White Harbors Wrath Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 They've already said Bran isn't staying north of the wall. It's like they have a big flashing sign no one is looking at. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just a saying. You think every Lannister has always paid every debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, White Harbors Wrath said: You're going to be so disappointed. You assume that. If you read my passage I say he should kill him, so if he does, I wouldn't be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 47 minutes ago, White Harbors Wrath said: They've already said Bran isn't staying north of the wall. It's like they have a big flashing sign no one is looking at. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just a saying. You think every Lannister has always paid every debt? When did they say he wasn't staying north of the wall, did I miss this too? I heard them say he wasn't staying in the cave, that isn't the same as saying he would go south. The NK home base is in the land of always winter, which is north of where they are now. I expect Bran to head there and possibly meet up with long lost Benjen, though that last part is less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Targaryen Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, White Harbors Wrath said: 1. Karstark said "to the Starks", not Umber. 2. He's not pledging fealty now. He outright refused it. "I'm not kissing your hand", "fuck kneeling, fuck oaths". He simply is making common cause with a possible ally nearby. Allies in war are not always best friends. Why should the Boltons ally with this man/house that has no respect for him. A gift that helps Ramsays claim. Easy peasy. 3. You basically just repeated #2 again so see #2. The north remembers? Who...Sansa's maid? They know no king but Stark? Lyanna Mormont said that, not Umber...and the Mormonts are going to be siding with the Starks this season. I think you're confusing the book with the show. Okay, you're right on number one, my mistake. And for number 2, I wasn't saying that he was, that was my overall point. When I said why would we? I meant, yea he wouldn't. And that's why I'm saying he gave Ramsay Rickon, because he knows he wouldn't trust him otherwise. Number 3 is in fact different than number 2. I meant that previously, he didn't swear fealty to Roose and he's still not swearing fealty to Ramsay. As for the rest, I'm being hopeful that that mantra remains true with the Umbers. No guarantee of course. D&D can do what they want, as they've shown in the past. A lot of people are saying the Manderlys are going to turn, but I think it's more likely (using the show for evidence) for D&D to give that role to the Umbers seeing how they played them up this episode and we've known about them since Season 1. Manderlys haven't been mentioned til now, and we still haven't seen them. So who would care if they turned? It's almost too obvious. But then again, D&D don't always subscribe to logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, dbunting said: You assume that. If you read my passage I say he should kill him, so if he does, I wouldn't be disappointed. There's a lot of spoiler for this season. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, dbunting said: When did they say he wasn't staying north of the wall, did I miss this too? I heard them say he wasn't staying in the cave, that isn't the same as saying he would go south. The NK home base is in the land of always winter, which is north of where they are now. I expect Bran to head there and possibly meet up with long lost Benjen, though that last part is less likely. They did say he wasn't going to stay in the cave forever...there were also pictures of Bran lightly dressed slumped over a horse for promo early this year. Since we know he can walk in his visions, there's not much point to him being on a horse unless he's going somewhere...and he wasn't in blizzard gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, Petyr Targaryen said: Okay, you're right on number one, my mistake. And for number 2, I wasn't saying that he was, that was my overall point. When I said why would we? I meant, yea he wouldn't. And that's why I'm saying he gave Ramsay Rickon, because he knows he wouldn't trust him otherwise. Number 3 is in fact different than number 2. I meant that previously, he didn't swear fealty to Roose and he's still not swearing fealty to Ramsay. As for the rest, I'm being hopeful that that mantra remains true with the Umbers. No guarantee of course. D&D can do what they want, as they've shown in the past. A lot of people are saying the Manderlys are going to turn, but I think it's more likely (using the show for evidence) for D&D to give that role to the Umbers seeing how they played them up this episode and we've known about them since Season 1. Manderlys haven't been mentioned til now, and we still haven't seen them. So who would care if they turned? It's almost too obvious. But then again, D&D don't always subscribe to logic. There was a Manderly at the Red Wedding in the show. Though how many times they have been actually mentioned who knows...like twice this season, maybe once