TV Arya disappointment! Deliberate weakening of another female character? Potential spoilers

[qhorin wholehand]

I don't think they're weakening her character at all. But it does disappointment me that they haven't and may not have her warg ever.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

"Deliberate weakening of [another] female character." I don't think so.  The nature of self and identity is a major theme in Arya's story and she is "no one" now.  The fact that she hasn't warged a cat (yet) doesn't diminish that.

I'm holding out hope that her warging abilities will manifest and her wolf dreams will be a catalyst in rediscovering "Arya Stark".

 

 

7 hours ago, WolfQueenArya said:

I am disappoints in the lack of her warging too. But that doesn't mean they are weakening her character. She learns to fight blind and to me, the training montage was pretty badass. They showed her learning poisons, talking about her family, the Hound, and her list, which made her vulnerable but strong at the same time. There is still hope they will keep some sort of connection between her and Nymeria, which I still think they reunite by the end of the season. 

 

Yes i still have hope too but there's been no mention of it. The scene with the cat was something i was really looking forward too - just seeing the cat & possibly her eyes flicker momentarily (just a blink really). 

Arya hasn't been trained to harness her warging skills to the best of her ability yet. With time she could control the animals well too. But just the fact that she can use her body & the cats simultaneously means that her abilities are special and also far reaching when she can still sense Nymeria from another continent altogether.

With the weakening comment, i still think TV Arya is strong but book Arya is stronger as she has her abilities on top of everything else.

[ShadowKitteh]

9 hours ago, Ankou said:

What do you mean yet another female character? If anything the show has turned women into unstoppable terminators. 

This!!!

Honestly. I don't get the constant complaining about this show.

if you don't like it, don't watch. What other shows do these people whine about? Do they watch Walking Dead and complain that there's too many zombies?

[Jon Snow Bengal]

8 hours ago, Vernon Roche said:

I doubt it's been done with any intention of "weakening" Arya, the decision to only give Bran the warging powers in the show I can only presume is so he can have something unique about him to make him interesting. Jon and Arya have much more fleshed out and engaging plot lines than Bran, if they both warged too he'd be even more marginalised as a point of interest.

Good point!

[ShadowKitteh]

And how much whining would there be, at this point, if they introduced ANY other warging Stark? 

The Puristani™ would level the Titanic Studios with their cries. 

I missed it until season 4, then I got over it.

Bran being The Great Warg, is more than fine for the show.

Stop looking for things to be mad at. 

[Jon Snow Bengal]

1 minute ago, ShadowKitteh said:

And how much whining would there be, at this point, if they introduced ANY other warging Stark? 

The Puristani™ would level the Titanic Studios with their cries. 

I missed it until season 4, then I got over it.

Bran being The Great Warg, is more than fine for the show.

 

Stop looking for things to be mad at. 

I doubt that anyone would be whining at all as everyone loves Arya & warging is awesome.

I don't get sick of seeing the dragons ever, nor the dire wolves. 

To have a Great Warg then there must be lessor wargs and it is supposed to be a special ability especially strong with Starks. I always thought it would be useful when the battle comes against the white walkers. It can't just be Bran. Together Stronger. Wolves are pack animals. There has to be something in the Starks "Winter is coming".

Yes i agree it is "fine", but I'd just like it to be better than "fine". You're right that i just need to get over it *sigh*. 

I really like fighting Arya but fighting/warging Arya is just cooler

[ShadowKitteh]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

I doubt that anyone would be whining at all as everyone loves Arya & warging is awesome.

I don't get sick of seeing the dragons ever, nor the dire wolves. 

To have a Great Warg then there must be lessor wargs and it is supposed to be a special ability especially strong with Starks. I always thought it would be useful when the battle comes against the white walkers. It can't just be Bran. Together Stronger. Wolves are pack animals. There has to be something in the Starks "Winter is coming".

Yes i agree it is "fine", but I'd just like it to be better than "fine". You're right that i just need to get over it *sigh*. 

