The Heresy Project: Tywin + Lyanna = Dead Girl

[Dorian Martell]

3 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

At least some of the people you've quoted had something constructive to add. You've gone to a lot of work just to tell me you think this is a joke. You've made your point, now move along.

I didn't need to add anything. the theory was shot full of holes chicago gangster style on the first page.
Pro Tip: you don't get to tell people to move along in a public space  

[Nevets]

46 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Sorry to be confusing you! Three things you said made me laugh, because they are parts that I left out due to length, and I was trying to condense the theory to be centered on Tywin, but this is a much more expansive theory.

First the curiouser and curiouser...if you only knew how ironic this is you'd laugh too. The over arcing theory that I summarized for Nanother involves thirty chapters spread out over AFFC and ADWD. My opening essay that details the project uses Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass (thus the chuckle) as a metaphor to help explain my theory about the warding on the Wall being removed and the hinge opened, because the evidence is there to support this. It's hard to demonstrate for others what I'm talking about without walking through at least two or three of the chapters.

Kevan was involved as I mentioned above. I perhaps didn't focus on him enough if you are thinking this is coming out of nowhere. Kevan organized raiding parties that took nobles as hostages. This is a known fact. He was Tywin's right hand man and likely knew more than anyone save Tywin himself. Kevan is also very fond of his niece and naturally thought she was the right match for Rhaegar, so any thoughts about that are actually justification for what they did...like, Aerys should have accepted the match. 

As for the "damning" line about Rhaegar not looking at Lyanna...I hesitate to give you my answer, because I think I know how'd react anyways, but the opening of the hinge has caused false memories. Layering a new reality over the old one, plus there's the very real scientific fact about memories: they cannot be trusted:

Memory retrieval is even more mysterious than storage. When I ask if you know Alex Ritchie, the answer is immediately obvious to you, and there is no good theory to explain how memory retrieval can happen so quickly. Moreover, the act of retrieval can destabilize the memory. When you recall a past event, the memory becomes temporarily susceptible to erasure. Some intriguing recent experiments show it is possible to chemically block memories from reforming during that window, suggesting new ethical questions that require careful consideration.

10 Unsolved Mysteries of the Brain

False memories are common

"That is, witnesses who discuss an event with a co-witness are very likely to incorporate misinformation presented by the co-witness into their own memory for the event," she said.

"Once their memory has been contaminated in this way, the witness is often unable to distinguish between the accurate and inaccurate memories.

My links didn't transfer with the copy and paste, so if you want to read more you can reach the links through this post:

As for Jorah...I have another theory that I'm working about regarding him, but it will have to wait until it's finished...lets just say he may have a part in the conspiracy.

Okay, we have now officially fallen through the rabbit-hole.  Nothing were are told in the text can be trusted because... (I gave up at this point).  

You are going about this backwards.  The recommended method is that you read the material, and think, "hey maybe X is true!"  You then go looking for support in the text and find it (or not)  You then post the idea and hope others can find evidence to back it up or reject it.  You use inversion analysis and other meta-analysis to buttress your theory, not to bring it about in the first place.  If you have to force or twist the text to fit your theory, then something is probably wrong with the theory.  It should fit the text, not need to be forced into it..

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

Memory retrieval is even more mysterious than storage. When I ask if you know Alex Ritchie, the answer is immediately obvious to you, and there is no good theory to explain how memory retrieval can happen so quickly. Moreover, the act of retrieval can destabilize the memory. When you recall a past event, the memory becomes temporarily susceptible to erasure. Some intriguing recent experiments show it is possible to chemically block memories from reforming during that window, suggesting new ethical questions that require careful consideration.

Is there not enough mental masturbation in the five novels to amuse?

[Melifeather]

45 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

I didn't need to add anything. the theory was shot full of holes chicago gangster style on the first page.
Pro Tip: you don't get to tell people to move along in a public space  

Fine. Stay. I would appreciate constructive criticism then.

