Cercei is walking into a trap ?

[TickTak7]

What does Cersei get, besides a bit of revenge, for going along with this plot? 

If it succeeds and Margaery is free, Cersei loses Tommen. 

If it succeeds and the Faith Militant is defeated, the Tyrell army will rule the capital, and Cersei loses the influence of the Kingsguard (through Jaime). 

If it succeeds, Olenna becomes more powerful than Cersei by virtue of having both Queen Margaery and the Tyrell army on her side. 

This feels like a really shortsighted plan, and a bit confusing - especially with it being Jaime that brings it up. 

There must be some sort of secondary play involved here that the show hasn't shown us yet, right?

[jandslegate]

10 minutes ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

Im actually unsure whats happening here and whats gonna happen here, but its hella interesting. The trails though, the Faith is still gonna do that, and name champions...

 

Without a doubt. I can't lie, I would love a family reunion. 

[Vastet]

I suspect Cersei is going to attempt to ensure Margery doesn't survive. It's a brilliant strategy if she can pull it off without being blamed. She weakens the Martel's and the faith simultaneously, and regains some control over Tommen.

[Florina Laufeyson]

^lel

Honestly though, i think the outcome of the trial(s) will really have a lot to do with everything. HS is gonna try to win at all costs and it may even look like he does. Up until someone totally throws the spanner in that works. In the books, Varys does it, so im wondering who does it in the show. Without the Young Griff, its hard to say whats going to happen....

unless the Sand Sneks are the ones to do it and we wont even see them again until then,,,,,

[jandslegate]

1 minute ago, TickTak7 said:

What does Cersei get, besides a bit of revenge, for going along with this plot? 

If it succeeds and Margaery is free, Cersei loses Tommen. 

If it succeeds and the Faith Militant is defeated, the Tyrell army will rule the capital, and Cersei loses the influence of the Kingsguard (through Jaime). 

If it succeeds, Olenna becomes more powerful than Cersei by virtue of having both Queen Margaery and the Tyrell army on her side. 

This feels like a really shortsighted plan, and a bit confusing - especially with it being Jaime that brings it up. 

There must be some sort of secondary play involved here that the show hasn't shown us yet, right?

 

That's Cersei and to a lesser extent show Jaime in a nut-shell, though, short sighted. Plus, if we give any credence to Maggie's prophecy, it doesn't matter what Cersei does as it all ends in ruin for her. 

[ummester]

I think this ultimately has to end in Tommen being imprisoned by the faith and dying because of Cercei's prophecy.

Also, logically, if there is Cleganbowl to resolve Cercie's case, Sandor has to die. If Sandor beats FrankenGregor, then Cersie will be guilty and out of the game by next season, which I don't think will happen. I think we will see FrankenGregor kill Sandor.

[jandslegate]

18 minutes ago, ummester said:

I think this ultimately has to end in Tommen being imprisoned by the faith and dying because of Cercei's prophecy.

Also, logically, if there is Cleganbowl to resolve Cercie's case, Sandor has to die. If Sandor beats FrankenGregor, then Cersie will be guilty and out of the game by next season, which I don't think will happen. I think we will see FrankenGregor kill Sandor.

 

I've always been so pumped on Cleganebowl happening that I really never thought about the outcome... I could also see Tommen becoming pious and joining the faith in some manner, even as far as abdicating. 

[Noveson]

17 minutes ago, jandslegate said:

I've always been so pumped on Cleganebowl happening that I really never thought about the outcome... I could also see Tommen becoming pious and joining the faith in some manner, even as far as abdicating. 

Wow me neither....never even thought about the outcome...I mean robert strong would have to win right?

Now way Tommen is going pious after getting a taste for Margery lol

[Ice Spider]

I think some of you need to give Cersei a little more credit. She has masterfully arranged to have both of her biggest enemies at the moment, set to begin battle with each other. Every death is a win for Cersie. In effect, she has taken a page out of Little fingers book ( let Stannis and the Bolton's fight it out, come in and clean up the mess). The HS underestimated Cersie this time, and it might bite him in the ass.

