[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[LadySoftheart]

2 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

You make a really important point, I'd like to add that we're actually getting visuals that reinforce this point of view with the near deserted streets of Braavos and Meereen this season. Also where we do occasionally see the commoners they are reduced to extreme caricatures such as the screaming lunatics who make up the Faith Militant, and the inhuman depiction of the Children of the Harpy as gold-masked psychopaths who attack in silence with no regard for their own lives.

I'm with you on the Iron Throne not existing at the end of this (both as an object and an institution), though I expect fragmentation and/or anarchy to follow.

To nitpick your nitpick though, Davos is another POV not of noble birth .

Of course! How could I forget Davos? Though he mostly interacts with Stannis and other noblemen, who despise him for his non-noble birth. Davos for President of Westeros.

I think you are right there will be fragmentation - the Seven Kingdoms may in fact go back to being Seven Kingdoms (or however many are left after the terrible Winter!) as we've already seen the process begin with the North, with the Iron Islands, and with Dorne. But I reeeeeally think all the speculation about who will sit the Iron Throne (King Jon Snow or Queen Daenerys) just assumes that the civil war/war with the Others will leave the political system completely intact. And I think that's very unrealistic and would actually be a weirdly banal ending to the series. There are clearly other systems of governance in Essos that are not monarchies - oligarchy in Volantis, yes? And Braavos is so analogous to Venice that I have always assumed they have the equivalent of a council of ten with the First Sealord as primus inter pares. (I have not read World of Ice & Fire so maybe there is more in there!) The point is, there are models for non-hereditary monarchy - even the Kingsmoot of the Iron Islands is a more democratic way of choosing your leader (except you might end up with Euron Crowseye!)

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

 But it works!  Even on this forum book readers were like woohoo TOJ.  All it took was a decently choreographed fight and OMG lookit, he got 2 swords.  Unfuckingbelievable.

I seriously feel like the only person who watched that and saw Ned Stark's character assassination, even not counting the bad acting and casting.

That's just mean, you know I HATED it, and many fellow ranters did too!

[LadySoftheart]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

That's just mean, you know I HATED it, and many fellow ranters did too!

Thirded!  The ghost of Sean Bean's Ned Stark is rattling his bones at this horrifying person who brags about bringing down Arthur Dayne  (I'm actually quite surprised that they bothered with any other KG or Ned's companions - surely they just wanted to create an analogous scene to Jaime's fight with Ned in the first season. They even blondified Ned!)

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

And, can someone explain what was the point of the Tommen scene?

To remind us, as if we needed reminding, that teenage Tommen might as well be outlawing beets for all the ability he has.

To remind us of Saint Carol and her mother love?

To remind us that grandpa sparrow loves mums and hates whores or some shit?

And where is fucking Marg Boleyn at? LMAO.  Everyone in KL except QOT has seemingly forgotten about her, even her stupid as fuck husband.  Good lord.

I have noticed a lot of repetitive dialogue already this season where characters are literally repeating sentences that were said last season. Starting with Dorne and the discussion between Doran and Ellaria. And Dany with the Duderaki's. And Tommen, and Balon had some recycling in there. The quality and creativity in writing has taken a nose dive.

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

Thirded!  The ghost of Sean Bean's Ned Stark is rattling his bones at this horrifying person who brags about bringing down Arthur Dayne  (I'm actually quite surprised that they bothered with any other KG or Ned's companions - surely they just wanted to create an analogous scene to Jaime's fight with Ned in the first season. They even blondified Ned!)

Sean Bean should give an interview and say yo, where did you get that chinless fool to play me?  Has no one seen photos of me when I was young?  Here!  There is my chiseled chin, right there in the photo. 

[LadySoftheart]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have noticed a lot of repetitive dialogue already this season where characters are literally repeating sentences that were said last season. Strting with Dorne and the discussion between Doran and Ellaria. And Dany with the Duderaki's. And Tommen, and Balon had some recycling in there. The quality and creativity in writing has taken a nose dive.

Not just dialogue: even whole scenes are repeats (Jaime moving the chair in the Small Council is the same as Tyrion doing it in season 3; Brienne swearing oaths to Sansa, same as her swearing oaths to Catelyn) etc. If I were generous, I'd say they were trying to draw visual parallels, but actually repeating the exact dialogue & scene direction does seem lazy and anyway, I thought they didn't like themes. It's like they're doing a homage to themselves, which they don't really deserve

 

[Cas Stark]

Just now, LadySoftheart said:

Not just dialogue: even whole scenes are repeats (Jaime moving the chair in the Small Council is the same as Tyrion doing it in season 3; Brienne swearing oaths to Sansa, same as her swearing oaths to Catelyn) etc. If I were generous, I'd say they were trying to draw visual parallels, but actually repeating the exact dialogue & scene direction does seem lazy and anyway, I thought they didn't like themes. It's like they're doing a homage to themselves, which they don't really deserve

 

I'll give them the Sansa/Cat is a parallel.