prior? We've only got a brief snippet of Lyanna Mormont via her raven mention at CB, yet she appears to be a prominent Stark ally this season. D&D can do anything at any moment. They destroyed Dorne in 3 minutes, framed Umber betrayal in 3 minutes...Manderly's can easily still pop in...especially since in the casting call, Umber and the lord assumed to be a Manderly type, were two totally different roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa16 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 55 minutes ago, Petyr Targaryen said: Okay, you're right on number one, my mistake. And for number 2, I wasn't saying that he was, that was my overall point. When I said why would we? I meant, yea he wouldn't. And that's why I'm saying he gave Ramsay Rickon, because he knows he wouldn't trust him otherwise. Number 3 is in fact different than number 2. I meant that previously, he didn't swear fealty to Roose and he's still not swearing fealty to Ramsay. As for the rest, I'm being hopeful that that mantra remains true with the Umbers. No guarantee of course. D&D can do what they want, as they've shown in the past. A lot of people are saying the Manderlys are going to turn, but I think it's more likely (using the show for evidence) for D&D to give that role to the Umbers seeing how they played them up this episode and we've known about them since Season 1. Manderlys haven't been mentioned til now, and we still haven't seen them. So who would care if they turned? It's almost too obvious. But then again, D&D don't always subscribe to logic. Manderlys will definitely be siding with the Starks. Filming spoilers and the trailers show their banners on the opposing side to the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, White Harbors Wrath said: They did say he wasn't going to stay in the cave forever...there were also pictures of Bran lightly dressed slumped over a horse for promo early this year. Since we know he can walk in his visions, there's not much point to him being on a horse unless he's going somewhere...and he wasn't in blizzard gear. Ok, so you agree that you are making assumptions and stating them as facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Vanessa16 said: Manderlys will definitely be siding with the Starks. Filming spoilers and the trailers show their banners on the opposing side to the Boltons. I'd like to see those pictures. Only banners anyones seen on the Stark side were Mormonts and some orange one that's supposedly Hornwoods (definitely no Merman on it)...maybe that house plays the Manderly role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, dbunting said: Ok, so you agree that you are making assumptions and stating them as facts? I can't make anything a fact...just an opinion based on actual evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cruise Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 On 5/11/2016 at 1:33 AM, Battle Kitten said: Whenever a direwolf dies, a Stark goes. So, I bet he dies this season but not until later. There's no reason to assume this. Personally I don't think Rickon is dying at all. Arya and Sansa maybe... Jon, well he already died, and might have a few more deaths in him before the end. Rickon will grow into one of the greatest Stark warriors. He's already grown a lot, and there are still a few years of growing left for him before the battle for the Dawn. The few and brief descriptions we get of Rickons character make me think he will be a lot like his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna. Ramsy cannot afford to lose another Stark. Rickon is the best chance he has to keep the North together. The north has already been fractured and there currently is no Warden of the North that is recognized throughout the kingdom. What would truely be horrifying is if Ramsy tries to make another 'Reek' out of Rickon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I think they are flipping Rickons role a little bit in the show (compared to the books). In the books, as we all know, it's the Manderlys who send Davos to go retrieve Rickon from Skagos, with the intent of using Rickon to rally the North against the Boltons. IMO, Rickon *will* be retrieved and will be on the Manderly side at the start of the battle for Winterfell. The Books, however, seemed to have (IMO) blended the Manderlys plotline with the Umbers. This time, its the Umbers who retrieve Rickon and give him to Ramsey...who in turn wants to rally the North and gain allies (as Roose seemed to be hinting at in the show, by telling Ramsey he needed to rally the North, rather then just kill everyone). And of course, in the books, it's Stannis leading the armies (probably with Rickon in tow), while in the show it will be Jon (probably with Sansa in tow). Makes sense since Jon will probably remain dead much longer in the books and very well miss the entire Battle for Winterfell (or at least be brought back during). So the show kills Stannis, brings Jon back sooner, and gives Jon Stannis's book story arc. All the story arcs are twisted into other people and contorted for television, but the end result will remain the same...Jon will be brought back to life. Stannis will be killed, Ramsey will be