16 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Okay, we have now officially fallen through the rabbit-hole.  Nothing were are told in the text can be trusted because... (I gave up at this point).  

You are going about this backwards.  The recommended method is that you read the material, and think, "hey maybe X is true!"  You then go looking for support in the text and find it (or not)  You then post the idea and hope others can find evidence to back it up or reject it.  You use inversion analysis and other meta-analysis to buttress your theory, not to bring it about in the first place.  If you have to force or twist the text to fit your theory, then something is probably wrong with the theory.  It should fit the text, not need to be forced into it..

OK. I realize I sound a bit crazy here, but hear me out. There are some confusing passages where people have conflicting accounts. The first that comes to mind is Dany's memories of home with the little red door. In one memory she has lemon trees and in another it's woodsy with great wooden carved beams. 

2 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Is there not enough mental masturbation in the five novels to amuse?

These books have kept me amused for several years, thanks for asking!

[nanother]

5 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I do have a larger, over arcing theory that has to do with the warding on the Wall, and it's this closing and reopening of the hinge that has caused the inversions. I'll try to condense my thoughts as much as possible...

The story of Durran Godsgrief, the first Storm Lord, who married Elenei, I believe is actually the oral history of the containment and warding of magic after the Long Night. Elenei was the daughter of the god of the sea and goddess of the wind. IMO this is a symbolic telling of how magic (Elenei) was stolen (warded) from two gods.

Melisandre tells us that the Wall is one of the great hinges of the world. A hinge holds a door, and that door is what is holding back or containing magic, which was free and carried about by the sea and wind in Westeros prior to the end of the Long Night. It was contained for the benefit of mankind as symbolized by Elenei taking human form.

Aeron Damphair has a disturbing memory of Euron and a squeaky iron hinge. To me "squeaky" means it's old, and "iron" means it's warded, so my theory is based up something being done to the warding of the hinge at the Wall. The spells have been unraveled, likely due to blood sacrifice.

The reopening of the warding on the Wall means the hinge has been opened. The physical structure of the Wall is obviously still there, but the warding has been undone. The opening of the hinge has caused the inversions. There is another factor in play and that Westeros operates on a wheel of time. I've come across various passages that discuss how the same situations come up and the same families relive these same situations. How many times have we read someone has been reborn or come again? The Targaryens are the example we've been given. We can read about how one ancestor is nearly identical to another. Well, with the hinge open it has caused destiny to flip. Imagine Westeros like a big rock that has been turned over. West is now east, and the north is upside down. The Greyjoys and Targaryens have flipped places, as well as the Lannisters and Martells. If you read the inversion chapters you will see the Greyjoys are going after dragons to conquer Westeros like the Targaryens did, and you have the Martells acting like the Lannisters, doing covert things trying to get their people in positions of power.

Those are fascinating ideas, and it even seems to make sense on this large scale (or at least I think I can re-word it in a way that makes sense to me). The problems start when you try to apply it all the way down to the smallest details and it just starts being at odds with what we've seen through the characters' eyes and thoughts, and much of it just sounds downright crazy (sorry!).

5 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Thank you for the passage. That is the one I wanted. But there is no mention that Ned did anything with Rhaegar's body nor anyone else there?

No, I don't think anything is said about Rhaegar's body in the books.

[NutBurz]

On 15/05/2016 at 11:38 AM, Feather Crystal said:

When the discrepancy was brought to his attention, George R.R. Martin stated that Barristan's recollection of Simon's participation is incorrect and that the aged knight is confusing multiple historical tourneys. It seems therefore likely that Barristan mixed up multiple tourney's at Storm's End in his mind, one hosted by Lord Steffon before his death, and one hosted by Robert after Steffon's death.

This is from the OP, under Contradictions. Could you please link me where this is from?

If this is true, I have no problem with an aging Ser Kevan supressing his real shameful memories of events by forcing himself to believe in a widely accepted lie - that Rhaegar "looked at Lyanna" in a way he believes the prince could have looked at Cersei. Wishful thinking would even have him believe that in case that had happened, he could have been spared the shame he´s trying to supress.