There is a rumor going around that the secret the HS told Tommen (who later told his mother) was off the Tyrell's 'involvement in the assassination of Joffery.

[Pies are coming]

41 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

I think some of you need to give Cersei a little more credit. She has masterfully arranged to have both of her biggest enemies at the moment, set to begin battle with each other. Every death is a win for Cersie. In effect, she has taken a page out of Little fingers book ( let Stannis and the Bolton's fight it out, come in and clean up the mess). The HS underestimated Cersie this time, and it might bite him in the ass.

There is a rumor going around that the secret the HS told Tommen (who later told his mother) was off the Tyrell's 'involvement in the assassination or Joffery.

And how would he know?

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-06/10/10/enhanced/webdr06/anigif_enhanced-4259-1402410964-28.gif

[Vastet]

If he does know, Margery would have had to tell Loras. It's clear that Loras broke. Margery thought she was taken to him to help break him, but I think the intent was actually to help break Margery.

[Ice Spider]

Maybe Loras knew all along, hard to say, but it is quite clear Loras broke and told the HS everything he knew.

[House Cambodia]

6 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

There is a rumor going around that the secret the HS told Tommen (who later told his mother) was off the Tyrell's 'involvement in the assassination of Joffrey.

Have to say, that is JUICY ......

[dbunting]

Yeah I read the same article that references a theory that the HS told Tommen about the Tyrells involvement in Joffreys death. To me that is a pretty well thought out theory and one I never considered, well done.

 So if Cersei was able to get the Tyrells to come in and fight the FM, both are weakened and one is destroyed, then she / Lannisters can take out the winner and be back on top again.

I could see Tommen dying during this whole thing though and that would tip Cersei over the edge of madness.

[House Cambodia]

^ Got a link to that article?

[Xcorpyo001]

Am I the only one having a déjà-vu feeling while watching the last Dany scene? In season 1 we have Jorah fighting a dothraki, a fire, burned khal, surviving the fires, dothraki bow to her.

Season 6 we have Jorah and Daario fighting some dothraki, a bigger fire, more burned khals, surviving the fire, even more dothraki kneel to her. /scene.

Remember a certain chain of events from season 1? Ned is Hand of the King and rules the council. Ned finds something incriminating about Cersei. She is in a precarious position. Ned comes to arrest her and the incest babies. He enters the Red Keep being secure in the knowledge that the Gold Cloaks are on his side. He is betrayed, his men killed, Cersei tells everybody that Ned wanted to seize the throne, Ned dies eventually, Sansa is kept as a prisoner.

Now we have season 6. Kevan and the Tyrels are Hand of the king and Council members. Some of Cersei’s secrets are exposed, and she is marginalized for a while. And then the plot starts to thicken. Cersei has a chat with Tommen, he reveals something the HS told him in confidence. Ha, like the guy would trust him with something important. Most likely use him somehow knowing he’s about to blab to the first person he sees. Buut, we don’t see what he said to Cersei.

Later, Cersei comes in the Council chambers, and tells Ollena that Marg is ready to do a walk of shame, although we have proof from the same episode that she is in no way broken by the HS and Unella. Even if Loras’s situation might make her reconsider, Tommen had his chat with the HS long before that scene.

So Ollena is backed in a corner. The Tyrells had an army outside the city walls, which they didn’t used for plot reasons. Let’t face it, the second the sparrows arrested the only Tyrell heir(at least in the show), they would have intervened the same day. Any sane man would know they are torturing him, and knowing the HS look on gay people, he shouldn’t escape that cell alive. But the show never mention that, only ‘the queen’ this, and the queen that. All they had to do was give Bronn 10 good men and he would have impregnated the Sept so hard, the HS would still have problems sitting down.

