Arya & the waif

[linglingey]

New enough here so hope I'm posting in the correct place and this topic hasn't already been covered, but....

Why did the waif keep hitting Arya with the stick when she was saying her brothers names? 

Doesn't she only hit her when she tells a lie? 

How is that a lie? Was it a clue to something more? 

 

I can't see how Arya isn't their sister though, so I'm totally confused by this! 

Any ideas??

[Ludo Kressh]

It was a training montage, the showrunners edited it that way for a dramatic effect. And the Waif was hitting her with a staff that they use for her assassin training, not the stick they use when they play the game of faces.

[Bugs]

She lied by saying she has 4 brothers instead of 3 brothers and an half brother. Or did I miss something in that scene?

[bb1180]

3 minutes ago, Bugs said:

She lied by saying she has 4 brothers instead of 3 brothers and an half brother. Or did I miss something in that scene?

That was my interpretation.  

[Philpenn]

Then R+L=J isn't true on the show.  If it were, 3 brothers and a half brother would have earned her a smack too.

[Tyrion's Littlefinger]

I had read a theory, although now I can't recall which site, that when Arya says her brothers names the Waif strikes her in the same places that her brothers were struck. When she says Robb she is hit in the stomach.  When she says Bran she is hit in the back.  When she says Rickon she is hit in the leg.  I believe that the theorist was trying to say that this was a foreshadowing of how/where Rickon would be hurt.

I'm not sure if I'm buying into it, but figured it was something to throw out there to all you lovely people to see what you think. 

[bb1180]

12 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Then R+L=J isn't true on the show.  If it were, 3 brothers and a half brother would have earned her a smack too.

No,  because the Waif doesn't have any special knowledge of Jon's heritage, at least that we know of.  She only smacks Arya when she perceives that Arya is lying.  Since Arya truly believes that Jon is her half-brother,  that's the truth,  as far as the Waif can detect.   

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Waif?  Who or what is the Waif?  Involved in Arya's storyline?  Nah, I haven't seen anyone in her story acting the least bit.........Waifish? 

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Waif?  Who or what is the Waif?  Involved in Arya's storyline?  Nah, I haven't seen anyone in her story acting the least bit.........Waifish? 

I'm going to start calling her Bobcut, like that reviewer does, LOL.  It's a shame that all Bobcut has done is beat up Arya since she can act and could have done something more than beat Arya with a stick and eye roll her. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm going to start calling her Bobcut, like that reviewer does, LOL.  It's a shame that all Bobcut has done is beat up Arya since she can act and could have done something more than beat Arya with a stick and eye roll her. 

That's a damn shame, I'd like to see some acting, as well as The Waif herself.  I have to admit, I'm not much up on all the names this season.  I wish they'd have put all Arya's scenes into one episode, so far, cause......I'm tired of the five minute or less beat down every week.  It's as boring as the weekly eunuch and dick jokes.  

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

That's a damn shame, I'd like to see some acting, as well as The Waif herself.  I have to admit, I'm not much up on all the names this season.  I wish they'd have put all Arya's scenes into one episode, so far, cause......I'm tired of the five minute or less beat down every week.  It's as boring as the weekly eunuch and dick jokes.  

No doubt, Bobcut, Maise and Tom could have done some very interesting stuff together, if someone else were writing the show.  

I hope now we get a dick/pussy joke in every episode.  It was hilarious, OT, reading AG interview, that Dan and Dave are so particular about each word, so we know that they were adamant that 'play with her ass' 'your gash' 'bad pussy' and 'no dick joke #294" were things they put in there for "reasons".

[Philpenn]

1 hour ago, bb1180 said:

No,  because the Waif doesn't have any special knowledge of Jon's heritage, at least that we know of.  She only smacks Arya when she perceives that Arya is lying.  Since Arya truly believes that Jon is her half-brother,  that's the truth,  as far as the Waif can detect.   

 

Should have added a wacky emoticon or something.

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, bb1180 said:

No,  because the Waif doesn't have any special knowledge of Jon's heritage, at least that we know of.  She only smacks Arya when she perceives that Arya is lying.  Since Arya truly believes that Jon is her half-brother,  that's the truth,  as far as the Waif can detect.   

Correct, the waif is basically using lie detection skills. She detects Arya lies when she includes Jon as her brother instead of half brother. Which in itself is strange, if Arya considers him her brother, then she shouldn't be giving a tell that she is lying.