 

I also don´t believe Cersei would necessarily have to be "aroused" in order to be seducing Robert - just like I don´t believe she wouldn´t regret such a plot for even one second in her POVs.

 

And I still find it hard to believe Robert was actively chasing power since he doesn´t seem to enjoy or exert any part of it - he uses his crown exclusively to do more of the same he always did as a lordling: hunting, whoring and drinking.

He´s a fool, so he could easily be pointed into a direction and let his hunting, whoring and drinking do whatever damage the person controlling him expected. But I find it hard to see him as a minion, or a cold political player - he seems anything but cold. He would look at Tywin´s "puny" plan about killing his best friend´s sister and smash a hole somewhere in it with his warhammer so that he didn´t have to go through that.

[Melifeather]

Before I'm all covered in rotten tomatoes, let me also insert that I believe Kevan was thinking about when Rhaegar gave Lyanna the crown of blue roses. He was thinking that if Rhaegar was married to Cersei, he would have never gave Lyanna the flowers. That shocked most everyone at the tourney, but I don't believe it meant he had romantic designs on her. He may have been acknowledging her part in the Knight of the Laughing Tree. He may not have been able to prove anything, but he knew she was involved in some manner. Lets not get into a discussion of the identity of the KofLT here, though please. I'd like to keep the focus of this essay on Tywin.

[Melifeather]

41 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

This is from the OP, under Contradictions. Could you please link me where this is from?

If this is true, I have no problem with an aging Ser Kevan supressing his real shameful memories of events by forcing himself to believe in a widely accepted lie - that Rhaegar "looked at Lyanna" in a way he believes the prince could have looked at Cersei. Wishful thinking would even have him believe that in case that had happened, he could have been spared the shame he´s trying to supress.

 

I also don´t believe Cersei would necessarily have to be "aroused" in order to be seducing Robert - just like I don´t believe she wouldn´t regret such a plot for even one second in her POVs.

 

And I still find it hard to believe Robert was actively chasing power since he doesn´t seem to enjoy or exert any part of it - he uses his crown exclusively to do more of the same he always did as a lordling: hunting, whoring and drinking.

He´s a fool, so he could easily be pointed into a direction and let his hunting, whoring and drinking do whatever damage the person controlling him expected. But I find it hard to see him as a minion, or a cold political player - he seems anything but cold. He would look at Tywin´s "puny" plan about killing his best friend´s sister and smash a hole somewhere in it with his warhammer so that he didn´t have to go through that.

It can be found in the wiki under Tourney at Storm's End

I don't think Cersei would have any regrets. Is that what you're saying? the double negative makes it seem that you think she would regret.

We only get to see Robert after he's already king. He couldn't have known the responsibility since he never got the chance to even be a real Lord. He was a boy fostered with Jon Arryn up until he went to war.

I'm not trying to say Robert is a fool or a minion, but I think he's colder than readers recognize. He had no qualms over Rhaenys or Aegon's savage murders, and he wanted Dany and Viserys hunted down like the dragon spawn he viewed them as.

[Melifeather]

56 minutes ago, nanother said:

Those are fascinating ideas, and it even seems to make sense on this large scale (or at least I think I can re-word it in a way that makes sense to me). The problems start when you try to apply it all the way down to the smallest details and it just starts being at odds with what we've seen through the characters' eyes and thoughts, and much of it just sounds downright crazy (sorry!).

No, I don't think anything is said about Rhaegar's body in the books.

It is a bit crazy, but it's something that is an incomplete work. I hope you'll reserve judgement until I complete the whole thing. There's 30 inversion chapters and I've only completed 7. I expect a lot more to be revealed.

I'm not backing away from the false memories or the layering of memories due to the hinge being opened. It's just a different concept and something this new can be confusing...and of course the deciphering isn't a perfect science. I look first for the parallel events and then take note of the inversions. I have gone back many times and revised completed chapters after a newer one provided additional insight, so it's constantly evolving.