The small council scene seems more like, they were out of ideas and remembered how much people raved about the earlier small council scene, so they did it again, only this time, it fell flat.

[LadySoftheart]

Just now, Cas Stark said:

Sean Bean should give an interview and say yo, where did you get that chinless fool to play me?  Has no one seen photos of me when I was young?  Here!  There is my chiseled chin, right there in the photo. 

I know!! Sean Bean was HOT STUFF when he was young, and he certainly didn't look like a blurred copy of Neil Patrick Harris! 

Young Sean Bean!

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, LadySoftheart said:

Not just dialogue: even whole scenes are repeats (Jaime moving the chair in the Small Council is the same as Tyrion doing it in season 3; Brienne swearing oaths to Sansa, same as her swearing oaths to Catelyn) etc. If I were generous, I'd say they were trying to draw visual parallels, but actually repeating the exact dialogue & scene direction does seem lazy and anyway, I thought they didn't like themes. It's like they're doing a homage to themselves, which they don't really deserve

 

Or maybe all of their resistance to themes has them so anti-themed out that they think anti-themes are themes so they try to do the reverse and instead actually do a theme?

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have noticed a lot of repetitive dialogue already this season where characters are literally repeating sentences that were said last season. Starting with Dorne and the discussion between Doran and Ellaria. And Dany with the Duderaki's. And Tommen, and Balon had some recycling in there. The quality and creativity in writing has taken a nose dive.

It's a formula. It worked so well for so long, why change it?

 

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Sean Bean should give an interview and say yo, where did you get that chinless fool to play me?  Has no one seen photos of me when I was young?  Here!  There is my chiseled chin, right there in the photo. 

The main problem is still the acting and dialogue, though. I mean, sure, that guy was ALL wrong, physically, but if he was a good actor and the dialogue was good as well, it wouldn't matter so much. The problem is that NOTHING in the scene worked, so it was one bad thing on top of the other on top of the other.

[LadySoftheart]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

It's a formula. It worked so well for so long, why change it?

 

The main problem is still the acting and dialogue, though. I mean, sure, that guy was ALL wrong, physically, but if he was a good actor and the dialogue was good as well, it wouldn't matter so much. The problem is that NOTHING in the scene worked, so it was one bad thing on top of the other on top of the other.

Sean Bean could've sold that scene! (Probably!) Are you hyped for when we get Ned & Lyanna now? This is going to be AMAZING, I'm sure, with these two actors :D)

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

5 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

Of course! How could I forget Davos? Though he mostly interacts with Stannis and other noblemen, who despise him for his non-noble birth. Davos for President of Westeros.

I think you are right there will be fragmentation - the Seven Kingdoms may in fact go back to being Seven Kingdoms (or however many are left after the terrible Winter!) as we've already seen the process begin with the North, with the Iron Islands, and with Dorne. But I reeeeeally think all the speculation about who will sit the Iron Throne (King Jon Snow or Queen Daenerys) just assumes that the civil war/war with the Others will leave the political system completely intact. And I think that's very unrealistic and would actually be a weirdly banal ending to the series. There are clearly other systems of governance in Essos that are not monarchies - oligarchy in Volantis, yes? And Braavos is so analogous to Venice that I have always assumed they have the equivalent of a council of ten with the First Sealord as primus inter pares. (I have not read World of Ice & Fire so maybe there is more in there!) The point is, there are models for non-hereditary monarchy - even the Kingsmoot of the Iron Islands is a more democratic way of choosing your leader (except you might end up with Euron Crowseye!)

I recommend the World book, there's overlap with stuff we already know and it's dry but there's some nice further world building and it helped me finally get the Targaryen dynasty down, though there are a couple of references that I could've done without (I'm looking at you Elmo & Kermit Tully!).

I find the fandom fixation on who will sit the "Game of Thrones" really meta, given that it's the same phenomena that's left the realm extremely vulnerable to an actual apocalypse within the story! I kind of think George was making a point there 

I found the Kingsmoot really appropriate for the Iron Islands, given that pirate ships in the real world were often run quite democratically.

To keep on topic, the world book provided more stuff for the writers to pull from and made the timeline more explicit and easily referenced, but instead we're still getting 1000 year old Not!Bloodraven.

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It's a formula. It worked so well for so long, why change it?

