[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, williamwire said:

GOT Season 6:

Men so weak, women so strong, revenge is awesome

...to emphasize one of the themes of this season.

Badass sisters and weak brothers... "Women on top" and "kill the weak men"...  Revenge revenge revenge...

[majgat]

oh, god I just saw a trailer for Ep 5. Littlefinger's teleportin' again....

[Neds Secret]

10 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Ramsay Bolton is a complete one-dimensional bad guy.  He has been Olly-fied (always on the screen and always bad) beyond all reason and now represents torture porn.  Whatever
-path he is, psycho-, socio-, or both, the writers have turned a bad guy into nothing but a bad guy.  Any complexity - gone.  Any motivations - gone.  He is no longer of any interest to me as a viewer because he is so predictable as to border on boring: Give me Sansa so I can kill her.  I have Rickon and I will kill him.  Yesterday I killed Osha.  The day before that I killed Walda, day before that I .....

There is that old saying, that to a small boy with a hammer, everything is a nail...  To these writers, why just write up a complex bad guy when you can create a flat monster.  So they did. Roose, evil though he was, was more interesting than twisted Ramsay. 

 

Its just butchery, it's not realistic, there is no grey personality, his heart is not in conflict with itself because he ain't got a heart, Ramsays development has mirrored  the shows decline in quality. Ramsay has no real goals except to kill, he does not kill to gain power, he just uses whatever power he does have in order to kill. There is no story there, it's just like watching Freddy Krueger now, Ramsay is just a horror movie bad guy and he does not really belong in a complex political story that AsoiaF is and GoT started out as. I think that D$D just dig Iwans acting and cannot stop themselves from writing more scenes for him, the D$s have some sort of weird obsession with either the character or worse the Actor and seem unable to realise that the character they have created is illogical. Ramsay has conquered the narrative and that every scene he's in destroys the shows credibility to the point that GoT has turned into a show that parodies itself.  It is now absurd, it's obvious that the D$s are setting Ramsay up to die but for the sake of the show I think episode 9 may be too late, I'm not sure adult viewers with a brain can stand this Cartoon villain living that long, it's beyond sufferance to witness this psycho continually having everything go his way and face no consequences, his mere death just won't cut it, he deserves a fate worse than death!

[Paxter Redwyne]

I would like to only honor yara for yelling at theon that it is his fault that he was captured, tortured, castrated and mentally destroyed.

 

[teemo]

It's sad because Iwan Rheon is sooooo talented, and he's stuck with this horrible role.  There is no depth to his character at all.  Like someone else said, he is just boring. He's making the most of it, but I would still like to see him in something much better than this.  That's like every actor on the show, I know, but I really, really like Iwan.....I was pretty upset when he was cast, honestly, because I knew it would turn out like this.  

[Crixus]

Yeah, I watched Misfits recently and was surprised at how likeable he was. Add him to the list of squandered talent.

As for Jaime, LOL. I can't even muster an ounce of feeling, he's so damned bland and useless and just, there. 

I've started disliking Dinklage because of this shit. Who's next? Lena Headey (nooo!)

Thank fuck Sean Bean, Madden and Fairley are out and safe. Hope Alfie joins them soon. 

[teemo]

Jaime looks like such a jock....the fact that most of the male characters don't have long hair is still jarring to me.  I rewatched LOTR lately and I don't understand why the GoT actors can't have hair like that.  Did D&D think it wasn't manly enough or something?  Oberyn having short hair really took me out of it as well, considering he's such a free spirit.  I mean, Ned and Jon have long hair, but Oberyn doesn't?  Maybe that sounds stupid and petty, but it really annoys me.  

I mentioned a few weeks ago about how this show has made me like a lot of these actors less, even Dinklage, who I just adored before GoT.  I still like him, but I don't know....I just  kind of hate everything and everyone in this show. Even Ramin Djawadi is getting on my nerves, lol.

I have only watched the first episode of this season still, LOL.  Like I said before, there is just soooo much good television to watch, I don't have the time to watch this garbage.  I feel like this thread pretty much gives me all the information I need.  This week - Osha dies, Ramsay is boring, Dany shows her tits and is immune to fire, Jaime is a boring pansy.....yeah, sounds about right.  