I really like fighting Arya but fighting/warging Arya is just cooler

I don't disagree, at all. But I think it's smart for the show.

We've had other wargs, Orell, and that Then. That's enough to make Bran seem awesome, and one of a kind in how awesome/talented, yet not confuse the non-book reading audience.

I have some very smart friends. Professional scriptwriters, directors, DPs, etc. All of which ask me repeatedly for names of certain characters, so they can keep it all straight in their heads. Every non-bookreader in my living room on Sunday, and they were 4 out of 7, asked who Rickon was. 

[Mayura]

It's the show, we've established for a long time they're not doing a books to screen transcription so... 

Honestly, the story is already complicated enough for the "show only". Some of the ones I know already have difficulties understanding Bran's abilities although they understood it makes him "special". 

[Jon Snow Bengal]

1 hour ago, Mayura said:

It's the show, we've established for a long time they're not doing a books to screen transcription so... 

Honestly, the story is already complicated enough for the "show only". Some of the ones I know already have difficulties understanding Bran's abilities although they understood it makes him "special". 

Yes, no one really understands completely - which is why we come on here to discuss & analyse and help each other. 

I know its the show, however, i feel that the Starks strong warging abilities is quite central to the story and the theme of "Winter is coming". Bran being the only Stark who has displayed warging abilities is not enough to carry this message.

[Faolchú]

11 hours ago, Ankou said:

What do you mean yet another female character? If anything the show has turned women into unstoppable terminators. 

I'd believe that if D&D stuck to the books and Catelyn was around.... :B

[Jon Snow Bengal]

1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I have some very smart friends. Professional scriptwriters, directors, DPs, etc. All of which ask me repeatedly for names of certain characters, so they can keep it all straight in their heads. Every non-bookreader in my living room on Sunday, and they were 4 out of 7, asked who Rickon was. 

But did they remember Shaggy dog? (Shaggy dog!!!!!  )

The fact that it is complicated is what keeps people thinking, analysing and motivated. If it weren't complicated there wouldn't be forums like this as people would already have all the answers and there would be no need for further study. No need to dumb down the complications, simplify yes but dumb down no because the audience loves the complications, the audience loves the mystery of not understanding and the journey & anticipation of the final resolution. This is why the show is so popular and everyone just talks about it to death.

So in order to 'let go' (for the show) do we need to let go of the fact that STARKS as a genetic line, have strong warging abilities? And do we have to let go of the proposed notion of Starks having a special abilities/strengths during the winter (Winter is coming)? Because i really think it would be such a shame. To my mind it is an important part of the story and i still have hope....

[Mayura]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

Yes, no one really understands completely - which is why we come on here to discuss & analyse and help each other. 

I know its the show, however, i feel that the Starks strong warging abilities is quite central to the story and the theme of "Winter is coming". Bran being the only Stark who has displayed warging abilities is not enough to carry this message.

Well, it is obvious the Starks warning abilities aren't central to the story they developed in the show. They've always hinted there was a connection between the Starks and their respective direwolf but they didn't clearly show that Arya, Robb or Jon had warging abilities. 

So I understand you might be disappointed because the warging aspect is important to you but I disagree entirely with your statement. I think the show conveyed what they needed to convey: each one of the Starks has a special link with their direwolf but the link between Bran and Summer is stronger and Bran's powers are somewhat unique. They didn't need to overcomplicate the show imo. 

[TheMountainDew]

13 minutes ago, Mayura said:

Well, it is obvious the Starks warning abilities aren't central to the story they developed in the show. They've always hinted there was a connection between the Starks and their respective direwolf but they didn't clearly show that Arya, Robb or Jon had warging abilities. 

So I understand you might be disappointed because the warging aspect is important to you but I disagree entirely with your statement. I think the show conveyed what they needed to convey: each one of the Starks has a special link with their direwolf but the link between Bran and Summer is stronger and Bran's powers are somewhat unique. They didn't need to overcomplicate the show imo. 