But alas, D&D have to find a way to give Cersei full control over KL, which is a little difficult to do, since show KL is way different than the one in the books. At this point, they could have come with something original, or just take a scene from season 1/book, and just change the players in it.

The Tyrell army enters KL and marches on the sept. They are led by a garishly armored Mace Tyrell. We saw a couple leaked pictures with the armor, and I think I saw a small clip with it in the trailers. He wears the armor with the fluffy blue feathers. Let’s just stop here for a moment. We had the HS monologue nr 5(?) in which he talks about being a cobbler. And rich people not caring how much time and work of a lower class man they are carrying on their back. Everybody in the crowd will think the same about Mace. He will probably be ripped apart by the crowd when the action starts.

Then the troops arrive at the Sept of Baelor, and then it will get interesting. From trailers we have Tyrell soldiers at the base of the stairs, sparrows surrounding the sept itself, a throng of people on every side of the Tyrell army, and Gold Cloaks in the area. Don’t know who’ll be the one starting the fight, but I think that the Tyrells are going to start fighting both the people in the streets and the sparrows, the Gold Cloaks will join the fight against the Tyrells, on Cersei’s orders.

Cersei might even have plants in the crowd to stir trouble. Once one guy is hit(like in the event with Joffrey), everybody will just start fighting the soldiers. Hell, I think even the Gold Cloaks can start the fight. One of their leaders might yell something like “The Tyrells have invaded the city, trying to kill the HS, sack the city and claim the IT for themselves. Kill the traitors and protect the people” or something like that. The people will join either to protect the HS, or themselves. And then we get to Cersei’s kill list.

First we have Lancel. He could still testify against Cersei in case of a trial, in view of the public. So the “I chose violence” line comes in, and bye bye Lancel. Since Kevan would not be too pleased with that, he has to go as well. And they might kill him even earlier,  to take control of the Goald Cloaks. He is Hand of the King after all.

Pycelle had a few run-ins with Cersei, so he is also on her naughty list, but I don’t know if he could survive this. He might try to warn people about what really happened, so I guess it would be safe to assume that he is kill at this point rather than later.

Mace Tyrell. As I said earlier, I think that the HS’ line about rich people not knowing how much their fancy clothes and armor cost to make. That garish armor will make him a target the second he enters the city, and he will be targeted by everybody in the crowd. Killed like the last High Septon.

Ollena. Her book version would see something like this a mile away, but things are as they are. RIP Lady Ollena Tyrell. And frack you, D&D, making Cersei appear as a bigger player than her. Whatever. Maybe she is captured as well and kept alive(or Loras might), a la Ned from season 1.

Loras. I think he is to important to be left alive, even in his broken state. He could be used by others to take control of the Reach, so RIP Loras. You will be remembered forever in the show as ‘that gay dude’.

Now it’s Margaery’s turn. And if the rehash is to be 100% accurate, Cersei will chose to take her prisoner(same as Sansa) instead of killing her and blame the HS for it. And that will be her mistake. Marg might have had 0 chances in fooling the HS, but Cersei on the other hand…Then again, I would have said the same about Ollena. Anyway, I think Marg can put out a better fight than a 13 years old Sansa. Poor Cersei.

Another thing that might point to Marg being under Cersei’s control is an older interview with Natalie Dormer, she says this: ““Cersei and Margaery are two women who in a different context might have been friends and great allies,” Dormer says. “But the religious revolution that’s happening is something that is much more dangerous and harder to navigate. I’m sure she rather be locked in the Red Keep with Cersei managing her – because she knows she can handle that.””. Then again, this might be her just remembering the good old days, although she wasn’t exactly locked up in there at the time.

As for the HS, I think Cersei will not go for the kill(well, septa Unella might have an unfortunate accident during the battle). After all, she thinks she has nothing to lose. If they try to accuse her of something, she will just use the get out of trial free card and have her nearly immortal Ser Gregor crush anyone that could be unfortunate enough to fight him.

