Jump to content

Why the surprise? (SPOILERS)


Ankou

Recommended Posts

On 5/13/2016 at 7:17 AM, dbunting said:

Glad to see you follow forum etiquette and add something to a conversation and don't just post to post. Why bother quoting something if you aren't going to add, detract or expand on it?

Apologies, i don't always add, detract or expand on quotes, nor do I always color in the lines on forum etiquette but when I do, I post responsibly. Stay proper my friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Totally agree with everything you said, except, Ned told everyone Jon was his son, in both book and show, and several characters talk about it. That's still lying.

Several characters talk about it because they believe it to be the case. Arguably allowing people to believe a lie is lying, but it is frequently held not to be so. Quite definitely he describes Jon  as 'my blood' at various points in the book and I do not recall him ever calling him 'my son'. This is part of the clues we are given that he is both not his son but still somehow closely related.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, sandpiper said:

Several characters talk about it because they believe it to be the case. Arguably allowing people to believe a lie is lying, but it is frequently held not to be so. Quite definitely he describes Jon  as 'my blood' at various points in the book and I do not recall him ever calling him 'my son'. This is part of the clues we are given that he is both not his son but still somehow closely related.

Ned says "You may not have my name, but you have my blood" to Jon. To Jon, specifically, he doesn't lie at that moment. But he did initially to Cat and everyone else upon his return to Winterfell. That is established. I think that line is a specific hint to the audience about Jon's parentage.

It's never been implied in either book or show that Ned never said outright that Jon was his son, only implying it. He even tells Robert the name of his bastard's mother when asked. 

He did tell Cat to never ask about it in the books.

I don't agree that Ned never claimed Jon outright, and only implied he was his father, allowing everyone else to tell the lie for him. We know Ned is capable of lying. He lied about Joffrey's legitimacy just before he was executed. 

Having Ned never say it, and having everyone else just jump to the Bastard conclusion, seems silly to the extreme.

There are no black/white characters in ASOIAF. They're grey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
On 5/17/2016 at 11:23 AM, ShadowKitteh said:

Ned says "You may not have my name, but you have my blood" to Jon. To Jon, specifically, he doesn't lie at that moment. But he did initially to Cat and everyone else upon his return to Winterfell. That is established. I think that line is a specific hint to the audience about Jon's parentage.

It's never been implied in either book or show that Ned never said outright that Jon was his son, only implying it. He even tells Robert the name of his bastard's mother when asked. 

He did tell Cat to never ask about it in the books.

I don't agree that Ned never claimed Jon outright, and only implied he was his father, allowing everyone else to tell the lie for him. We know Ned is capable of lying. He lied about Joffrey's legitimacy just before he was executed. 

Having Ned never say it, and having everyone else just jump to the Bastard conclusion, seems silly to the extreme.

There are no black/white characters in ASOIAF. They're grey.

Actually in one of Cat's POV chapters in GoT there is a line where Ned did claim Jon as his son for all the North to hear. Other than that, it was never mentioned again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was shocked at this scene because in the books all the build up about Howland Reed made me suspect he was a total badass in combat. Then when I go back to the books and the passages I realize it is more to the way he and the crannogmen fight that has people on edge wondering where they are, and specifically where he is. So what I got from this episode was not what I wanted, but a better understanding. Howland Reed does not give a shit about honor in combat. He fights to win, and in war the winner is the one left alive. The look he gave Ned after he shanked Arthur was "You gonna finish this mother fucker or am I?".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...