NOTICE TO ALL READERS OF THIS THREAD:

Speaking of my inversion project, while this particular thread has been enjoyable for me, it is time consuming. I'd like to be able to dedicate all of my attention to it, but I'd like to work on my inversion project as well. There are responses that I've promised to get back to that require a bit more time to gather evidence and such, and I probably won't get to those replies (like Ygrain's for instance) for a few more days, but if this thread happens to reach 19 pages...(maybe it will, maybe it won't)...it will end at 19 pages and there will not be a part 2. 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

1 hour ago, NutBurz said:

If this is true, I have no problem with an aging Ser Kevan supressing his real shameful memories of events by forcing himself to believe in a widely accepted lie - that Rhaegar "looked at Lyanna" in a way he believes the prince could have looked at Cersei. Wishful thinking would even have him believe that in case that had happened, he could have been spared the shame he´s trying to supress.

Sorry, but there is a real problem with this. If aging Ser Kevan was suppressing his real shameful memories, how would we know? We are inside his head in that chapter and so he would have to think that thought, and then suppress it, which means we readers would witness it. If all he thinks is, "If Rhaegar were married to Cersei..." etc., it's simply not possible to tell that he's thinking that in order to not think of something else.

If Ser Kevan's thought processes had gone something like Scarlett O'Hara's, as in "I won't think about that now. I'll think about that tomorrow", then yeah you'd be onto something.

 

[NutBurz]

8 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I don't think Cersei would have any regrets. Is that what you're saying? the double negative makes it seem that you think she would regret.

We only get to see Robert after he's already king. He couldn't have known the responsibility since he never got the chance to even be a real Lord. He was a boy fostered with Jon Arryn up until he went to war.

I´m not here to throw tomatoes, I hope you notice. ^^ I think your theory has plenty of merit, except for the points I mentioned, and I consider myself open to any possibilities backed by the text. I only reply hoping I can help you further strenghten your own theory.

 

That said, I can maybe accept that Robert might have chased power without knowing what it was, like he was chasing "more hunting, whoring and drinking", and I can even accept that we didn´t know Robert at all in order to judge whether his friendship towards Ned was deep enough for him to care about his sister more than he cared about "hunting, whoring and drinking" (even though Ned "loves" Robert for remembering Lyanna after so many years - but then again, Ned was never very bright). 

However, Cersei loathed Robert when we get into her head. If she had ever plotted to become his Queen, don´t you think she would have regreted it even for a second while he was still alive? "I wish we could have plotted so I wound up with Rhaegar" or "Where would I be if I hadn´t plotted to be Queen" or "Wouldn´t the profecy come true anyway even if I hadn´t plotted to become Queen?" or anything of the like.

 

4 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Sorry, but there is a real problem with this. If aging Ser Kevan was suppressing his real shameful memories, how would we know? We are inside his head in that chapter and so he would have to think that thought, and then suppress it

I do agree.

I believe that a character with a longer exposition to the reader could count on certain patterns to indicate that his thoughts or words might not be true, or that he might be automatically lying to himself. But in the case of Ser Kevan, I think there should be at least the invocation of an apparently out-of-place image right before he went on to expose the reader with something that would be a lie, sort of like the brain does.

[Melifeather]

5 hours ago, NutBurz said:

I´m not here to throw tomatoes, I hope you notice. ^^ I think your theory has plenty of merit, except for the points I mentioned, and I consider myself open to any possibilities backed by the text. I only reply hoping I can help you further strenghten your own theory.

 

Hey, thanks for not throwing! I appreciate the kudos! 

My biggest hurdle is that my theory is too big to condense into one thread. Who Jon's parents are is just one small part of a very, very, very big tale. GRRM has written 5 books with 2 promised to go.