 

The main problem is still the acting and dialogue, though. I mean, sure, that guy was ALL wrong, physically, but if he was a good actor and the dialogue was good as well, it wouldn't matter so much. The problem is that NOTHING in the scene worked, so it was one bad thing on top of the other on top of the other.

Yes. Everything bad.

So the only thing to be hoped for in TOJ Part II, is that it's bad enough to reach campy levels of bad.

BTW, did Siddig do any interviews after they killed him?  I don't remember seeing any which I thought was strange, everyone does post GOT media.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

As I said in a different thread wouldn't it be a more logical story be Umber's action happening last year? Like after Mace burns the whole "9/10 wildlings bend the knee" like the books but in the shows version they go with Stannis to attack WF so SJ Umber fearing a Southern king with a Wildling army hands over Rickon to the Botlons as a hostage/rally the North to the Boltons plan which replaced Jenye wedding. So Sansa and LF stay in the Vale, and its saving Rickon that's Theon's Jenye redemption? So in episode 9 or 10 we have a Stannis/Wildling vs Bolton/Umber/Karstark showdown then Jon hearing Ramsay has Rickon is his PL equivalent leading for FTW

[The_half_fan]

30 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

 But it works!  Even on this forum book readers were like woohoo TOJ.  All it took was a decently choreographed fight and OMG lookit, he got 2 swords.  Unfuckingbelievable.

I seriously feel like the only person who watched that and saw Ned Stark's character assassination, even not counting the bad acting and casting.

All forum book readers who went woohoo TOJ are machine learning test bots from Microsoft on loan to HBO.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

As I said in a different thread wouldn't it be a more logical story be Umber's action happening last year? Like after Mace burns the whole "9/10 wildlings bend the knee" like the books but in the shows version they go with Stannis to attack WF so SJ Umber fearing a Southern king with a Wildling army hands over Rickon to the Botlons as a hostage/rally the North to the Boltons plan which replaced Jenye wedding. So Sansa and LF stay in the Vale, and its saving Rickon that's Theon's Jenye redemption? So in episode 9 or 10 we have a Stannis/Wildling vs Bolton/Umber/Karstark showdown then Jon hearing Ramsay has Rickon is his PL equivalent leading for FTW

I don't think that really works either.  No one who is a sane person who had Rickon Stark would give him to some other House's control unless it was for a wagon of diamonds and an army.  Not a promise to do something.

They could have seeded the Northern action by ONE single scene at Sansa's wedding where these new doofus Northern lords would have been introduced and have then talking about whatever...wildlings, jon snow, no starks, gotta make peace with the boltons, etc. 

[WinterPool Stark]

26 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

And, can someone explain what was the point of the Tommen scene?

To remind us, as if we needed reminding, that teenage Tommen might as well be outlawing beets for all the ability he has.

To remind us of Saint Carol and her mother love?

To remind us that grandpa sparrow loves mums and hates whores or some shit?

And where is fucking Marg Boleyn at? LMAO.  Everyone in KL except QOT has seemingly forgotten about her, even her stupid as fuck husband.  Good lord.

I think this is to show the HS digging his claws in to Tommen and setting Tommen up to go against Cersei. So Tommen loves his 'mother' but doesn't like the 'bad' in her. The HS is showing TomTom that he doesn't have anything against Cersei but actually wants to cure/purify her. If and when Marg 'sides' with the faith I think Tommy will be 'born again' too. 

We had Tommen make a comment about how Cersei probably killed Trystane so we know what he thinks she's capable of. 

 

[kissdbyfire]

22 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

Sean Bean could've sold that scene! (Probably!) Are you hyped for when we get Ned & Lyanna now? This is going to be AMAZING, I'm sure, with these two actors :D)

 

I'm ready to gouge my eyes out with something blunt and rusty, more like.

[kissdbyfire]

21 minutes ago, WinterPool Stark said:

I think this is to show the HS digging his claws in to Tommen and setting Tommen up to go against Cersei. So Tommen loves his 'mother' but doesn't like the 'bad' in her. The HS is showing TomTom that he doesn't have anything against Cersei but actually wants to cure/purify her. If and when Marg 'sides' with the faith I think Tommy will be 'born again' too. 

We had Tommen make a comment about how Cersei probably killed Trystane so we know what he thinks she's capable of. 

 

But then he asked Carol to help him be strong, that he wants to be strong like she taught him, blah blah blah. Inconsistent, lazy writing as usual.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

But then he asked Carol to help him be strong, that he wants to be strong like she taught him, blah blah blah. Inconsistent, lazy writing as usual.

Show Tommen has caught Sansa's multiple personality disorder from last year, it's apparently a virus of some kind, not an organic mental condition.