I think without having Bran as the one with the most distinct relationship with his direwolf is more important in the show than in the book as otherwise his story isn't really worthy of screen time. If we had all the remaining Starks warging left, right and centre, I feel that it would diminish the importance of Bran's role in the entire story so far. Just my opinion. :-)

[Ludo Kressh]

11 hours ago, Tyrion's Third Wife said:

I don't think she's been weakened. But damn if I can figure out how her journey is going to fit into the great threat from the north.

I think her story(if or when she returns to Westeros) is going to center in the Riverlands. Her story arc has been about revenge and killing those on her list. Somehow she'll run afoul of the Faceless men again and have to flee; then return to what she was meant to do: kill the Freys.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Weakning Arya? Lol

She has killed men twice her size and 3 times her age in single combat. Even a kingsguard.

D&D have cut most of the warging since the beginning. Jon never wargs, Varamyr Six-skins didn't even appear, I their minds if something isnt important enough they don't bother showing it.

[WolfQueenArya]

5 hours ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

Yes, no one really understands completely - which is why we come on here to discuss & analyse and help each other. 

I know its the show, however, i feel that the Starks strong warging abilities is quite central to the story and the theme of "Winter is coming". Bran being the only Stark who has displayed warging abilities is not enough to carry this message.

I agree. It's this season or never for Arya and Jon to join in with their warging abilities. I believe more than one warg would definitely help in the fight with the white walkers. Plus it's important character development too. 

[Maxxine]

Even though she's my favorite character, there's no way she's a better warg than Bran. She's probably second in the family. At this point, she can't even warg on command like Bran can. She's just having wolf dreams. Maybe she's warging the cat on command, but it's not clear. I don't think the show's lack of her warging ability is meant to weaken her as a female character. I just think in tv some things have to be cut. They haven't shown Jon as a warg either even though I think it's mentioned by the wildlings. I do predict she'll have a Nymeria wolf dream eventually though. 

[Stangler]

Did Arya ever control the animal she was looking through? Warging always started with the human seeing what the animal was doing but not having control. Bran is the only Stark that actually controls the animal. 

I didn't miss the cat sight as much as I miss her reports about the 3 things she learned every day. The idea that she is being taught how to do more than just fight is very important to her training. She is learning to serve and to listen. She is learning to be patient and silent. She isn't just supposed to be some awesome fighter but a shadow. 

Add in a pack of wolves that have her back is just icing on the cake. 

[Tyrek Lannister]

Weakening? She has actually made progress since 5x10. As for warging, the show seems not to go for it. Oh well. Hopefully that doesn't mean that Nymeria's superpack is cut completely.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

39 minutes ago, Noveson said:

 

For one thing Arya in the show is even more of a badass...meryn trant anyone? And then you act like they are taking away Arya's power to make her weak, in an attempt to make everything look misogynistic, while completely ignoring that Jon lost the exact same power.  And where the hell did you get the idea Arya was a stronger warg than Bran?  Arya has glanced through the eyes of a couple animals...Even before the one-eye crow Bran was controlling his wolf, AND CONTROLLING HODOR 

Yes that was a good scene with Meryn Trant. Good point! I can't remember if in the books it was sexualised so much though? It was definitely a vehicle to show more tits & blood and maybe a more warped kind of sexuallity (kiddy sex) to make the brutal killing of Meryn more satisfying to the audience.

I could talk about Jon Snow as well but his warg power was different to Aryas, Aryas seemed more unique as she could consciously use the animals senses whilst still maintaining control of her own body - Jon and Bran never did this. I also made the comment about Arya sensing Nymeria from another continent so her skills were far reaching & seemed further reaching than (pre-tree) Bran & Jon who sometimes could not sense their dire wolves - but that is the books and this is the TV show.

Even though this is the TV show, I still believe that the Starks special connection with Winter & notably Direwolves would be easily strengthened  from another "Stark" demonstrating warg abilities -even fleetingly (through the cats eyes). "Magical powers" are supposedly getting stronger so it would be logical that this would be too. It's okay if they don't as the connection may (hopefully) be revealed in another way which i am looking forward to.