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Osha a self-sacrifice as part of the GNC?


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At least as far as the show goes, I am very worried that Rickon is toast. The "leaked" on set photos show a flayed man during the presumed battle of Winterfell. I worried at the outset that person will be Rickon.

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The book "The North Remembers"

The show "The North Forgets"

In the book the story in the north is great because of all of these moving parts. There simply isn't enough time on the show to do it justice. I think it is a terrible story to have it where LF of all people saves Sansa and the north. I would much rather have the show writers surprise us and have something else happen but I wouldn't place any bets on it. 

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Just now, JMJ said:

At least as far as the show goes, I am very worried that Rickon is toast. The "leaked" on set photos show a flayed man during the presumed battle of Winterfell. I worried at the outset that person will be Rickon.

It will be awhile before the battle happens. I think there is a good chance some other plot lines develop and some people get caught by Ramsey. 

Rickon seems pretty expendable. 

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Sansa is too sure that everything Ramsay says in the pink letter is true. Surely there is a GNC around, Osha and Rickon were way too calm when presented by Smalljon to Ramsay, like all was rehearsed. Rickon will escape through the crypts in my opinion, and it will happen in the same episode we'll see R+L=J, maybe he will stumble upon Rhaegar's harp too. 

Ramsay will die being mauled to death by Shaggydog (set upon him by a wild Rickon), an ironic and fitting end for him, given that being eaten alive by dogs is his prefered choice of killing someone.

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3 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Sansa is too sure that everything Ramsay says in the pink letter is true. Surely there is a GNC around, Osha and Rickon were way too calm when presented by Smalljon to Ramsay, like all was rehearsed. Rickon will escape through the crypts in my opinion, and it will happen in the same episode we'll see R+L=J, maybe he will stumble upon Rhaegar's harp too. 

Ramsay will die being mauled to death by Shaggydog (set upon him by a wild Rickon), an ironic and fitting end for him, given that being eaten alive by dogs is his prefered choice of killing someone.

I'd love to see that, but it's probably a bit too much wishful thinking.

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12 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Sansa is too sure that everything Ramsay says in the pink letter is true. Surely there is a GNC around, Osha and Rickon were way too calm when presented by Smalljon to Ramsay, like all was rehearsed. Rickon will escape through the crypts in my opinion, and it will happen in the same episode we'll see R+L=J, maybe he will stumble upon Rhaegar's harp too. 

Ramsay will die being mauled to death by Shaggydog (set upon him by a wild Rickon), an ironic and fitting end for him, given that being eaten alive by dogs is his prefered choice of killing someone.

 

And if D&D does decide to butcher the North Storyline, then hopefully Ghost will avenge Shaggydog and rip off Smalljon Umber's head.

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18 minutes ago, The Daily Intelligence said:

No because Ramsey needs Rickon until he gets another stark, and handing over Rickon and Osha would make ramsey trust The Umbers, even though the umbers would be taking a risk.

But how would the Umbers know that Ramsay had lost Sansa? As far as they know Ramsay is the Lord of Winterfell and would kill anyone who threatens his claim.

If you were on the side of the Starks you wouldn't hand over one of the last remaining Starks to a murderous psychopath. That would be completely illogical.

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Nah, she just tried the same move that worked on Theon in Season 2 and it didn't work here because Ramsay anticipated it, because Theon told him everything.

She probably thought it would work, and it usually would.

Really, it's a good Ramsay scene too, if you can forget about and isolate it from the Main Event Push he's been getting and the weariness towards Ramsay so many viewers now feel. 

 

 

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This whole situation is truly muddled up. On the one hand you have strait forward D&D, IE what you see is usually what you are going to get. SJU appears to have turned his cloak, killed off Shaggy, and turned over Rickon and Osha. This seems like something D&D would do.

 

Then again they could easily have killed Osha off screen and not paid her for 2 episodes in season 6. We did not even get to see her naked either (typical D&D reasoning to keep a minor female character around). Don't shoot the messenger, just an observation. Also why is it Osha immediately goes in for the seduction kill, when wouldn't she have attempted the same to SJU? I am still not good with the blatantly obvious I will not kneel attitude from SJU.