And Jaime. Seeing Cersei kill her allies in a moment when they needed them the most against the armies of the bad poosey might change his mind on his feelings for her. Or he might be in on it, don’t know with his characterization of the last seasons. I guess he’ll do what the plot demands.

And the repercussions. The Reach forces are greatly reduced(just as the Iron Fleet is ready to move), the Tyrell-Lannister alliance is at an end(at a time the bad pooosey of Dorne is sharpening their spears), and the Lannister army marches towards the Riverlands with Jaime in charge of it. Cersei remains the only one in charge of a nearly defenseless KL. What could go wrong?

I wonder who will reach KL first? Ellaria or Dany? And how will that play out.

There are of course things that might be against this theory. For example, in the leaked photos from Girona, we see the Tyrell troops at the steps, surrounded by people, sparrows and Goald Cloack, bet there were no leaks about them fighting. It should be a big undertaking, I don’t think they could have pulled it off without some leaks.

On the other hand, the pieces are set in such a way that it’s almost impossible for something big not to happen. I guess we have to wait and see.

If the Tyrells have no more heirs, who will be the next leader of the Reach? After all, the show doesn’t tell us of other families in that area other than the Tarlys. Are you thinking what I’m thinking? In the right circumstances, a wildling baby could become one of the next Warden. Ahh, it would be priceless.  

[Dizzy Walker]

http://time.com/4337568/game-of-thrones-theory-high-sparrow-tommen-secret/

the big thing for me is 

Spoiler

the music that is playing in the background when Cersei is talking to Olenna is the Rains of Castamere 

Cersei is making a trap, but I don't understand, they need the Tryells for the food supply. Didn't they get the notification that winter is coming from Oldtown? so I am wondering if she just wants to get the Tyrells humbled and have Marg be in a similar position that Sansa had been after Ned was killed a traitor.

  But then if things go very wrong, this might also be the start of Marg being the beautiful Queen that takes it all away from Cersei prophecy.......

[Morgana Lannister]

On 5/17/2016 at 2:37 PM, House Cambodia said:

Yeh, I guess the ground sparrows must breed; it looks as if only the clergy need to be celibate, which is what I was thinking of. A Faith Militant king and queen - Cercei, what have you done girl???!!!

Wow, that could be an interesting... albeit scary proposition! lol

 

[VladimirDulud]

13 hours ago, Dizzy Walker said:

http://time.com/4337568/game-of-thrones-theory-high-sparrow-tommen-secret/

the big thing for me is 

  Hide contents

the music that is playing in the background when Cersei is talking to Olenna is the Rains of Castamere 

Cersei is making a trap, but I don't understand, they need the Tryells for the food supply. Didn't they get the notification that winter is coming from Oldtown? so I am wondering if she just wants to get the Tyrells humbled and have Marg be in a similar position that Sansa had been after Ned was killed a traitor.

  But then if things go very wrong, this might also be the start of Marg being the beautiful Queen that takes it all away from Cersei prophecy.......

they may have played the rains of castamere to recall season 3 when cersei threatened marge with that story about House Reyne. ..of course it recalls the red wedding as well.  so yes, red alert for betrayal. even though i have a feeling d&d are going to be straightforward about this coup and just have the two houses join to overthrow the sparrows.

we've seen in behind the scenes clips  marge wearing a very regal turtleneck and sheath, giving  septa fashion a royal make-over. so she's definitely coming out unscathed. she and tommen will pretend to have converted and be released into custody; it's Loras' fate that is uncertain at this point. He may be asked for a trial by combat by Ser Gregor and be his first victim, paving the way for the Hound to come in and steal the show for the second trial.

What i see less clearly is Cersei's arc in this season. It's about to get very interesting...

[House Cambodia]

^  At one time she was the smartest cookie in KL, but now I think both Olenna and the HS can run rings around her. What's gonna happen is her plotting and conniving is going to get Tommen killed, thus self-fulfilling Maggy's prophecy. 

 

Arc, meet woodworm