[Eltharion21]

2 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Its just butchery, it's not realistic, there is no grey personality, his heart is not in conflict with itself because he ain't got a heart, Ramsays development has mirrored  the shows decline in quality. Ramsay has no real goals except to kill, he does not kill to gain power, he just uses whatever power he does have in order to kill. There is no story there, it's just like watching Freddy Krueger now, Ramsay is just a horror movie bad guy and he does not really belong in a complex political story that AsoiaF is and GoT started out as. I think that D$D just dig Iwans acting and cannot stop themselves from writing more scenes for him, the D$s have some sort of weird obsession with either the character or worse the Actor and seem unable to realise that the character they have created is illogical. Ramsay has conquered the narrative and that every scene he's in destroys the shows credibility to the point that GoT has turned into a show that parodies itself.  It is now absurd, it's obvious that the D$s are setting Ramsay up to die but for the sake of the show I think episode 9 may be too late, I'm not sure adult viewers with a brain can stand this Cartoon villain living that long, it's beyond sufferance to witness this psycho continually having everything go his way and face no consequences, his mere death just won't cut it, he deserves a fate worse than death!

Truly I agree, the writers just keep reusing same ideas and themes , combining them into convoluted mess...

It is really disheartening considering show had nice start ( while it followed novels closer), looking into other media related to the show and its lore it looks even worse for the future development. 

For instance this scene seems  familiar: (Spoiler for Telltale game of thrones)

Spoiler

Telltale GOT episode 1 ending 

 

 

[Forlong the Fat]

6 hours ago, williamwire said:

GOT Season 6:

Men so weak, women so strong, revenge is awesome

...to emphasize one of the themes of this season.

Uh oh. Now the MRAs have got their memes going. This is getting serious. 

[Masha's apron]

I feel as though they are treading water with these early episodes. So many seconds are spent on nothingness.

A perfect example from ep4 was the achingly long time it took for Pycelle to cross the room and another hideously boring High Sparrow monologue. And what exactly was the point of killing Osha? What was the point of the scene where Tommen tells his mother that the High Sparrow told him something (that we don't hear)? And what exactly was the point of the "old man" dialogue between Mormont and Fabio?

It's as though they are aware of the major events they have to cover from this point until the end of season 7, and they are dragging out the run-up to them because they don't know any of GRRM's subplots or plot manoeuvres, and daren't come up with anything themselves.

I mean, just look at the way Tyrion is behaving in Meereen. When he became HotK in Westeros, he spent his time going through the treasury books and informing himself about the state of the Crown's finances. Here, in ep4, we have him suggesting an alternative economic system for the cities of Slaver's Bay, yet there is no evidence he actually knows how the economies of those cities really work. All he appears to have done is drunk wine and tried to play games. Old Tyrion would have spent his days learning more about Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor than the masters actually know -- and he would have suggested another economic system by relating facts of their present system that they did not know.             

But what is really annoying me is the way the show has got rid of almost all the male, middle-aged, experienced warrior lord characters that actually know what they are doing in terms of governance and command. I mean, who have we got left? Davos? Royce? Royce was emasculated in the scene with Reliant Robin and Baelish. And even Davos has been diminished by his new, oddly weak manner in the face of Melisandre.

The absence of these type of male characters is really starting to become apparent now Stannis and Roose have gone (and, to a smaller extent, Doran). If you take away all the characters that are 21 or under, what have you got left? Obsessives of all stripes, a handful of geriatrics, a spy and an Oscar Wilde in baggy pants, that's who. Oh, and Tormund ... who seems to be the only normal bloke left (and even he has to make a cock joke).   

Indeed, do any of the remaining characters actually have any experience of governing anything without screwing it up? Even Jon admitted he failed as Lord Commander in ep4, and has gone all whiny pants since he got killed.    

Show-Westeros is now a patriarchal society with no patriarchs, which means it has no establishment spine for its socio-political context.  

I have to say, after ep4, I feel the show is Harry Potterising itself (the idiotic notion that an 18-year-old with a magic *something* and a "destiny" and his/her mates are somehow the equivalent of the combined forces of experienced adults against a great and old evil).

I mean, even the Khals were little more than blood-drunk brodudes on a Dothraki Spring Break.

It is so disappointing now. I'm only watching it for the big reveals.

[Orphalesion]

It seems nobody in King's Landing is going outside anymore, they just teleport from one building to the other. In earlier seasons it almost seemed like they lived in the palace gardens (particularly Olenna with her gazebo) and now they all seemed to have developed agoraphobia.

I know it's because they lost the shooting location, but they could at least justifying it by saying it's getting colder and people don't go into the gardens anymore because of that.