I was actually quite encouraged by the most recent Arianne chapter that he just posted on his website as it brought up the story of Storm's End, the First Storm Lord, and Elenei yet again. I haven't counted how many times he's inserted this ancient history, but its as important as the Wall. I think most readers are expecting something to happen involving the Wall, but the funny thing is that it already has.

 

 

 

I think the mummers version has included some elements to set up for a future reveal regarding the hinge and the wheel of time. The first thing I noticed was a reference to traveling into the past as being under the sea. Since the Greyjoys and Targaryens have traded destinies, the religion of the Drowned God in now upon the north, because that's where Aemon was before he died and Bloodraven is there too. The latest episode showed Dany wreathed in flames. Dany is the original Mother of Dragons, as in the very first one. Mirri told her Rhaego had died years ago, because if Dany is at a genesis point on the wheel, Rhaego was at the opposite end. 

 

 

5 hours ago, NutBurz said:

That said, I can maybe accept that Robert might have chased power without knowing what it was, like he was chasing "more hunting, whoring and drinking", and I can even accept that we didn´t know Robert at all in order to judge whether his friendship towards Ned was deep enough for him to care about his sister more than he cared about "hunting, whoring and drinking" (even though Ned "loves" Robert for remembering Lyanna after so many years - but then again, Ned was never very bright). 

 

We've got a dead girl mystery, and if we approached it as a criminal investigation, the first thing to ask is, who would benefit the most from her disappearance?

1) Tywin wanted Cersei to be queen

2) No woman has ever ruled Westeros, so he needed to marry her to a king

3) Rhaegar was already married. It doesn't matter what Dorne does. Kings Landing no longer tolerates plural marriage.

4) The ideal king candidate would have some Targaryen blood - legitimate claim.

5) Robert was promised to Lyanna, so Lyanna had to go.

6) Bonus points for turning the northern alliance against all Targaryens, cementing them behind a cause.

7) What was the end result? Cersei became queen, Robert became king.

The dead direwolf scene in the beginning of GOT told us exactly what happened. The stag killed the direwolf. Bonus points, the Storm Lord killed the moonmaid. (an inversion to when the first Storm Lord married Elenei)

 

5 hours ago, NutBurz said:

However, Cersei loathed Robert when we get into her head. If she had ever plotted to become his Queen, don´t you think she would have regreted it even for a second while he was still alive? "I wish we could have plotted so I wound up with Rhaegar" or "Where would I be if I hadn´t plotted to be Queen" or "Wouldn´t the profecy come true anyway even if I hadn´t plotted to become Queen?" or anything of the like.

 

She didn't loathe in the very beginning. That came later after Robert called her Lyanna. But Cersei wanted to be queen. She'd rather be queen and unmarried, but she understands that the rest of Seven Kingdoms would never support that. She's always wanted power and privilege. She's jealous of Jaime. I don't think she loves him like he loves her. She's too big of a narcissist herself. As long as he was helping her get what she wanted, and as long as he worshipped her, she lusted for him, but it was never love.

I read something the other day that I believe Elio wrote, but I cannot remember where I read it...anyways, he said GRRM is on record as saying Tywin married his cousin Joanna to keep the Lannister bloodline pure. So I'm thinking maybe he didn't mind that Cersei and Jaime created his grandchildren? He may have secretly preferred this. He was only concerned with how others perceived it.

 

[Melifeather]

Why does this forum have such strange results when you try to put things in quotes or spoiler tags, or copy and paste?

[Dorian Martell]

8 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Fine. Stay. I would appreciate constructive criticism then.

Nothing in this theory is supported in any way in the books. You even state your theory is based on another theory. If you had something, which you do not, there would be no glaring holes in the theory like: Cersei has no memory of Bob before their wedding. 
If she had, then there would be something to talk about. But there isn't. So, there is some constructive criticism.  
 

[Melifeather]

5 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Nothing in this theory is supported in any way in the books. You even state your theory is based on another theory. If you had something, which you do not, there would be no glaring holes in the theory like: Cersei has no memory of Bob before their wedding. 
If she had, then there would be something to talk about. But there isn't. So, there is some constructive criticism.  
 

