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Silverwing's Egg


Lost Melnibonean

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The only other thread I found on this was closed a few years ago, so here's a  new one. 

I like Fire Eater's suggestion that Jon is the egg at the Wall as hinted at by Samwell...

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There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind? Or had Stannis found one egg on Dragonstone? Even if he has an egg, how can he hope to quicken it? Baelor the Blessed had prayed over his eggs, and other Targaryens had sought to hatch theirs with sorcery. All they got for it was farce and tragedy.

Samwell I, Feast 5

I don't believe we will be seeing any new dragons (unless maybe Euron is hiding one), since it would take too long for them to mature, and it would lessen Daenerys's role as the Mother of Dragons. 

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I like the idea of Jon as the hatching dragon egg.

I also think there is a deliberate connection between Baelor the Blessed and Bael the Bard - the similar-sounding names are a hint to the reader that we are supposed to make a connection between these legendary figures. So having Baelor mentioned by Sam in this context seems significant. (Personally, I think Jon was born in the North somewhere, probably the Winterfell crypt where Lyanna would have been hiding before she went south. I know, I know - the timeline, Robb is older, blah blah blah. But the Bael the Bard story becomes more relevant if I'm right, and this would underscore your "Jon as egg" notion.)

I do think there will be more dragons, though. I think there is going to be some kind of major development around Queen Alysanne's trips to the north - such as, she had an illegitimate child during one of her "breaks" from her marriage. The baby was left in the north and became part of the Mormont and/or Stark bloodlines. And maybe she left a dragon's egg for that child in the Queen's Tower.

I think there will be an ice dragon in Sansa's future.

I also think that Penny has a couple of dragon's eggs.

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I like this as well.  Gives Jon kind of a Cuckoo theme, an egg laid in another's nest. Raised in a family believing Ned is his father where, by popular theory, in fact he is not.  Also with a mother who resents him, believing she has been cuckolded when in fact this is also not the case.

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Oh boy.

The theories just grow all the more fanciful.

There is only one chance for a dragon to be forthcoming from the North. And that is if the Cannibal flew off from Dragonstone at the end of the Dance of the Dragons, and nested in a volcano somewhere in the mountains of Skagos, where it has been hibernating ever since, waiting for Jon to wake it from Skagos (Stone, in the Old Tongue).

Other than that, there is zero chance of more dagons appearing in the space of time available in the books. Especially not hatchlings, considering that even Daenerys's dragons will be way too small for a Balerion type role by the time she arrives in Westeros. Despite Martin delaying her arrival for as long as possible.

If we are to see another dragon in this series, it will have to be a fullgrown one that was asleep or in some kind of magical stasis until now. And for that, Cannibal is the only option with at least a hint of a back story to support his arrival, I'm afraid. And if so, Davos and Rickon's plot in Skagos will largely have the purpose of revealing and leading us to it.

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4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Oh boy.

The theories just grow all the more fanciful.

There is only one chance for a dragon to be forthcoming from the North. And that is if the Cannibal flew off from Dragonstone at the end of the Dance of the Dragons, and nested in a volcano somewhere in the mountains of Skagos, where it has been hibernating ever since, waiting for Jon to wake it from Skagos (Stone, in the Old Tongue).

Other than that, there is zero chance of more dagons appearing in the space of time available in the books. Especially not hatchlings, considering that even Daenerys's dragons will be way too small for a Balerion type role by the time she arrives in Westeros. Despite Martin delaying her arrival for as long as possible.

If we are to see another dragon in this series, it will have to be a fullgrown one that was asleep or in some kind of magical stasis until now. And for that, Cannibal is the only option with at least a hint of a back story to support his arrival, I'm afraid. And if so, Davos and Rickon's plot in Skagos will largely have the purpose of revealing and leading us to it.

I'm thinking you didn't read the OP since it suggested that the only new "dragon" we'll see is Jon, and that Sam's speculation about the possibility of Silverwing laying an egg is nothing more than a hint that we should expect Jon the Ice Dragon to "hatch" at the Wall. 

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  • 3 months later...
On May 11, 2016 at 5:21 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Oh boy.

The theories just grow all the more fanciful.

There is only one chance for a dragon to be forthcoming from the North. And that is if the Cannibal flew off from Dragonstone at the end of the Dance of the Dragons, and nested in a volcano somewhere in the mountains of Skagos, where it has been hibernating ever since, waiting for Jon to wake it from Skagos (Stone, in the Old Tongue).