[rhythmicsheep]

On 16/05/2016 at 10:03 AM, LadySoftheart said:

I truly think the showrunners believe that they are making Brienne a Strong Female Character TM, without Book!Brienne's kindness and empathy to weigh down their badass heroine here. Remembwe that Sansa had to be driven by revenge to become strong.  Remember that Doran was weak for not going to war so it was totally empowering for Ellaria to kill him. The only thing that matters is revenge and the only women who deserve a real story are the ones who kill people. In the show, Arya and her spiritual kindred (let's call them the "girls are stupid/not a bloody woman" brigade*) are always valued far more than Sansa, and the notion that there is strength in retaining your compassion and empathy for others is completely alien to this show.

*Especially because these are actually diametrically opposed to what the book characters say - Arya says that the woman is important too and Brienne that women have courage, even if it's not battle courage. I guess that would just be too confusing for the show!

^ exactly. The books have such a diverse appreciation of the emotional range of a human being. The show seems to be falling hella short.

On 16/05/2016 at 10:33 AM, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

Remember way back when a surprise stabby stab was a surprise?

 

You know... S3 Ep9

Now we get: 

• S5 Ep 10 - For the Watch
• S6 Ep 1 - Entire Martell bloodline
• S6 Ep 2 - Roose
• S6 Ep 3 -  The Swords of the Morning
• S6 Ep 4 - Osha

Kinda feel the impact is wearing off just a bit.

Yup. When you make surprise a trope, you're going too far.

 

[TepidHands]

8 hours ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

I think it all started going downhill at the end of season 4, when he forgot to mention the truth about Tysha while freeing his brother, who then in return should have told him the truth about Cersei (I sooooooo wanted to see that scene!!!). 

What truth about Cersei? There's no Kettleblacks, just Lancel, and that's long over. She's just an over-invested helicopter parent, who just lost her dad and was sexually humiliated by a bunch of religious nuts. Poor Cersei! 

 

[TWR]

3 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

I would like to only honor yara for yelling at theon that it is his fault that he was captured, tortured, castrated and mentally destroyed.

 

If he had left Winterfell with her when she asked none of that would have happened.

[Neds Secret]

1 hour ago, Masha's apron said:

I feel as though they are treading water with these early episodes. So many seconds are spent on nothingness.

A perfect example from ep4 was the achingly long time it took for Pycelle to cross the room and another hideously boring High Sparrow monologue. And what exactly was the point of killing Osha? What was the point of the scene where Tommen tells his mother that the High Sparrow told him something (that we don't hear)? And what exactly was the point of the "old man" dialogue between Mormont and Fabio?

It's as though they are aware of the major events they have to cover from this point until the end of season 7, and they are dragging out the run-up to them because they don't know any of GRRM's subplots or plot manoeuvres, and daren't come up with anything themselves.

I mean, just look at the way Tyrion is behaving in Meereen. When he became HotK in Westeros, he spent his time going through the treasury books and informing himself about the state of the Crown's finances. Here, in ep4, we have him suggesting an alternative economic system for the cities of Slaver's Bay, yet there is no evidence he actually knows how the economies of those cities really work. All he appears to have done is drunk wine and tried to play games. Old Tyrion would have spent his days learning more about Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor than the masters actually know -- and he would have suggested another economic system by relating facts of their present system that they did not know.             

But what is really annoying me is the way the show has got rid of almost all the male, middle-aged, experienced warrior lord characters that actually know what they are doing in terms of governance and command. I mean, who have we got left? Davos? Royce? Royce was emasculated in the scene with Reliant Robin and Baelish. And even Davos has been diminished by his new, oddly weak manner in the face of Melisandre.

The absence of these type of male characters is really starting to become apparent now Stannis and Roose have gone (and, to a smaller extent, Doran). If you take away all the characters that are 21 or under, what have you got left? Obsessives of all stripes, a handful of geriatrics, a spy and an Oscar Wilde in baggy pants, that's who. Oh, and Tormund ... who seems to be the only normal bloke left (and even he has to make a cock joke).   

Indeed, do any of the remaining characters actually have any experience of governing anything without screwing it up? Even Jon admitted he failed as Lord Commander in ep4, and has gone all whiny pants since he got killed.    

Show-Westeros is now a patriarchal society with no patriarchs, which means it has no establishment spine for its socio-political context.  

I have to say, after ep4, I feel the show is Harry Potterising itself (the idiotic notion that an 18-year-old with a magic *something* and a "destiny" and his/her mates are somehow the equivalent of the combined forces of experienced adults against a great and old evil).

I mean, even the Khals were little more than blood-drunk brodudes on a Dothraki Spring Break.

It is so disappointing now. I'm only watching it for the big reveals.

I actually think a lot of us are really only watching it for the big reveals. The problem is the sewer of shit writing and nonsense you have to wade through to get to these reveals, even the ToJ reveal has been postponed unfortunately!

