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D2procon

Bran Time Paradox Theory

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I was reading through reddit and found something interesting which just might tie in everything in the show together.

In S06E03 during the Tower of Joy Scene, we saw Ned turning around briefly when Bran calls him. The question is did Bran actually alter the past or did Ned always hear something and turn around? If it is the former, then essentially Bran rewrote history. Why is this important?

It has been said that the Mad King heard voices that drove him mad. What if the voices were that of Bran trying to reason with the mad king in the throne room. Perhaps Bran tried to fix things but ended up making things worse. Mad King Aerys burns Bran's grandfather alive while Bran frantically tries to stop him. Bran sets the events in the show in motion. To make things even more interesting, perhaps Bran tried to warn Aery's of the others stating the only way to stop them was to 'BURN THEM ALL'. Or it could be that the Mad King's madness are just whispers of the three-eyed raven trying to influence/change/save the realm and so he warns Bran about writing history.  When Ned turned his head but couldn't see Bran, this is when the three-eyed raven saw it dangerous and pulled him out.

I remember in an interview long ago in which GRRM said he intended the show to be written in the POV of Bran. Now we know why.

 

 

 

 

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I don't think it's possible to alter the past. To do so could mean that Bran alters it just enough where he may never actually get to the three-eyed raven and have the opportunity to alter the past, thus creating a paradox. I think even the three-eyed raven says in the show that history is set in stone. I do believe its possible for him to alter current events.

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I like the idea of Bran being able to communicate with people over vast distances in real time, but any alteration of the past would seriously piss me off.   

So I prefer the theory that BR was the source of the 'whispers' in Aerys ears (in real time!!) that made him paranoid and crazy.  Basically, he tried to save his house by warning Aerys of the "southron ambitions" of some lords, but wound up destroying his house instead.  That's a cool theory and it makes more sense than Bran doing it imo.    

 

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I think he has that power. But a different thing is whether or not he will make use of it, when, and at what extense,

What we saw in this episode....concerning to the books...

Spoiler

mirrors a similar scene when Bran also says "Father" to a young Ned, in another vision.

If it wasn't of importance they  wouldn't have included it.

After all the show doesn't like adaptating minor things from the books.

 

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Bran seems to be able to talk through trees(to Theon) and animals (through crows) but I am not sure how well it works talking through wind or into the past. 

I don't think Bran can change what happened but I think he may be able to impact the past. So things may be the way they are because of something Bran already did in the past but hasn't done yet in the present. 

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I believe he can alter the past in the books but they will probably gloss over such a concept in the show.

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15 hours ago, Wrycthen said:

I believe he can alter the past in the books but they will probably gloss over such a concept in the show.

If he can alter the past in the books, I seriously hope they DO gloss over it in the show.  And I hate to think what will happen in the books if he can.  GRRM will end up writing himself down such dead allies that we won't get TWOW, let alone the end of the series!

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I don't think they intend to go there since there is no evidence in the book that his whispers affect anybody's decision.   The show seems to take liberties in combining green sight with the Tree Vision.   Times seems to fly for normal people while the trees last for centuries so there is some concept that time is perceived differently for the weirwoods.   I think it is more like concept that time is so slow for Tree that their concept of Now is just stretched as compared to humans when Bran looks through Tree's eyes.

It suggests that time is linear and unchanging in GRRM's world since even in scenes before Bran people hear whispers while praying before the Trees.   Bran or Bloodravens interference is woven into the timeline of the observer and not an alternate past.   The idea that someone is actually looking through the eyes of the weirwood has likely added to the mysticism of the trees and the Old gods religion.   People have revered these trees for thousands of years for this quality.   Unique and infrequent experience would lend itself more to a changed timeline.....but I think the Old Gods religion would have not lasted in favor of seven in the North if this were the case.

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"The ink is dry." I don't think the 3ER meant that Bran cannot affect time, rather that he cannot change what already was written. Ned always heard something. Anything Bran will do to try and affect the past was already part of history, IMO.

It would be interesting to see Bran be the catalyst of some things we have already seen, like Aegon's voices. Perhaps he ends up being the reason Hodor's mind breaks (trying to warg through time maybe?). If he tries to meddle too much, he could be the cause of a lot of the misery that has befallen Westeros. But change history? I don't think it'll work that way. 

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Well Bran is essentially jacked into their very religion via nature itself. If he can speak to the past and possibly future through the trees, he can definitely influence outcomes * if * he learns to communicate full words.

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1 hour ago, Castigear said:

"The ink is dry." I don't think the 3ER meant that Bran cannot affect time, rather that he cannot change what already was written. Ned always heard something. Anything Bran will do to try and affect the past was already part of history, IMO.

It would be interesting to see Bran be the catalyst of some things we have already seen, like Aegon's voices. Perhaps he ends up being the reason Hodor's mind breaks (trying to warg through time maybe?). If he tries to meddle too much, he could be the cause of a lot of the misery that has befallen Westeros. But change history? I don't think it'll work that way. 