Everything is supported by the books. The marriage alliances are straight from the book. The way Aerys suspiciously viewed them is straight from the book. Kevan holding nobles hostage is straight from the book. Tywin sending out raiding parties without banners is straight from the book. Cersei wanting to be her father's heir and also queen is straight from the book. Tywin as a brilliant strategist, being capable of negotiating contracts with shocking outcomes, and completely destroying his enemies is straight out of the book. What's not in the books?

The other (hinge) theory is an over all arcing theory, which actually doesn't have to be true for the Tywin theory to be true since the hinge wasn't reopened until after the Rebellion. 

[Ygrain]

 

19 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

As for the "damning" line about Rhaegar not looking at Lyanna...I hesitate to give you my answer, because I think I know how'd react anyways, but the opening of the hinge has caused false memories. Layering a new reality over the old one, plus there's the very real scientific fact about memories: they cannot be trusted:

Memory retrieval is even more mysterious than storage. When I ask if you know Alex Ritchie, the answer is immediately obvious to you, and there is no good theory to explain how memory retrieval can happen so quickly. Moreover, the act of retrieval can destabilize the memory. When you recall a past event, the memory becomes temporarily susceptible to erasure. Some intriguing recent experiments show it is possible to chemically block memories from reforming during that window, suggesting new ethical questions that require careful consideration.

10 Unsolved Mysteries of the Brain

False memories are common

"That is, witnesses who discuss an event with a co-witness are very likely to incorporate misinformation presented by the co-witness into their own memory for the event," she said.

"Once their memory has been contaminated in this way, the witness is often unable to distinguish between the accurate and inaccurate memories.

My links didn't transfer with the copy and paste, so if you want to read more you can reach the links through this post:

I certainly agree that memories can be false in real life but in books, character have false memories only when their author write them so. Unless you can show at least one instance where Kevan has a false memory, he doesn't have any.

19 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

As for Jorah...I have another theory that I'm working about regarding him, but it will have to wait until it's finished...lets just say he may have a part in the conspiracy.

If you need to drag every character whose observation doesn't fit with your theory into the conspiration, there is probably something fundamentally wrong with both.

16 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Before I'm all covered in rotten tomatoes, let me also insert that I believe Kevan was thinking about when Rhaegar gave Lyanna the crown of blue roses. He was thinking that if Rhaegar was married to Cersei, he would have never gave Lyanna the flowers. That shocked most everyone at the tourney, but I don't believe it meant he had romantic designs on her. He may have been acknowledging her part in the Knight of the Laughing Tree. He may not have been able to prove anything, but he knew she was involved in some manner. Lets not get into a discussion of the identity of the KofLT here, though please. I'd like to keep the focus of this essay on Tywin.

The fact that Rhaegar gave the crown to Lyanna may have been shocking at that moment but if nothing of importance ever followed, there is zero reason for Kevan to think that Rhaegar wouldn't have wanted Lyanna if he had had Cersei. Thus in Kevan's mind, Rhaegar is established as having a thing for Lyanna.

[Melifeather]

24 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

 

I certainly agree that memories can be false in real life but in books, character have false memories only when their author write them so. Unless you can show at least one instance where Kevan has a false memory, he doesn't have any.

If you need to drag every character whose observation doesn't fit with your theory into the conspiration, there is probably something fundamentally wrong with both.

The fact that Rhaegar gave the crown to Lyanna may have been shocking at that moment but if nothing of importance ever followed, there is zero reason for Kevan to think that Rhaegar wouldn't have wanted Lyanna if he had had Cersei. Thus in Kevan's mind, Rhaegar is established as having a thing for Lyanna.