[No One of Importance]

Why did Daario, who spent his whole life in Essos (right?) and carries a Dothraki sword, need a lesson in Dothraki culture from Jorah the Andal? 

[watcher of the night]

14 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

How do the Dothraki know that? All they've known their whole lives is the Dothraki life. And it's not just about the magic, its about the fact that Dany challenged, and defeated, the men that were leading them. We've been given every reason to believe, given the Dothraki culture, that they would respond positively to that rather than negatively.

How the hell they know that? They could not see or hear what happened inside the building.

[lakin1013]

The High Septon needs to consider meditation as the dude does not shut up.  They cast a really good actor, the character is well designed, and he has that scary undercurrent of righteous evil power that zealots tend to own.  But instead we get a talker.  The whole boring story about shoes - I do not know how Margaery stayed awake.   He went to a party ...lots of woman and food...lots of shoes ...blah blah blah and I missed the end.  Dude doesn't wear shoes now right?  Shoes are bad?  Why not move this character along to whatever his destiny is -- I assume death but shoe maker to the stars would be fine.  Just stop talking!!!

[Forlong the Fat]

3 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

It seems nobody in King's Landing is going outside anymore, they just teleport from one building to the other. In earlier seasons it almost seemed like they lived in the palace gardens (particularly Olenna with her gazebo) and now they all seemed to have developed agoraphobia.

I know it's because they lost the shooting location, but they could at least justifying it by saying it's getting colder and people don't go into the gardens anymore because of that.

That would be very interesting. They could have two, perhaps three scenes discussing whether and how frequently they go to the garden. 

[The Knight in Motley]

Characters are so butchered in this show...

I'll agree that the ending of Tyrion's ASoS arc in season 4 planted a lot of the seeds for failure in later seasons, namely two things:

Tyrion throwing up when Oberon loses.  Removing a scene where Tyrion loses all hope was a terrible idea.  This is the kind of shock the audience is missing: a beloved character at their lowest point when all hope is lost and a character that has always been confident, rock solid and always sure of themselves in a moment where it has all gone to shit and even they are 150% fucked.  I put forward that his moment in the show would be the "beautification of St. Tyrion".

Tyrion and Jamie

When you remove a major conflict from the show for virtually no reason then you alter their paths forever.  Tyrion's anger at his family, the truth of what happened to Tysha, is the primary motivation for killing his father.  D&D decided to make Tyrion less complex and more perfect, and I guess already knew they wanted Jamie to be a whipped cur of his perfect sister at this point, because Tyrion not telling Jamie of Cersei's infidelities was a twist of the dagger for a betrayal that never happened.

Worst of all, I believe they removed this scene because they had already removed the Kettleblacks, and saw no reason at all for Tyrion to mention Cersei's sleeping around.  Heck Lancel was incest, so Jamie'd have to be a hypocrite to object, right?

--------------

Ramsey.  I'll just second what everyone has said, Ramsey is just a force of nature.  I half expect Jorah's greyscale to just turn into Ramsey and stab him to death.  It was Ramsey's 20 good men who poured the oil on the Dothraki Convention Center, and I won't be surprised if Ramsey is revealed to have hired Qyburn to use alchemy to turn his hounds into Dornish women.  It is a sign of terribly weak and lazy writing to create an uber-villian who uses shock and murder for the sole reason of calling a show 'mature'.  Have you noticed the considerable drop in nudity and sex now that Ramsey is stabbing his way North?  Its as if the writers are getting off on something else...

--------------

The High Cobbler.  Until this last episode I was convinced that Jonathan Pryce's character was completely unaware of how his followers were reacting to his leadership, as if he'd be shocked at just how 'devout' Septon Shame was at people and the Faith Militant rooting out sin with cudgels.  His story of running the shop and seeing the decadence of that life was utter crap.  He found the Gods, not psychosis.  I realized that more than likely Carol would force him to walk naked through the streets as some kind of punishment, and that the show runners would make him react in horror to this and delight in showing it.  In fact they are setting up one of the most genuine characters, the most true to who they are, to be the biggest hypocrite.  Show defenders will love watching the High Willy cry and stumble through the street while the poor and downtrodden mock him and throw food at him.  I loved the character of the HS in the books because he was so different from all the others, someone who was 100% honest about what they were and what they were doing, as much as I love Jonathan Pryce and think he's the perfect person to play the High Sparrow, I hope he gets an Osha out and dies before being butchered any more.

tl;dr  Character building was removed for 'reasons'.