Other than that, there is zero chance of more dagons appearing in the space of time available in the books. Especially not hatchlings, considering that even Daenerys's dragons will be way too small for a Balerion type role by the time she arrives in Westeros. Despite Martin delaying her arrival for as long as possible.

If we are to see another dragon in this series, it will have to be a fullgrown one that was asleep or in some kind of magical stasis until now. And for that, Cannibal is the only option with at least a hint of a back story to support his arrival, I'm afraid. And if so, Davos and Rickon's plot in Skagos will largely have the purpose of revealing and leading us to it.

Sheepstealer was also still alive and at large with Nettles, after the Dance. But, i believe the hints point to her being somewhere in the Mountains of the Moon, and becoming involved with one of the mountain clans there (the Burned Men, i think?)

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On 8/31/2016 at 5:40 PM, Arya_Stupid! said:

Sheepstealer was also still alive and at large with Nettles, after the Dance. But, i believe the hints point to her being somewhere in the Mountains of the Moon, and becoming involved with one of the mountain clans there (the Burned Men, i think?)

So there's that little box about the Mountain Clans in the Vale, TWOIAF that says the Burned Men were spun off from the Painted Dogs when they were enthralled by a fire a witch with a dragon. I read Alys into this when I first read it but the more likely candidate was Nettles since the fire witch commanded a dragon, but I still think Alys fits the roll of a fire witch better, so...

What if the dragon wasn't a dragon like Sheepstealer but the child of Aemond One-Eye?!? (Maybe one of those deformed dragon babies, kept alive by sorcery! :o ) And what if Timett is not only the true heir to the Vale (it is known), but also a descendant of ol' One-Eye?!?

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On 5/10/2016 at 10:43 PM, Seams said:

I like the idea of Jon as the hatching dragon egg.

I also think there is a deliberate connection between Baelor the Blessed and Bael the Bard - the similar-sounding names are a hint to the reader that we are supposed to make a connection between these legendary figures. So having Baelor mentioned by Sam in this context seems significant. (Personally, I think Jon was born in the North somewhere, probably the Winterfell crypt where Lyanna would have been hiding before she went south. I know, I know - the timeline, Robb is older, blah blah blah. But the Bael the Bard story becomes more relevant if I'm right, and this would underscore your "Jon as egg" notion.)

I do think there will be more dragons, though. I think there is going to be some kind of major development around Queen Alysanne's trips to the north - such as, she had an illegitimate child during one of her "breaks" from her marriage. The baby was left in the north and became part of the Mormont and/or Stark bloodlines. And maybe she left a dragon's egg for that child in the Queen's Tower.

I think there will be an ice dragon in Sansa's future.

I also think that Penny has a couple of dragon's eggs.

Then what is the connection to Petyr Baelish?

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4 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Then what is the connection to Petyr Baelish?

Petyr's last name is not Bael, so he's not an exact copy of that character. Instead GRRM gives us a man who is "Bael-ish". Implying he is like Bael. I'm not sure how Baelor links to Bael and Baelish, but GRRM subscribes to the notion that "history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." When you see names that are so similar, GRRM has made them similar for a reason. Baelor was a peacemaker with Dorne; in the remaining books, possibly we will learn of a secret alliance between Petyr and Doran Martell or the sand snakes. (Bael confined his sisters in a tower; Doran confined his nieces in a tower. Just thinking out loud here.)

Bael snuck into Winterfell in disguise and seduced the only daughter of the Lord, impregnating her in the crypt and guaranteeing that the two bloodlines were linked. It appears that Baelish may be playing a long game to seduce Sansa Stark, although he is using her as bait for some other traps at the moment. I think it's entirely possible that the seduction has already taken place: Catelyn mentions at one point that she and Ned had to learn to love each other. Maybe Petyr snuck into Winterfell at some point or maybe he seduced her while she was still at Riverrun and Ned was fighting in Robert's Rebellion. Petyr claims that he was Catelyn's first lover. While most of us discount the story and assume he was confusing sleeping with Catelyn with the drunken encounter he had with Lysa. But maybe there was a separate union with Catelyn that just hasn't been described yet. Wouldn't it be weird if Petyr really was Alayne Stone's father? (If he deflowered Catelyn, he might have been Robb's father, too.) It's not a smoking gun, but this excerpt makes me think that Catelyn lied about the paternity of at least one of her children:

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn't been some mistake. Perhaps the grumkins had stolen her real sister. But Mother had only laughed and said no, Arya was her daughter and Sansa's trueborn sister, blood of their blood. Sansa could not think why Mother would want to lie about it, so she supposed it had to be true. (AGoT, Sansa I)

The next time Sansa thinks about grumkins is in ASoS, when she wonders whether a grumkin might have granted her wish to have Joffrey dead. She thinks about her hairnet and then immediately wonders whether Tyrion was guilty. But we know who really arranged for Sansa to wear the hairnet with the poisoned jewel. Maybe the same grumkin who figured in the conversation about Arya being Catelyn's true-born child. You know nothing, Alayne Stone.

In the post to which I linked, I was still expecting that Penny has her dragon eggs and that she would share them with Tyrion. My later thinking about Penny's eggs is that Baelish actually bought or took them from Penny's brother, Groat. Petyr arranged through one of the Kettleblacks to have Penny and Groat perform at Joffrey's wedding feast. In fact, Penny reveals that connection in almost the same breath as she hints at "a grand gift" (= the dragon eggs, imho). I think Kettleblack learned about the eggs and told Petyr, who had been trying to find dragon eggs as part of a larger "bring down the great houses" vendetta. (Or maybe he has a more clear motive for controlling these weapons of mass destruction.) Petyr either bought them or he may have had Groat killed, disguising the murder as part of the larger slaughter of dwarfs brought on by the rich reward Cersei offered for Tyrion's head.

Because gold coins are called dragons, there is a lot of discussion of Petyr handling dragons in his position as master of coin. At the Fingers, he also has a remote piece of land with a small but loyal workforce that no one else visits but where sheep can be raised. An ideal place to raise dragons.

If Baelish and Doran are working together, maybe they are both in on the secret dragon strategy:

Prince Doran shared his secret smile with her. "From Lys. A great fleet has put in there to take on water. Volantene ships chiefly, carrying an army. No word as to who they are, or where they might be bound. There was talk of elephants."
"No dragons?"
"Elephants. Easy enough to hide a young dragon in a big cog's hold, though. Daenerys is most vulnerable at sea. If I were her, I would keep myself and my intentions hidden as long as I could, so I might take King's Landing unawares." (ADwD, The Watcher)

 

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On 5/10/2016 at 11:44 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I like Fire Eater's suggestion that Jon is the egg at the Wall as hinted at by Samwell...

My problem with it is that the "egg" in question is specifically tied to Silverwing and a literal egg. 

On 5/11/2016 at 7:21 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

And that is if the Cannibal flew off from Dragonstone at the end of the Dance of the Dragons, and nested in a volcano somewhere in the mountains of Skagos, where it has been hibernating ever since, waiting for Jon to wake it from Skagos (Stone, in the Old Tongue).

I've always kind of liked this theory. I suppose Davos could find the dragon, return with Rickon and tell Jon, who by then knows he's a Targ (somehow) and sets out to get the dragon to fight the Others (and probably Dany). Cannibal would be enormous by now, probably dwarf Drogon. 

Or Jon will ride an Ice Dragon....but I don't think either of these are likely because there's zero prelude. 

15 hours ago, Arya_Stupid! said:

Sheepstealer was also still alive and at large with Nettles, after the Dance. But, i believe the hints point to her being somewhere in the Mountains of the Moon, and becoming involved with one of the mountain clans there (the Burned Men, i think?)

I also think there's a very outside chance that Aegon VI is the real deal, will find the story of Nettles and her dragon and go try to find it. But again, super unlikely (that he finds a dragon...I really think hes a Targ). 

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What i don't understand is how anyone would think that Robb was the older of the two boys. 

It makes sense that Ned would lie about how old Jon was. Robb was conceived durning the middle of the war. After Tully, Arryn and Stark had raised their banners.

Cat mentions that Jon was already in residence before she even got to WF. Not to mention that Jon having been born in Dorne and having to make a trip twice as long as that of Robb and Cat. How did he get to WF before them if he was born after Robb?

No sorry about this and again sorry to point out this tiny little thing unless I'm mistaken I don't even think that GRRM has said that Robb was older. 

