Noveson Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said: Yes that was a good scene with Meryn Trant. Good point! I can't remember if in the books it was sexualised so much though? It was definitely a vehicle to show more tits & blood and maybe a more warped kind of sexuallity (kiddy sex) to make the brutal killing of Meryn more satisfying to the audience. I could talk about Jon Snow as well but his warg power was different to Aryas, Aryas seemed more unique as she could consciously use the animals senses whilst still maintaining control of her own body - Jon and Bran never did this. I also made the comment about Arya sensing Nymeria from another continent so her skills were far reaching & seemed further reaching than (pre-tree) Bran & Jon who sometimes could not sense their dire wolves - but that is the books and this is the TV show. Even though this is the TV show, I still believe that the Starks special connection with Winter & notably Direwolves would be easily strengthened from another "Stark" demonstrating warg abilities -even fleetingly (through the cats eyes). "Magical powers" are supposedly getting stronger so it would be logical that this would be too. It's okay if they don't as the connection may (hopefully) be revealed in another way which i am looking forward to. ...See most of the rest of things you say I agree with. I don' tknow why you have to stage this feelings behind "another deliberate weakening of a female character". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roboginger Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 20 hours ago, Ankou said: What do you mean yet another female character? If anything the show has turned women into unstoppable terminators. ^ most of the Female characters are not weakened if anything they emphasized their Strength on the TV Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcorpyo001 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 5 hours ago, TheMountainDew said: I think without having Bran as the one with the most distinct relationship with his direwolf is more important in the show than in the book as otherwise his story isn't really worthy of screen time. If we had all the remaining Starks warging left, right and centre, I feel that it would diminish the importance of Bran's role in the entire story so far. Just my opinion. :-) Bran’s unique ability is being a super greenseer, the most powerful in living memory. 3ER has waited 1000 years for him. He can also interact with the past, although both 3ER and the children of the forest seem to think this is impossible(or are just hiding it). 3ER seem to think Bran plays a very important role in deciding the fate of the world. That makes him quite unique. So why have him sole owner of the Stark warging as well? We know that being a warg isn’t needed for having green dreams. Jojen has them and he’s not a warg. They chose to remove the warging from the other Starks because it was cheaper that way. They needed more CGI for the dragons, and the direwolfs had to bite the bullet so to speak. Warging has a pivotal role in both Arya’s training and keeping her anchored to her Stark roots, and in Jon’s resurrection, at least in the books. But they couldn’t afford all the CGI, and they decided to cut it out completely. It’s a loss, but it is what it is. As for the op, Arya isn’t the only one hurt by this, so you’ll want to rephrase your statement. It’s not 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Bengal Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 57 minutes ago, Noveson said: See most of the rest of things you say I agree with. I don' tknow why you have to stage this feelings behind "another deliberate weakening of a female character". Oh well, no ones perfect. Weakening doesn't mean "weak" it just means that she is weaker than if she had warging abilities too. To my definition, taking away one of her key powers is weakening. Maybe it applies to Jon too but he actually never used it as a weapon for advantage like Arya did so its different. Don't need much cgi budget for a cat! Anyway, do you have any idea in regards to the Starks special strength in connection with Winter if they are not going to warg Direwolves or other animals? BTW Just because you agree with me or I with you, doesn't mean either one of us is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Book Arya was blind when she used the cats eyes. This is maybe why she could use them and still move her own body. If anything, removing her warging abilities makes her stronger. Instead of relying on Cat eyes, she's learning to fight without sight and completely trusting her other senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Bengal Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 55 minutes ago, Lord Lyman said: Book Arya was blind when she used the cats eyes. This is maybe why she could use them and still move her own body. If anything, removing her warging abilities makes her stronger. Instead of relying on Cat eyes, she's learning to fight without sight and completely trusting her other senses. That's an interesting point of view & I like it. It would be cool if she has a new water dancing master to finish her bravosi sword fighter training. I'm really interested in seeing what she will be up to next. One thing to note is that if she ever does warg, even fleetingly, she would quickly remember who she is- Arya Stark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Sand Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I was slightly disappointed not to see the cat, but learning to perceive the Waif's attacks without sight was just as impressive. A good episode for Arya this week. I'm open about whether she is shown warging Nymeria in the future; in the books it seems as if it may be a significant plotline, but so far there's no suggestion in the series that it will necessarily be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Jon Snow Bengal said: Yes that was a good scene with Meryn Trant. Good point! I can't remember if in the books it was sexualised so much though? It was definitely a vehicle to show more tits & blood and maybe a more warped kind of sexuallity (kiddy sex) to make the brutal killing of Meryn more satisfying to the audience. That's because none of that happened in the books. It's actually a parallel from an early WOW chapter release, where she kills a different guy. Meryn Trant is still alive in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 16 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said: And how much whining would there be, at this point, if they introduced ANY other warging Stark? The Puristani™ would level the Titanic Studios with their cries. I missed it until season 4, then I got over it. Bran being The Great Warg, is more than fine for the show. Stop looking for things to be mad at. No. Joke. Arya's story is not weakened in the manner the OP is suggesting. Its interesting that her story is still the wild card, and its really hard to guess where shes gonna wind up in both mediums. Arya's character development is pretty pronounced. Shes one of the strongest characterized characters on the damn