as he stumbled over the side. Then the raging brown water closed over him, and he was gone in the time it took Arya to climb back to her feet. One of the other boatmen snatched up a coil of rope, but there was no one to throw it to.

Maybe he'll wash up someplace downstream, Arya tried to tell herself, but the thought had a hollow ring. She had lost all desire to go swimming. When Sandor Clegane shouted at her to get back inside before he beat her bloody, she went meekly. The ferry was fighting to turn back on course by then, against a river that wanted nothing more than to carry it down to the sea.

 

First off the smoking stone tower, signalling the tower Stone Drogon is born from in the vision and the tower Euron leaps from.

The sequence of Stranger knocking the man trying to take his reigns I believe symbolises Dany will have difficulty mounting Stone Drogon, and eventually won't be able to at all.

Possible Roote not looking much like a lord watching them from above is more BR.

A mention of a scorpion, possibly a nod towards Stone Drogon's appearance, I think something else though.

A great Kraken.

The boat is fighting not to go to the sea.

And between all those the imagery that goes towards the qualities and appearance of Stone Drogon. First off, two-heads, the question is if that's going to remain symbolism or go literal. Going literal will give the dragon must have three heads away, so I suppose its a question of how deep into the story comes Stone Drogon. Stone Drogon is bent backed, and like the oars has multiple extremities. Like a kraken. The plank out the mouth would represent a tongue, a thick heavy black tongue. Stone Drogon is also slow, a creeper.

The scorpion and the kraken here I don't think represent qualities of Stone Drogon. I think they're fights he's getting into. People will try to kill Stone Drogon, scorpions would be an option.

The fight to stay up river or out to sea I think represents the end game. Inside Stone Drogon are the spirits of Drogo and Euron, and the two will war. Drogon to stay a regular dragon, to fly, Euron to a kraken. I think they will meet in the middle, Stone Drogon will gradually turn to stone, and gradually become a sea dragon. And that's why the boat has a fight with a kraken, Stone Drogon is going to become a sea dragon, like Nagga, whom the Grey King made a throne of. Euron exists within Stone Drogon, his throne. And Stone Drogon will end up in the sea, half kraken and half dragon, sea dragon, unable to fly, and he will fight a real kraken.

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I think Dany would have noticed if the beast was a dragon, greyscale or not. This makes me think the beast is not a dragon and, therefore, not Drogon.

ETA: Honestly, I think the great stone beast is the sphinx that Aemon talked about.

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11 hours ago, bent branch said:

I think Dany would have noticed if the beast was a dragon, greyscale or not. This makes me think the beast is not a dragon and, therefore, not Drogon.

There's a good reason why Stone Drogon is called a beast and not a dragon. It's not going to look like a dragon. Drogo is the first head of the dragon, Euron is the second. Drogo was the mount to love, Euron is the mount to dread. Drogon has the characteristics of Drogo. Stone Drogon will take on the likeness of stone from Euron's greyscale, and he will also take on other qualities, physically and spiritually. I will edit in the foreshadowing of Stone Drogon's characteristics other than that of stone.

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6 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

There's a good reason why Stone Drogon is called a beast and not a dragon. It's not going to look like a dragon. Drogo is the first head of the dragon, Euron is the second. Drogo was the mount to love, Euron is the mount to dread. Drogon has the characteristics of Drogo. Stone Drogon will take on the likeness of stone from Euron's greyscale, and he will also take on other qualities, physically and spiritually. I will edit in the foreshadowing of Stone Drogon's characteristics other than that of stone.

Why do you associate Euron with greyscale? Drogon contracting  greyscale would be quite a twist, I'm pretty sure there has never been a preceeding example of any Dragons having greyscale in the past or has there?

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9 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

Why do you associate Euron with greyscale? Drogon contracting  greyscale would be quite a twist, I'm pretty sure there has never been a preceeding example of any Dragons having greyscale in the past or has there?

 

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A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

. . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

Corpse, dead, grey.

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The Grey King's greatest feat, however, was the slaying of Nagga, largest of the sea dragons, a beast so colossal that she was said to feed on leviathans and giant krakens and drown whole islands in her wroth. The Grey King built a mighty longhall about her bones, using her ribs as beams and rafters. From there he ruled the Iron Islands for a thousand years, until his very skin had turned as grey as his hair and beard.

