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WalkinDude

The Prince That Was Promised

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So with Melisandre referring to Jon as TPTWP, does that give us our reveal on how Jon will find out he's the son of Rhaegar? 

 

It's pretty certain Bran will learn through a weir wood memory, but that would never leave Bran's circle. With Melissandre revealing it, it comes with a kind of certainty versus the idea Bran will whisper it to Jon by a weir wood. 

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The flashback also introduced Howland, and with Jon about to travel around the North collecting bannermen, I imagine there's a good chance they'll meet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall Mel ever seeing the past in the flames. My money's still on Howland.

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

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12 minutes ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

In the novels Mel seems to use TPtwP and AAR interchangeably. Certainly using the label TPtwP is easier to get your majority Unsullied audience to grasp than AAR.

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1 hour ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

The flashback also introduced Howland, and with Jon about to travel around the North collecting bannermen, I imagine there's a good chance they'll meet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall Mel ever seeing the past in the flames. My money's still on Howland.

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

What was interesting was her lack of enthusiasm as she said it. Even she is not convinced. But in her eyes someone has to be.

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18 hours ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

The flashback also introduced Howland, and with Jon about to travel around the North collecting bannermen, I imagine there's a good chance they'll meet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall Mel ever seeing the past in the flames. My money's still on Howland.

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

probably something has to do with rebirth

Quote

when the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone

 

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1 hour ago, the tower of albion said:

What was interesting was her lack of enthusiasm as she said it. Even she is not convinced. But in her eyes someone has to be.

Maybe she feels bad about the huge mistake she made in burning Shireen at the stake and convincing Stannis that he had to burn his daughter? Maybe she's feeling bad that she got it so wrong with Stannis?

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3 hours ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

The same as she comes to her other conclusions - incorrectly :P

Seriously, it looks like next week we're going to see another Red Priestess announce that Dany is one and the same.

There might need to be a mud-wrestling catfight to resolve this one ^_^ 

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17 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

The same as she comes to her other conclusions - incorrectly :P

Seriously, it looks like next week we're going to see another Red Priestess announce that Dany is one and the same.

There might need to be a mud-wrestling catfight to resolve this one ^_^ 

As would The Hound said "I would pay good money to see that."

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15 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

The same as she comes to her other conclusions - incorrectly :P

Seriously, it looks like next week we're going to see another Red Priestess announce that Dany is one and the same.

There might need to be a mud-wrestling catfight to resolve this one ^_^ 

 

Both can be right at the same time. People forget that the WW have attacked from two directions last time. From the north of Westeros and the east side of Essos. There is a wall made of towers 1000 feet high guarding that part of their world, with a chain of mountains and a sea guarding the flanks.

If Planetos resembles a planet even loosely, there should be a zone between Essos and Westeros connecting both sides. Maybe Dany is taking forever to go to Westeros because she already is where she’s supposed to be. She will lead Essos in this crisis, while Jon&co will lead the fight in the north of Westeros. They’ll just meet in the middle when they push back against the WW and both reach the Lands of Always Winter.

Essos will believe that Dany was their savior, and Westeros will believe Jon was.

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6 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

 

Both can be right at the same time. People forget that the WW have attacked from two directions last time. From the north of Westeros and the east side of Essos. There is a wall made of towers 1000 feet high guarding that part of their world, with a chain of mountains and a sea guarding the flanks.

 

Really? I'm one of those forgetful people! Can you supply the reference for that?

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6 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Really? I'm one of those forgetful people! Can you supply the reference for that?

 

It's from the books, not the show. Most of it from the last one, the one GRRM wrote with the help of Elio and Linda, The World of Ice & Fire,The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones. There are small mentions of other cities having their own version of the last hero in the five original books, same for different religions, but that book has all the mentions in one place. I don't have access to the book now, but I'll find some examples and mail them to you here if you want some specifics.

I don't remember off the top of my head what the show mentioned so far, but if the books will go for that version, I don't think the show can just brush it off as easily as eliminating Faegon or LS. Then again, they could just say that the magical barrier there still holds, and only Westeros will be hit. We'll see.

 

Watch this for a small explanation.

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^  wow, that is simply MASSIVE! 

I figured it was book stuff; I've read World but had forgotten those details. The video ties it all together very clearly. I can absolutely see your hypothesis working out in the books, although how are those Dothraki Hordes going to survive marching east through frozen wastes? It's not going to happen in the show since there's been no hint of these depths until now. It would have to mean the books and show diverge far more radically than I think will be the case, but it's a terrific idea all the same.

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5 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

^  wow, that is simply MASSIVE! 

I figured it was book stuff; I've read World but had forgotten those details. The video ties it all together very clearly. I can absolutely see your hypothesis working out in the books, although how are those Dothraki Hordes going to survive marching east through frozen wastes? It's not going to happen in the show since there's been no hint of these depths until now. It would have to mean the books and show diverge far more radically than I think will be the case, but it's a terrific idea all the same.

 

In order to go west, you must go east.

Well, she doesn’t need to use the Dothaki that far east. She can take her dragons and troops better suited for arctic warfare. Maybe join the armies of Yi Ti and the other cities in that area. And use the Dothaky in the centre of Essos and to the west, harrying the small groups of wights that get past Dany. The other cities could contribute to the fight with food, weapons, clothes, etc while the Iron Fleet and the other ships under Dany’s control could move troops by sea to flank the WW armies in their land. I could imagine Victarion’s face when he goes so far to the east that he ends up back in the IronIslands lol.