betrayed, and Rickon is just a pawn in the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa16 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, White Harbors Wrath said: I'd like to see those pictures. Only banners anyones seen on the Stark side were Mormonts and some orange one that's supposedly Hornwoods (definitely no Merman on it)...maybe that house plays the Manderly role. I know set leaks also mentioned that happening. Also, Lord Manderly was cast and in the casting call it said he would 'give a speech', possibly the north remembers speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD2020 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 10 hours ago, 420faceless said: I agree. He's a Stark and he won't just be killed off like a nobody. All the Starks have a part to play in coming to their full power. There'd not really even be a point for him being in the books or show just to be killed by someone who really isn't as smart as he thinks he is like Ramsey. It's also constantly said Ramsey doesn't have the patience for the long game and acts impulsively, which is basically what he's doing with torturing others, going straight to battle and killing off his own family, acting like a base animal. He's not any kind of mastermind, just a cruel sadist who likes fucking with victim's heads. However, he doesn't have the tactics for larger game politics. I believe that Rickon has been offered to Ramsey as a hostage so the rest of the northerners hear he's there as hostage in order to make the north rise up against Ramsey. Ramsey is not in control here in any way. I agree with all of this. I think Ramsey won't send any 'pink letter' and trying to force Jon from making a move to go south. In fact, I believe it will amount to Ramsey being so butthurt over Sansa that he will be the one to rally the Umbars and houses to take on Jon Snow in the north and this will be his downfall. Not only underestimating Jon Snow and the wildings/nightwatch but not seeing the treachery at root when Littlefinger comes back from Kings Landing and asking the Vale to join in the fight against the Boltons. Whatever it is, its going to be extremely satisfying watching justice clean cut off some traitor heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doghouse Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 hours ago, SevasTra82 said: I think they are flipping Rickons role a little bit in the show (compared to the books). In the books, as we all know, it's the Manderlys who send Davos to go retrieve Rickon from Skagos, with the intent of using Rickon to rally the North against the Boltons. IMO, Rickon *will* be retrieved and will be on the Manderly side at the start of the battle for Winterfell. The Books, however, seemed to have (IMO) blended the Manderlys plotline with the Umbers. This time, its the Umbers who retrieve Rickon and give him to Ramsey...who in turn wants to rally the North and gain allies (as Roose seemed to be hinting at in the show, by telling Ramsey he needed to rally the North, rather then just kill everyone). And of course, in the books, it's Stannis leading the armies (probably with Rickon in tow), while in the show it will be Jon (probably with Sansa in tow). Makes sense since Jon will probably remain dead much longer in the books and very well miss the entire Battle for Winterfell (or at least be brought back during). So the show kills Stannis, brings Jon back sooner, and gives Jon Stannis's book story arc. All the story arcs are twisted into other people and contorted for television, but the end result will remain the same...Jon will be brought back to life. Stannis will be killed, Ramsey will be betrayed, and Rickon is just a pawn in the entire game. This is the best summary of what has happened that I have read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Umber must be planning something . I guess Sansa and Brienne will end up at Last Hearth next episode. My theory is that Osha will start killing Ramsays men at Winterfell , including Karstark. Rickon is just a part of Umbers game to overthrow Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmasca7 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Rickon will be toast in Ep. 9. Bolton - Umber - Karkstark - Manderly vs Jon/Wildlings - Mormont - Cerwyn - Hornwood - Sansa/Littlefinger/Vale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, jmasca7 said: Rickon will be toast in Ep. 9. Bolton - Umber - Karkstark - Manderly vs Jon/Wildlings - Mormont - Cerwyn - Hornwood - Sansa/Littlefinger/Vale That should be an easy victory for the Boltons then. The strongest houses in the North against some undisciplined wildlings and a few other weaker houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hound 25 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 50 minutes ago, of man and wolf said: That should be an easy victory for the Boltons then. The strongest houses in the North against some undisciplined wildlings and a few other weaker houses. Not if you include The Vale. They still have considerable forces with them. And Jon also has Wun Wun who's basically an army himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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