Having a bastard that was older than Robb and given Cat's attidude towards Jon it only makes sense that he would lie about how old Jon was to put Cat's mind at ease. 

Jon was born either when the Rheagar fell on the trident or around the time of the fall of KL.

If Robb was conceived around the middle or toward the beginning of the war, Jon is still older even if it's by a couple of weeks.

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18 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So there's that little box about the Mountain Clans in the Vale, TWOIAF that says the Burned Men were spun off thw painted dogs when they were entralled by a fire a witch with a dragon. I read Alys into this when I first read it but the more likely candidate was Nettles since the fire witch commanded a dragon, but I still like Alys fits the rolle of a fire witch better, so...

What if the dragon wasn't a dragon like Sheepstealer but the child of Aemond One-Eye?!? And what if Timett is not only the true heir to the Vale (it is known), but also a descendant ol' One-Eye?!?

This makes a certain amount of sense too, doesn't it? Alys was pregnant when we last saw her, and then she promptly disappears. I thought she 'saw' through water and mists though? Not fire? Or am i just misremembering that?

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7 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

I also think there's a very outside chance that Aegon VI is the real deal, will find the story of Nettles and her dragon and go try to find it. But again, super unlikely (that he finds a dragon...I really think hes a Targ). 

I would absolutely love to learn more about Sheepstealer and Nettles and whatever may have happened to them. The (F)Aegon stuff i'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on :) but, hopefully we will find out sooner rather than later.

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59 minutes ago, Arya_Stupid! said:

This makes a certain amount of sense too, doesn't it? Alys was pregnant when we last saw her, and then she promptly disappears. I thought she 'saw' through water and mists though? Not fire? Or am i just misremembering that?

Check it out...

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She saw you in a storm cloud, in a mountain pool at dusk, in the fire we lit to cook our suppers. She sees much and more, my Alys.

The Princess and the Queen

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On September 1, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Check it out...

The Princess and the Queen

Thanks Lost Melbonian! ☺️ My brain must have just got stuck on the watery stuff. Well it's definitely a good possibility then, that Alys could be the Burned Men's fire witch. I guess it depends on whether or not the 'dragon' they worshipped was metaphorical or physical. Damn George for making these things have so many possibilities, Lol.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/1/2016 at 7:11 AM, Seams said:

Wouldn't it be weird if Petyr really was Alayne Stone's father?

It would be absolutely magnificent irony, classically mythic stuff.

On 9/1/2016 at 7:11 AM, Seams said:

(If he deflowered Catelyn, he might have been Robb's father, too.) It's not a smoking gun, but this excerpt makes me think that Catelyn lied about the paternity of at least one of her children:

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn't been some mistake. Perhaps the grumkins had stolen her real sister. But Mother had only laughed and said no, Arya was her daughter and Sansa's trueborn sister, blood of their blood. Sansa could not think why Mother would want to lie about it, so she supposed it had to be true. (AGoT, Sansa I)

The next time Sansa thinks about grumkins is in ASoS, when she wonders whether a grumkin might have granted her wish to have Joffrey dead. She thinks about her hairnet and then immediately wonders whether Tyrion was guilty. But we know who really arranged for Sansa to wear the hairnet with the poisoned jewel. Maybe the same grumkin who figured in the conversation about Arya being Catelyn's true-born child. You know nothing, Alayne Stone.

This is really astute. I think the text is littered with reversals like this, and not because of RLJ.

 

On 9/1/2016 at 7:11 AM, Seams said:

In fact, Penny reveals that connection in almost the same breath as she hints at "a grand gift" (= the dragon eggs, imho).

This is such a retrospective "duh"... sigh.

 

On 9/1/2016 at 7:11 AM, Seams said:

Because gold coins are called dragons, there is a lot of discussion of Petyr handling dragons in his position as master of coin. At the Fingers, he also has a remote piece of land with a small but loyal workforce that no one else visits but where sheep can be raised. An ideal place to raise dragons.

It's a sheepstealer's paradise. Damn.

Christ I need to start another reread.

 

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13 hours ago, M_Tootles said:

Holy shit that makes so much literary sense. Are you suggesting he survives the Gods Eye/switches with Daemon?

No. I suspect Aemond died, but Alys survived him, heavy with his child. I suspect she made her way into the Mountains of the Moon, and with Aemond's son, who would be a dragon, helped to found the Burned Men. 

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