That's a good theory.

So maybe what has happened did have a Bran's action behind. But has it to be repeated again or is he able to create another timeline?

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20 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

That's a good theory.

So maybe what has happened did have a Bran's action behind. But has it to be repeated again or is he able to create another timeline?

If this is the time travel theory that the're going with, then he doesn't have a choice. He WILL meddle, because the effects of his meddling happened in the past already. The past is written, and the future (as it relates to the past) is destined. 

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2 minutes ago, Castigear said:

If this is the time travel theory that the're going with, then he doesn't have a choice. He WILL meddle, because the effects of his meddling happened in the past already. The past is written, and the future (as it relates to the past) is destined. 

Yes, in theory. That's thrilling....so TOJ had a Bran saying " Father" in the past? Wow.....I can't wait for his story!

The oter explanation is that there are multiple universes, because of different timelines.

Maybe the magic of the Forest and BR knows about the past actions of Bran in the past and he wants the new Bran to behave differently, causing a new timeline.

Anyway, this is full of paradoxes.

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Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, in theory. That's thrilling....so TOJ had a Bran saying " Father" in the past? Wow.....I can't wait for his story!

The oter explanation is that there are multiple universes, because of different timelines.

Maybe the magic of the Forest and BR knows about the past actions of Bran in the past and he wants the new Bran to behave differently, causing a new timeline.

Anyway, this is full of paradoxes.

I've always felt that multiple timelines weaken a story, unless the story is specifically about those multiple timelines. A story where a hero has both won AND lost diminishes the stakes IMO. I prefer the immutable timeline, where everything is set in stone. Again unless the story is specifically about time travel, which this isn't. With an immutable timeline there are no paradoxes, and nothing timey-wimey. 

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1 minute ago, Castigear said:

I've always felt that multiple timelines weaken a story, unless the story is specifically about those multiple timelines. A story where a hero has both won AND lost diminishes the stakes IMO. I prefer the immutable timeline, where everything is set in stone. Again unless the story is specifically about time travel, which this isn't. With an immutable timeline there are no paradoxes, and nothing timey-wimey. 

Times paradoxes would explain whu GRRM has difficulties in writing the 6th book.......(just kidding, but it's real)

I don't think that there will be major alterations if that is the case. But minor things and an implied new timeline if it's necessary...I wouldn't discard it since it's very strange both the show and the book included Ned hearing Bran's voice....I don't know.

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In the books, didn't Theek also possibly hear Bran through Winterfell's heart tree?  Maybe Bran will influence something in the past only to learn more of the harsh lessons of "unintended consequences"? :dunno: 

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What if EVERYTHING is literally ALL BRAN'S FAULT!? :P
 

Rhaegar doesn't even notice Lyanna Stark. He hears a voice saying "ignore Lyanna Stark". Rhaegar immediately notices Lyanna and falls in love. 

The Mad King actually isn't mad at all, it's just Bran constantly in his ear saying "please don't get mad, please don't use the wildfire mate".

Robert Baratheon awakes, hungover and pissing over himself. He hears a voice telling him "don't go hunting today! it'll be dangerous!" Ever proud, King Robert decides to go hunting and meets a boar... 

Joffrey doesn't want to be-head Ned Stark. Joffrey hears a voice saying "don't behead Ned Stark". Spooked, Joffrey beheads Ned Stark. 

#ThanksBran #BlameBran 

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23 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

What if EVERYTHING is literally ALL BRAN'S FAULT!? :P
 

Rhaegar doesn't even notice Lyanna Stark. He hears a voice saying "ignore Lyanna Stark". Rhaegar immediately notices Lyanna and falls in love. 

The Mad King actually isn't mad at all, it's just Bran constantly in his ear saying "please don't get mad, please don't use the wildfire mate".

Robert Baratheon awakes, hungover and pissing over himself. He hears a voice telling him "don't go hunting today! it'll be dangerous!" Ever proud, King Robert decides to go hunting and meets a boar... 

Joffrey doesn't want to be-head Ned Stark. Joffrey hears a voice saying "don't behead Ned Stark". Spooked, Joffrey beheads Ned Stark. 

#ThanksBran #BlameBran 

 


Some Butterfly Effect shit right there. Also ending of ep 5 reminded me of the end of "12 Monkeys" where the main char witnessed his own death when he was a child. Crazy stuff, both powerful endings.

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On 5/10/2016 at 9:20 AM, Lord Lyman said:

I don't think it's possible to alter the past. To do so could mean that Bran alters it just enough where he may never actually get to the three-eyed raven and have the opportunity to alter the past, thus creating a paradox. I think even the three-eyed raven says in the show that history is set in stone. I do believe its possible for him to alter current events.

 

This has a decent chunk of credence considering that Bran doesn't have the power to see the future in the show.

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