But they might skip this in the book as well. They can say that the barrier still holds there, and the NW people there still keep to their oaths, not like the ones in Westeros. Or that the WW will only hit one side first, and go in the other direction only after defeating one of the continents.

But it would be epic to see a fight on multiple fronts. And to see an older Dany(or one of her children, once she can have some again) arriving in Westeros only after she rebuild an unified Essos, only to have to start rebuilding Westeros as well.

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5 hours ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

The flashback also introduced Howland, and with Jon about to travel around the North collecting bannermen, I imagine there's a good chance they'll meet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall Mel ever seeing the past in the flames. My money's still on Howland.

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

That's my thought, as well.  It seems like the perfect setup for Jon to meet with Howland Reed, and the show specifically introduced him by name in the ToJ flashback.

I do think that Jon is TPTWP, but I don't know if we've seen him fulfill the requirements yet.  Of course, requirements and titles mean nothing- action does.  And I would bet that after Jon retakes Winterfell, he's going to set his eyes on protecting the North from the incoming invasion.

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3 hours ago, sandpiper said:

Maybe she has spent the last three hundred years approaching princes and telling them they are the one...

That's how I feel it too. Like "Stannis is dead, let's move on to someone else. So, who do we see... Jon, that one seems like a nice guy. Wait, that Tormund looks cool too, look at the beard! How do decide now? ... *flips a coin* It's decided, Jon is the prince that was promised! Hurray!"

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6 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

That's how I feel it too. Like "Stannis is dead, let's move on to someone else. So, who do we see... Jon, that one seems like a nice guy. Wait, that Tormund looks cool too, look at the beard! How do decide now? ... *flips a coin* It's decided, Jon is the prince that was promised! Hurray!"

 

Come on, you have to admit that Jon’s ascension to godhood was denied by a small technicality. And by that I mean a small member. But he still has a better chance than Thormund.

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32 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

 

Come on, you have to admit that Jon’s ascension to godhood was denied by a small technicality. And by that I mean a small member. But he still has a better chance than Thormund.

 

Tormund's just jealous.

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11 hours ago, sandpiper said:

Maybe she has spent the last three hundred years approaching princes and telling them they are the one...

I can see her doing just that. There must be a reason, why she's still wandering around. Maybe she has some sort of deal with the Red God? Like "you won't die until you see Azor Ahai reborn with your ow eyes".

10 hours ago, Lemore said:

Maybe she feels bad about the huge mistake she made in burning Shireen at the stake and convincing Stannis that he had to burn his daughter? Maybe she's feeling bad that she got it so wrong with Stannis?

 

I don't think she feels bad for killing Shireen for no reason in the end. Or for pushing Stannis on the path, that ultimately lead to his death. I think the only thing she cares about is the fulfillment of the prophecy. And if some people die because she was wrong? - that's just collateral. But I think the fact she was wrong upset her deeply - but that's more about her mistake than its deadly consequences.

9 hours ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

 

Both can be right at the same time. People forget that the WW have attacked from two directions last time. From the north of Westeros and the east side of Essos. There is a wall made of towers 1000 feet high guarding that part of their world, with a chain of mountains and a sea guarding the flanks.

 

If Planetos resembles a planet even loosely, there should be a zone between Essos and Westeros connecting both sides. Maybe Dany is taking forever to go to Westeros because she already is where she’s supposed to be. She will lead Essos in this crisis, while Jon&co will lead the fight in the north of Westeros. They’ll just meet in the middle when they push back against the WW and both reach the Lands of Always Winter.

 

Essos will believe that Dany was their savior, and Westeros will believe Jon was.

 

 

I've never heard this theory and I love it. If the books will go for it, then it justifies this ginormous, long-drawn and moving at a glacial pace plot - especially book-wise. If in the end it's all about Westeros, then all the time spent in Essos is a bit of a waste. Entire "training to be a Queen" plot is a bit pointless - she could learn as she conquered Westeros with her army of Unsullied and with possible Dornish support (thank Old Gods and the New, that show killed off Dornish plot for now - hopefully forever). This "training" isn't actually that helpful since Westeros has very different social dynamic than Essos - which Tyrion will find soon enough, I feel.

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14 hours ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

It's interesting that Mel explicitly called Jon TPtwP. I'd love to know how she came to that conclusion.

I don't know her criteria on identifying someone as TPtwP other than seeing a person with armies in the fire, but I am pretty sure that she decided on Jon because Lord of Light brought him back when she knew she had no power to do so.

 

8 hours ago, sj4iy said:

I do think that Jon is TPTWP, but I don't know if we've seen him fulfill the requirements yet.  Of course, requirements and titles mean nothing- action does.  And I would bet that after Jon retakes Winterfell, he's going to set his eyes on protecting the North from the incoming invasion.

Here is a question I have. Does show EVER mentions Azor Azai? I know in the books its used interchangeably but in the show, I only every heard about TPtwP. Also the show never mentioned the requirements other than some miracle / Mel's proclamation.

Don't know about the show, but in the books it looks likely that Azor Azai and TPtwP are two different people, and one of them is Dany and another is Jon, just not clear which. In the show, its the question between Jon and Dany who is real TPtwP

 

 

 

 

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