I was agreeing that Kevan thought Rhaegar "looked" at Lyanna when he gave her the roses, and his thought was if he had married Cersei instead of Elia, then he would have never even looked. IMO this sounds like justification for the part that he played.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 17/5/2016 at 11:03 PM, Feather Crystal said:

At least some of the people you've quoted had something constructive to add. You've gone to a lot of work just to tell me you think this is a joke. You've made your point, now move along.

Αctually calling something out as the joke that really is, is a constructive thing to do.

[Hangover of the Morning]

On 15 May 2016 at 3:38 PM, Feather Crystal said:

 

Here is how the plan was carried out. Robert goes to Winterfell to collect Lyanna after Rickard and Brandon left for Riverrun for the marriage to Catelyn Tully. He doesn’t raise any suspicions as he’s a known friend of the Starks, and he’s got Maester Walys’s help on the inside. Lyanna was sick with red spots at the time, so she was isolated from the rest of the household and under Walys’s care. (This mirrors how Arianne and Arys got Myrcella out of Sunspear.) She would have been weak from her illness and unaware that it was Robert under Rhaegar’s armor. They ride towards Aerys’s detachment. Maester Walys has Lyanna sedated so she really isn’t in any state to resist nor realize what is happening. The detachment was camped out for the night when Robert dressed as Rhaegar shows up with Maester Walys and Lyanna in tow. Ever the gallant knight, Ser Arthur rescues Lyanna, but he dare not kill his friend and prince, but where does he go? Where should he take her?

Is this some crazy fanfiction as I don't remember any of this hinted at let alone mentioned in the books. Most of the stuff goes against what we know for a fact from the books, such as Lyanna being in Riverlands prior to Brandon's wedding so unlikely that she was sick in Winterfell. The Robert/Rhaegar switcheroo is utterly implausible and goes agains everything we know about those two characters and thus is just made up out of the blue to support this far-fetched crackpot. 

[Melifeather]

17 minutes ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

Is this some crazy fanfiction as I don't remember any of this hinted at let alone mentioned in the books. Most of the stuff goes against what we know for a fact from the books, such as Lyanna being in Riverlands prior to Brandon's wedding so unlikely that she was sick in Winterfell. The Robert/Rhaegar switcheroo is utterly implausible and goes agains everything we know about those two characters and thus is just made up out of the blue to support this far-fetched crackpot. 

The World book is the only one that says Lyanna was in the Riverlands and is supposed to be an in-world" history book written by a maester as a gift to Robert Baratheon, so it's history the way the victors want it.

I understand those not familiar with the inversion chapters would be hesitant to accept that this very story is implied in The Queenmaker chapter, but it's there. 

There are two main factors at play in Westeros: the wheel of time, and the warded hinge at the Wall. Both of these things affect how destiny is played out. The wheel of time had four major turns:

1) First Men

2) Andals

3) Rhoynar

4) Targaryens

Sometime before Ned and his family found the dead direwolf, the warding of the hinge was unraveled causing it to open and release magic. At the same time it flipped destiny...west is now east and the north is upside down. It has also caused the wheel of time to go in reverse. We are now seeing:

1) Targaryens - Dany is the original Mother of Dragons. The Targaryens somehow got their dragons from Asshai, so she is now the starting point. The Targaryens and Greyjoys have switched places, so now we've got Euron going to go get dragons to invade Westeros like Aeron the Conqueror did. He will likely fail, since we're going backwards it will be the opposite of Aegon.

2) Rhoynar - The Lannisters have switched with the Martells. Now the Martells are doing underhanded deals to get their heirs in positions of power. Arianne is currently on her way to JonCon's Aegon. She too will ultimately fail.

3) Andals - Tommen's rule is being challenged by the Citadel and the Faith of the Seven. They will likely be overtaken by the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant.

4) First Men - Leaf told Bran the wolves would outlive us all since the wheel of time will get to them last. Not sure if Bran will be able to stop the wheel and reclose the hinge in time for the Starks to be the last family standing, but it seems likely that this will be where the story is heading.

This isn't fan fiction. This inversion story has been given to us by the author. It all depends upon whether you recognize it or not.