Grey King, who got greyer and greyer.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

There's a good reason why Stone Drogon is called a beast and not a dragon. It's not going to look like a dragon. Drogo is the first head of the dragon, Euron is the second. Drogo was the mount to love, Euron is the mount to dread. Drogon has the characteristics of Drogo. Stone Drogon will take on the likeness of stone from Euron's greyscale, and he will also take on other qualities, physically and spiritually. I will edit in the foreshadowing of Stone Drogon's characteristics other than that of stone.

Why wouldn't he look like a dragon?  We don't really know what Euron/the dragon horn will do to dragons at this point.  Hell, we don't even know for sure that Euron will meet Drogon.  Is there any textual evidence for this at all, or is it just random conjecture?  It feels to me like this theory starts with assumptions that could really go either way at this point, and builds from there using vague symbolism as its only support.

Not every mention of grey in ASoIaF is a reference to greyscale.  Not every mention of black refers to Drogon.  This reminds me of a theory posted a few months ago where the OP was trying to figure out which great Westerosi houses were full of secret Targs, based on every single mention of dragons -- including currency.  Why can't it just be a motif, why does a color or an animal or a name have to mean the same exact thing every single time it's mentioned?  If it really worked that way, the symbolism would lead to a ridiculous and paradoxical plot.

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3 hours ago, Maxxine said:

Two Things

1) Where is Euron contracting greyscale from? Obviously not out of the realm of possibility but seems a bit random.

2) Can dragons contract greyscale? No indication of this being a possibility.

1) From Arya, because she is from the house of BLACK and WHITE - and that makes GREY.

2) They only can if they are BLACK dragons, because white walkers or something. Shazam!

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9 hours ago, FrostyDornishman said:

Why wouldn't he look like a dragon?  We don't really know what Euron/the dragon horn will do to dragons at this point.  Hell, we don't even know for sure that Euron will meet Drogon.  Is there any textual evidence for this at all, or is it just random conjecture?  It feels to me like this theory starts with assumptions that could really go either way at this point, and builds from there using vague symbolism as its only support.

Not every mention of grey in ASoIaF is a reference to greyscale.  Not every mention of black refers to Drogon.  This reminds me of a theory posted a few months ago where the OP was trying to figure out which great Westerosi houses were full of secret Targs, based on every single mention of dragons -- including currency.  Why can't it just be a motif, why does a color or an animal or a name have to mean the same exact thing every single time it's mentioned?  If it really worked that way, the symbolism would lead to a ridiculous and paradoxical plot.

You act as though the foreshadowing was taken in isolation. To take an example, tell me, what more appropriate symbolism is there for greyscale than a dead corpse with grey colouring? Or what's a more appropriate meaning than greyscale for a dead corpse with grey? Or are you arguing colouring can not be symbolism? Or that it just isn't in this case? Even when the vision is lumped in with that of "his silver" and "blue flowers"?

Or do you suggest we go literal? That there is a corpse on the prow of a ship with grey lips curled in a smile and nice shiny eyes, and that Dany is going to set herself on fire and marry it?

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I think the great stone beast is actually a stone direwolf transforming into a dragon. Jon Snow, the wolf turning into the dragon. Daenerys has tendency to deny things she dislike or hate, and seeing another dragon is not gonna please her.

The visions about lies are all about her threats, Stannis (rightful Baratheon king but false hero), fAegon (fraud) and Jon Snow (probably proved to be Rhaegar's rightful heir later, thus her rival claiment to the Iron Throne).

Since i actually dislike almost every characters in the story (I can't say that I love all of the characters in the book like GRRM), I don't really care much but Daenerys is set to be pitted against Jon as the antagonist because their interests are against each other.

I'm curious about the corpse with grey lips. I don't hate Aeron that much because he's too dumb to hate, but I really hate that depraved Euron to the core I'd be so pissed he'd be Daenerys' lover. I can't believe someone like Euron would ever have a contented death.