 

I look at it like this. It is poor story telling either way, as either way makes no sense. D&D have thrown the Stark characters into all kinds of stupid situations and then heavily armored them with plot Armor. Doing the same to Rickon would be following the same as having Bran going North without the protection of Coldhands, or Sansa going to Winterfell without any escorts etc. So I can actually see this as being a half baked GNC situation. 

 

No matter how this plays out the reasoning for either a GNC or a SJU turncloak it does not follow good reason and logic in either case so far. I am still undecided.

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1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

I think people tend to forget that the show and the books are separate.  As you said, the show really isn't that complicated.  They are not going spend valuable screen time on creating some large, complicated Northern conspiracy plot involving dozens of houses.  The show is streamlining things into a very simplistic storyline.  

The *only* twist I can see is the Umbers turning on the Boltons, and that is simply because there are already hints/clues of the Manderly plot from the book being weaved into the Umbers...so I can see an Umber double-cross (with them opening the gates of Winterfell to help Jon and Co. breach the castle), but outside of that, this is it. 

From the season trailer you see Ramsay with a smile on his face from the top of his steed.  It looks to me like he is awaiting a battle in the field.  So I'm very hesitant to believe that Winterfell will be seiged or broken into.  I think it's even far simpler than that.  Jon and his band of free folk and nightswatch, and northern houses that are loyal will go to war in the field with Ramsay, and his band of northern houses and we get a Lord of the rings CGI battle.  

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If this is a GNC, it seems awfully risky. Why would the Umbers gamble on putting Rickon's life in danger? How did they know Ramsay, who is well known for being a mentally unstable, murderous psychopath, wouldn't just kill Rickon on sight? Would they fight back and kill Ramsay right then and there? Why didn't they just do that anyway?

Basically, what I'm asking is: What's the POINT of Rickon even being in Winterfell right now? "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"? Are we going to find out why that phrase is so important?

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1 minute ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

If this is a GNC, it seems awfully risky. Why would the Umbers gamble on putting Rickon's life in danger? How did they know Ramsay, who is well known for being a mentally unstable, murderous psychopath, wouldn't just kill Rickon on sight? Would they fight back and kill Ramsay right then and there? Why didn't they just do that anyway?

Basically, what I'm asking is: What's the POINT of Rickon even being in Winterfell right now? "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"? Are we going to find out why that phrase is so important?

I honestly don't believe the Umbers are trying to double cross the Boltons.  I hope I'm wrong but it's a really stupid move.  He could have handed over any kid and a wolf head.  

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2 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I honestly don't believe the Umbers are trying to double cross the Boltons.  I hope I'm wrong but it's a really stupid move.  He could have handed over any kid and a wolf head.  

I WANT to believe a GNC is afoot, but if the Umbers are part of it, they didn't seem to think their plan through very well.

"Then, Lancelot, Galahad and I jump out of the rabbit...."

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The problem with Osha being part of the conspiracy is... what part did she have in the conspiracy? Aside from dying, which doesnt advance the conspiracy.  I guess you could argue she was tasked with murdering Ramsay, but what are the odds she would ever get anywhere near him? Or even survive the first 5 seconds in his custody (although she did, barely).

The bigger problem with the GNC is now that they would have given away their most valuable asset. The Umbers could have raised Rickons standard to rally the North, or perhaps his knowledge of WF to sneak in and murder the Boltons, but how does Rickon in a cell with a metaphorical knife to his throat aid the conspiracy? Worse- if Bolton get his hands on Sansa, his first move would be to murder Rickon to make Sansa (and their children ultimately) the heir of Winterfell. Its a poor conspiracy that gets its most important player killed at any given second.

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2 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Sansa instantly knew that Ramsay killed Roose, just wanting to point that out. 

She "knows". She's in the position to guess confidently.  Ramsay calling himself Lord/Warden DOES mean Roose is dead, and she'd be in a better position than most to infer that if Roose did suddenly die, its because Ramsay did/would have killed him. 

If she knows knows it's the probably the writers cutting a corner (or, bizarrely, introducing non-Bran STARK WARGING POWERS AT LAST but in the oddest place.  But I'll let you guess which one I deem more likely :D )

She knows because Woman's Intuition (also Ramsay is unsubtle), not GNC.  Not that this precludes getting some GNC-Lite in some form this season.

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