show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Weakening another female character? Dany is arguably the most powerful ruler in Essos. Cersie is basically the only person running the Red Keep with Tommen being a pushover. Ellaria just usurped Dorne. "Yara" is now fighting to be the leader of the Ironborn Arya is becoming part of the most deadly group of assasins in the world Mel has consistently been the most powerful person in any storyline she's been in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, lancerman said: Weakening another female character? Dany is arguably the most powerful ruler in Essos. Cersie is basically the only person running the Red Keep with Tommen being a pushover. Ellaria just usurped Dorne. "Yara" is now fighting to be the leader of the Ironborn Arya is becoming part of the most deadly group of assasins in the world Mel has consistently been the most powerful person in any storyline she's been in. And Brienne is like a thwomp of death. The only one who did get weakened, was Sansa. And while im still salty about it, i have a feeling shes gonna do something cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Funny, I thought this was here best scene in a long time. And it had nothing to do with weakening of her character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 If anything's disappointing about her storyline it's the glacial pace (which comes straight from the books), not the showrunners' secret agenda of deliberately weakening female characters. I mean, yeah, the thing with the damn cat would've been cool in like a Daredevil sort of way, but it's not the end of the world that they cut it and it doesn't make her weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 It's pretty much the same thing as the books minus the warging. I don't get how that's weakening her character. If anything it makes her stronger because she's doing this without the aid of magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcorpyo001 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 7 minutes ago, RoamingRonin said: It's pretty much the same thing as the books minus the warging. I don't get how that's weakening her character. If anything it makes her stronger because she's doing this without the aid of magic. Yah, like the FF changing faces at will and also get the memories of the dead guy whose face they are wearing is magic free. I think her being a warg(so having some sort of magical affinity) is the only thing that got her in the temple to begin with. Not many people have the ability to use magic, in one of it’s forms. Both Thoros and Mel tell us in their chapters/conversation that they were picked up by the temple of the Red God because they were ‘gifted’. Translation, they had an affinity for magic. And by that I mean fire related magic. They are brainwashed to believe that it's some god acting through them, when in fact it’s their own power. So, if Arya is normal, she can’t use magic, hence she can’t become a full FF member, so no story at all. As a matter of fact, I think the FF face swap(and by that the get the memory part of it) is actually some sort of a reverse warging. When they prepare the faces, they do some blood magic to tie the soul of that person to the ‘mask’ itself. When a FF uses one mask, they bond with that soul piece(or what’s left of it), getting some of their traits and memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petite Psycophant Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 The showrunners are condensing all the storylines to the core in order to move the plot forward. There's no conspiracy to make the female characters weaker or that they hate certain characters or any other nonesense. There's also time and budget constrains. Do you know how much it costs to CGI a rabid pack of wolves led by a direwolf? Do you know how much time is lost trying to get a cat to act right for the cameras? They're main goal is to propell the story forward so they'll get to the warging once it actually matters and actually has a use to the plot. Not any time sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Bengal Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Petite Psycophant said: The showrunners are condensing all the storylines to the core in order to move the plot forward. There's no conspiracy to make the female characters weaker or that they hate certain characters or any other nonesense. There's also time and budget constrains. Do you know how much it costs to CGI a rabid pack of wolves led by a direwolf? Do you know how much time is lost trying to get a cat to act right for the cameras? They're main goal is to propell the story forward so they'll get to the warging once it actually matters and actually has a use to the plot. Not any time sooner. There's no guarantee that they will do any warging outside of Bran. For the record i never said Arya was weak (quite the opposite!), the comment is that Arya without warging power is weaker (or less strong) than Arya with warging power, however, as another poster pointed out Arya might even be more exceptional without the warging as she can show that she doesn't even need magic to be strong. I don't think that they make the female characters weaker on purpose but there is an obvious mismatch when it comes to nudity and sex in general. I hope that your last sentence is right because I feel it is integral to the Stark storyline & the storyline in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Bengal Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 6 hours ago, Florina Laufeyson said: And Brienne is like a thwomp of death. The only one who did get weakened, was Sansa. And while im still salty about it, i have a feeling shes gonna do something cool too. Is Littlefinger Sansas only hope? It seems that many northern houses are happy to turn against the Starks. Remember when Sansa explained that Lysa killed herself - do you remember who she was explaining it to? Who were those people? They 'seemed' loyal to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinka10 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 On 09/05/2016 at 7:34 AM, Ankou said: What do you mean yet another female character? If anything the show has turned women into unstoppable terminators. This. Who needs warging anyway? It works in the books (although, will admit, I've never been a fan of it), but not for television. That's just another unnecessary complication that D&D have wisely avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastLibrarian Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Florina Laufeyson said: And Brienne is like a thwomp of death. The only one who did get weakened, was Sansa. And while im still salty about it, i have a feeling shes gonna do something cool too. I don't think sansa will do anything this season, I'm a big fan of sansa but let's be real here :I think that the Jon/Davos duo and their war against the boltons will send her and her storyline to oblivion For three episodes the only thing I saw is Jon storyline, it's just Sophie making the hype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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