[Philpenn]

Again, wacky emoticon.

[Ser Hyle]

8 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Correct, the waif is basically using lie detection skills. She detects Arya lies when she includes Jon as her brother instead of half brother. Which in itself is strange, if Arya considers him her brother, then she shouldn't be giving a tell that she is lying.

She considers him her "brother" but she knows in truth (as far as she's aware) that he's her "half brother" hence the lie and the wack with the stick.

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Correct, the waif is basically using lie detection skills. She detects Arya lies when she includes Jon as her brother instead of half brother. Which in itself is strange, if Arya considers him her brother, then she shouldn't be giving a tell that she is lying.

But, what's the point of this?  

There is no sense that she is being taught to lie well.  She only gets hit with a stick when she lies.  There has not been an instance when we, the viewer, know she lied, but Bobcut doesn't detect it. So, I'm not sure what a viewer would think is going on, "training" but for what?  What is she learning?  It's neither shown nor told in the show.

[Lord Lannister]

A man finds a girl's scenes extremely repetitive this season.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

But, what's the point of this?  

There is no sense that she is being taught to lie well.  She only gets hit with a stick when she lies.  There has not been an instance when we, the viewer, know she lied, but Bobcut doesn't detect it. So, I'm not sure what a viewer would think is going on, "training" but for what?  What is she learning?  It's neither shown nor told in the show.

The problem is you are expecting all the things from the book to appear in the show. You keep pointing out things that aren't there and not judging based on what is there. That makes no sense since this is an adaptation not a direct word for word show. If you had not read the books you wouldn't care less about if Arya is being taught to detect lies, you would see the scene for what they are trying to show you. That the waif and Jaqen can tell when Arya is lying so when she truly believes she is no one, it is the truth and the training can move forward.

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

 

Um, no.  My critique has nothing at all to do with the books.  And I certainly do not expect "all things" from the books to be in the show.

Maybe you don't understand what I said.  I am judging the show in WHAT IS THERE, and said that if you ONLY WATCH THE SHOW it is not clear what she is being trained for.  She gets hit with sticks when she lies.  The end.

What the SHOW SHOWS is unclear.  What she is being trained for is unclear.  What the goal is, unclear.

What would her truly believing herself to be no one have to do with anything else?  Like I said, there is nothing in the show to indicate that she's supposed to be learning to lie, there is nothing in the show to explain why she is beating and what Bobcut and Bathrobe Tom hope to accomplish.  There is also like no reason why being beaten when you lie turns you into no one.

So, I'm sorry but it appears that you are the one who is putting things into the show that aren't there, not me.  I see what is put in the segment and I evaluate it based on what is in the show.  And what is in the show it is a mystery what the beatings are for, other than "yo training and shit" LOL.

She's never going to believe she is no one, so, your premise is false to start with.  But even if that were true, this as the objective is not shown in the show, or has been said or implied.  

[dbunting]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Um, no.  My critique has nothing at all to do with the books.  And I certainly do not expect "all things" from the books to be in the show.

Maybe you don't understand what I said.  I am judging the show in WHAT IS THERE, and said that if you ONLY WATCH THE SHOW it is not clear what she is being trained for.  She gets hit with sticks when she lies.  The end.

No, she is hit until she stops lying. When asked who she is and she says no one and she doesn't get hit, that means she believes it, and that is the point of the training. To me and some friends who watch but haven't read the books, it was pretty clear.

 

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What would her truly believing herself to be no one have to do with anything else?  Like I said, there is nothing in the show to indicate that she's supposed to be learning to lie, there is nothing in the show to explain why she is beating and what Bobcut and Bathrobe Tom hope to accomplish.  There is also like no reason why being beaten when you lie turns you into no one.

These comments and your attitude inferred from them makes it clear that you have more issues than the training.

 

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She's never going to believe she is no one, so, your premise is false to start with.  But even if that were true, this as the objective is not shown in the show, or has been said or implied.  

Well, if she was getting beaten because she lied, then it must mean she was telling the truth when she said she was no one. Also, when drinking the water, she was told very clearly that if she was no one then she had nothing to fear from it, if she was someone she would die, she drank, she did not die, so she must be no one.

 

Can she later change her mind, obviously.