Jon's attitude at the end

[jbob]

Just didn't make any sense to me. It never did.

I remember people book readers predicting that Jon Snow will abandon the NW after he comes back and maybe tells the NW to screw themselves and goes to win Winterfell with his Wildling army. Never agreed with it and still don't. It always seemed to me that Jon was sincere in his words and actions. He was doing what we was doing because there's this giant threat of the White Walkers coming. Him no longer being bound to the NW doesn't change that. So it never made sense he'd be this flippant about it all of a sudden. "Sorry, Edd, now the WW and the end of the world everyone is going to dies is now your problem. Now that seems inconsistent to me. Needs to be more to it than that don't you think? Winning the North and Winterfell should be tied to fighting the WW.

Also, Edd's probably going to get killed with no one there to protect him.

[C.T. Phipps]

I think the version on the show nicely showed what Jon is thinking. He feels he was horrifically betrayed and the Night's Watch Cloak means absolutely nothing to him.

Any sense of brotherhood, kinship, or duty it inspired is done.

He may hate the White Walkers but his reaction to the NW is now disgust.

[GilletteMace]

it made perfect sense, jon was dead. firstly he is tired of killing, his heart got mild concerning life and the white walker perspective seems to be better now that he knows there is nothing coming after death. at least he may be struggling with these thoughts, explaining his decision to simply leave. the experience of the nothingness after death must feel similar to an lsd trip now when i think of it... jon appreciates life and becomes more empathic after his trip to the other side.

getting stabbed by his "brothers" may have played a part too, lol.

[Direwolf named bob]

Sunken cost fallacy. You don't chase bad money and that's exactly what Jon is thinking. He gave the Night's Watch everything and realizes that leading them wont defeat the White Walkers. The NW has already sent out multiple Ravens and missives requesting aid. What did they get? A battered limping stannis army. By taking Winterfell and reuniting the the north its the closest thing Jon will get to mounting a true defense against the invading White Walker army.

[Mr Smith]

I'm fine with it. I think the show did a great job of conveying that Jon, while still being Jon to a degree, has changed somewhat, and clearly wants to make more of his life than what he has to this point. I didn't see the decision coming, but I thought it was excellently delivered. One of the best parts of the episode for me.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Well, I believed he would stay in the NW post-resurrection and reform it rather than become King in the North, but I guess I was wrong.   Your right in that I don't think he will just ignore the WW threat now that he has a new appreciation for life though.   

Perhaps he decides he can't save the realm while being shackled by the NW's vows and rules.  Maybe he reasons that he can only gather enough power to fight the WW by becoming a King and playing the Game of Thrones.  

He's probably not wrong in that regard.  All of the lords, North and South, ignored his ravens when he was LC.  The only way to compel them to prepare for the WW threat is to do it by threat of force, which only a King (or Queen) with an army can do really.  

[McAssey]

Jon will probably meet Sansa in the next episode, and she will fill him in on the situation in Winterfell.  Jon will probably also get a bird from Ramsay about Rikkon.  At some point Bran will learn Jon's true identity, and somehow communicate that to Jon (through the heart trees?).  These events will play a big part in Jon's next course of action.

[ummester]

The Jon stuff was good. It's probably the only bit of this season I have no complaints with, it's all being presented in a very subdued fashion, which is great.

[White Harbors Wrath]

1 hour ago, McAssey said:

Jon will probably meet Sansa in the next episode, and she will fill him in on the situation in Winterfell.  Jon will probably also get a bird from Ramsay about Rikkon.  At some point Bran will learn Jon's true identity, and somehow communicate that to Jon (through the heart trees?).  These events will play a big part in Jon's next course of action.

Smart man.

[Not a kneeler]

Of a rather patchy episode, this northern storyline was the best, and I include the business with Ramsey and Umber and Rikkon in as well. We, at least I, knew that Jon's time with the Nightwatch was drawing to a close. Jon's reaction was realistic and subdued without being boring.

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I think the version on the show nicely showed what Jon is thinking. He feels he was horrifically betrayed and the Night's Watch Cloak means absolutely nothing to him.

Any sense of brotherhood, kinship, or duty it inspired is done.

He may hate the White Walkers but his reaction to the NW is now disgust.

Basically this. He was all about sticking to his vows and honor, but when your honor and vows stab you in the back one too many times AND you realize that there is nothing waiting for you on the other side, well you will sorta change your lifeview.