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19 minutes ago, Schwarze Sonne said:

I think the great stone beast is actually a stone direwolf transforming into a dragon. Jon Snow, the wolf turning into the dragon. Daenerys has tendency to deny things she dislike or hate, and seeing another dragon is not gonna please her.

The visions about lies are all about her threats, Stannis (rightful Baratheon king but false hero), fAegon (fraud) and Jon Snow (probably proved to be Rhaegar's rightful heir later, thus her rival claiment to the Iron Throne).

Since i actually dislike almost every characters in the story (I can't say that I love all of the characters in the book like GRRM), I don't really care much but Daenerys is set to be pitted against Jon as the antagonist because their interests are against each other.

I'm curious about the corpse with grey lips. I don't hate Aeron that much because he's too dumb to hate, but I really hate that depraved Euron to the core I'd be so pissed he'd be Daenerys' lover. I can't believe someone like Euron would ever have a contented death.

But the vision tells her about lies, not about rivals.

Stannis as AZOR AHAI - lie.

Aegon as a real Targaryen - lie.

Jon being a true Targaryen is not a lie, so it's not that.

In my opinion, it has to do with Euron and the Smoking Tower is Hightower.

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On 5/6/2016 at 7:20 PM, chrisdaw said:

You act as though the foreshadowing was taken in isolation. To take an example, tell me, what more appropriate symbolism is there for greyscale than a dead corpse with grey colouring? Or what's a more appropriate meaning than greyscale for a dead corpse with grey? Or are you arguing colouring can not be symbolism? Or that it just isn't in this case? Even when the vision is lumped in with that of "his silver" and "blue flowers"?

A grey corpse is pretty appropriate for greyscale.  But it's also vague enough to refer to death in general, or the threat of death and decay and weakness.  I feel like if GRRM wanted to more specifically allude to greyscale, he would include something about scaliness or stoniness or missing limbs in the same reference.  The idea that greyness is referenced over here and a stone beast is mentioned way over there doesn't feel to me like he's trying to point to the same thing.  The vision isn't lumped in with anything and that's a big problem.

Going literal would be silly, but so is cherry-picking these different uses of symbolism (symbolism that is, for the most part, so vague and maybe-not-even-there that one meaning is as unsupported as another at this point) and tossing them together into a theory that has little basis in what we know.  For instance, I know you said in the OP you don't want to get into how Euron will give Drogon greyscale, but you use it as the basis for the rest of your theory.  Where's Euron gonna get greyscale?  How's he gonna give it to a dragon he's half a world away from?  Can dragons contract greyscale?  We know none of this for sure.  It's completely unsupported.  Using the symbolism to prove the Euron-greyscale thing, that then supports the symbolism, leaves this with no solid textual foundation.

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On 5/6/2016 at 7:20 PM, chrisdaw said:

You act as though the foreshadowing was taken in isolation. To take an example, tell me, what more appropriate symbolism is there for greyscale than a dead corpse with grey colouring? Or what's a more appropriate meaning than greyscale for a dead corpse with grey? Or are you arguing colouring can not be symbolism? Or that it just isn't in this case? Even when the vision is lumped in with that of "his silver" and "blue flowers"?

A grey corpse is pretty appropriate for greyscale.  But it's also vague enough to refer to death in general, or the threat of death and decay and weakness.  I feel like if GRRM wanted to more specifically allude to greyscale, he would include something about scaliness or stoniness or missing limbs in the same reference.  The idea that greyness is referenced over here and a stone beast is mentioned way over there doesn't feel to me like he's trying to point to the same thing.  The vision isn't lumped in with anything and that's a big problem.

Going literal would be silly, but so is cherry-picking these different uses of symbolism (symbolism that is, for the most part, so vague and maybe-not-even-there that one meaning is as unsupported as another at this point) and tossing them together into a theory that has little basis in what we know.  For instance, I know you said in the OP you don't want to get into how Euron will give Drogon greyscale, but you use it as the basis for the rest of your theory.  Where's Euron gonna get greyscale?  How's he gonna give it to a dragon he's half a world away from?  Can dragons contract greyscale?  We know none of this for sure.  It's completely unsupported.  Using the symbolism to prove the Euron-greyscale thing, that then supports the symbolism, leaves this with no solid textual foundation.

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