[bb1180]

I thought his reaction made perfect sense.  He's just been thoroughly traumatized by his experience with death and the apparently nonexistent Westeros afterlife (which needs some explaining,  but whatever).  New Jon is largely the same as Old Jon.  He's still a good guy and a thoughtful guy. In that last scene,  he's realizes that he's executing them for doing what they thought they had to do,  which was exactly the same basic reason why they killed him.  And by the same token, Jon knew exactly what death meant for those four, the finality of it, and that everything they were or had ever been would be gone forever.  KH's portrayal in that last scene was fantastic. It was written all over Jon's face how painful that was for him, because he knew what it meant for them,  even given what they'd done to him. Everything since 5.10 has left him deeply disturbed disillusioned and emotionally shell-shocked,  with good reason. 

Cue Sansa's arrival at Castle Black. I think she's going to be the one that heals much of that damage and,  along with the Rickon situation (which he'll find out about soon enough), helps restore a sense of purpose to him. 

[Aerys III of his name]

4 hours ago, jbob said:

Just didn't make any sense to me. It never did.

I remember people book readers predicting that Jon Snow will abandon the NW after he comes back and maybe tells the NW to screw themselves and goes to win Winterfell with his Wildling army.

Well, the day after Ned Stark's death he was ready to leave them, but his 'brothers' convinced him with reason telling him in a good way he was alone and useless and condemned to death if he went south. When Stannis came he had the biggest chance to leave but he choose to stay just because of having 'pledged his life'. Now he's dead and back, and he has an army that believe he's a sort of god and ready to accept him as leader, nobody there will complain nor chase him about leaving the NW, he would be kind of dumb to still remain loyal, after all he can protect the realm of men even as king

[TheRevanchist]

It makes perfect sense what he did. First, his watch ended on his death, so he isn't under an oath.

Second, he sees that with just the NW, he cannot defeat the Others. So, I think that he is going to lead the Wildlings in an attack versus Boltons, and so unify the North. I also think that he basically installed a loyal commander to the NW, so in the end his army will be together with NW in the last battle.

[lojzelote]

I kind of hate that people on internet are saying he used a loophole... IMHO the loophole doesn't matter. He would have left even without it because he's desillusioned and pissed off. Besides, it's not like if anyone who wasn't at the Wall would believe him he's risen from the dead.

[TheRevanchist]

57 minutes ago, bb1180 said:

I thought his reaction made perfect sense.  He's just been thoroughly traumatized by his experience with death and the apparently nonexistent Westeros afterlife (which needs some explaining,  but whatever).  New Jon is largely the same as Old Jon.  He's still a good guy and a thoughtful guy. In that last scene,  he's realizes that he's executing them for doing what they thought they had to do,  which was exactly the same basic reason why they killed him.  And by the same token, Jon knew exactly what death meant for those four, the finality of it, and that everything they were or had ever been would be gone forever.  KH's portrayal in that last scene was fantastic. It was written all over Jon's face how painful that was for him, because he knew what it meant for them,  even given what they'd done to him. Everything since 5.10 has left him deeply disturbed disillusioned and emotionally shell-shocked,  with good reason. 

Cue Sansa's arrival at Castle Black. I think she's going to be the one that heals much of that damage and,  along with the Rickon situation (which he'll find out about soon enough), helps restore a sense of purpose to him. 

It really doesn't. It is fine, as it is.

[bb1180]

4 minutes ago, TheRevanchist said:

It really doesn't. It is fine, as it is.

I don't want this going off the main topic,  but the main issue I have with it is that we clearly have a supernatural aspect to this story,  including a main character who has just been resurrected.  Its strongly suggestive of a higher power at play.  There's an apparent discrepancy there,  and IMO,  its one that needs some kind of logical explanation if there actually isn't one.  

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

The last few episodes have me convinced that there is no AA in this series, it was all just a myth. There is no singular hero/heroine in this series. 

[Mourneblade]

2 hours ago, ummester said:

The Jon stuff was good. It's probably the only bit of this season I have no complaints with, it's all being presented in a very subdued fashion, which is great.

This. So much this.

 

People are complaining that Jon used the "Loophole" but I have been predicting this for years. Jon is not using it as a "Loophole", Jon was murdered by the Night's Watch "And now his watch has ended". How is this a loophole, It happened, Jon gave his life for the Night's Watch,  and that is exactly how Jon Feels about it period. Whether or not this happens this way in the books or not, at least D&D got the spirit of this whole thing and adapted it well. 

[Attitude]

1 hour ago, bb1180 said:

I don't want this going off the main topic,  but the main issue I have with it is that we clearly have a supernatural aspect to this story,  including a main character who has just been resurrected.  Its strongly suggestive of a higher power at play.  There's an apparent discrepancy there,  and IMO,  its one that needs some kind of logical explanation if there actually isn't one.  

Yes, there is a supernatural aspect in the story: Magic.
Magic revived Jon.