Little finger threatening Lord Royce

[Tianzi]

Robin is of weak health, he can also just trip and smash his on a rock on something. Littlefinger antagonizing the lords and hanging his power onto one mentally unstable child (remember how well went for the Lannisters thinking they're in a complete control of Joffrey...) is stupid. Let's just add his books philosophy, how one should always plot discreetly and not to link oneself with any shit that comes down... Yeah, he's pretty much the antithesis of himself here. He acts like Cersei framing Margaery in the books.

But of course, he is not paying for that anytime soon, because whoever created this scene clearly thinks that it's some peak of plotting genius and there is no way this master plan bites him in the ass. Well, unless Sansa waves some candies on Sweetrobin and convinces him to switch sides.

5 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

That's the silly part though - why would they be powerless? Robin is still a clearly very impressionable child who can't rule in his own right. The person raising him and acting as his regent (in this case Royce) should be the one in control. The Vale lords don't have to do what Robin says unless they want to and this is Royce's own Castle and his own men. Even if he outright killed LF there and then, what is Robin going to do? Throw a tantrum?

Yep, and I really doubt the Crown lifts a little finger to help Petyr in this scenario.

 

[TickTak7]

2 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

That's the silly part though - why would they be powerless? Robin is still a clearly very impressionable child who can't rule in his own right. The person raising him and acting as his regent (in this case Royce) should be the one in control. The Vale lords don't have to do what Robin says unless they want to and this is Royce's own Castle and his own men. Even if he outright killed LF there and then, what is Robin going to do? Throw a tantrum?

The person raising him should be in control?

Agreed. That's why we see Royce looking so visibly threatened when LF appears. he knows he has no control of him around LF.

How do you think it would end for someone who killed the uncle of the Lord of the Vale? Not very well, is my guess - Robin seems like he wants any excuse to play with his Moon Door.

[Tianzi]

LF killed Robin's mother and got away with it.

If the lords wanted to get rid of Petyr, any of them could very easily arrange it, and the not very bright Sweetrobin would never know who was behind it (and possible he would get a very convenient scapegoat to send out the Moon Door).

[Hol Horse]

Littlefinger is like Kai Leng; he lowers the IQ of everyone around him, thus making himself look intelligent by comparison. This allows him to 'manipulate' people and get them to do things that are truly facepalm-worthy, thereby winning. It's really a marvelous ability. Also helps to have the young Lord Derparryn on your side to back your nonsense.

[Prince of the North]

12 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

LF killed Robin's mother and got away with it.

If the lords wanted to get rid of Petyr, any of them could very easily arrange it, and the not very bright Sweetrobin would never know who was behind it (and possible he would get a very convenient scapegoat to send out the Moon Door).

Exactly!  The only reason LF has any power in the Vale is because he controls Sweetrobin.  So, what does he do?  He gives control of Sweetrobin to the Royces who... then do nothing with it.  Let's face it.  The only way this situation works out at all on the show is for the Royces to be incomprehensibly, unrealistically, illogically stupid.

[Maid So Fair]

18 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

The person raising him should be in control?

Agreed. That's why we see Royce looking so visibly threatened when LF appears. he knows he has no control of him around LF.

How do you think it would end for someone who killed the uncle of the Lord of the Vale? Not very well, is my guess - Robin seems like he wants any excuse to play with his Moon Door.

But Royce is the person raising him - LF hasn't been in the Vale for months. Why should he be threatened by LF? Why even let LF see SR? It went even in a public setting where Royce might need to make some allowance for SR's future authority.

 

[Ice Spider]

For Starters, LF was appointed Lord of the Vale by the Lannisters, as such any attack on him still bears the brunt of KL. It's not quite as simple as LR offing LF and being done with it, there would be repercussions. Granted KL is a mess, and it's quite possible that Lord Royce and the Vale could handle an invasion by KL, but I don't think it's a can of worms the Lords of the Vale want to open, after all, they did remain neutral in Rob Starks assault on KL.

And yes, Sansa could expose little finger, but has anyone ever heard of the M.A.D. doctrine? Once she does that LF has nothing to lose than to admit to tossing Lysa out the moon door, and Sansa seen it all and covered it up. That gets them both killed.

[Maid So Fair]

1 hour ago, Ice Spider said:

For Starters, LF was appointed Lord of the Vale by the Lannisters, as such any attack on him still bears the brunt of KL. It's not quite as simple as LR offing LF and being done with it, there would be repercussions. Granted KL is a mess, and it's quite possible that Lord Royce and the Vale could handle an invasion by KL, but I don't think it's a can of worms the Lords of the Vale want to open, after all, they did remain neutral in Rob Starks assault on KL.

And yes, Sansa could expose little finger, but has anyone ever heard of the M.A.D. doctrine? Once she does that LF has nothing to lose than to admit to tossing Lysa out the moon door, and Sansa seen it all and covered it up. That gets them both killed.

Sure, because the Lannisters have nothing better to do than attack the Vale because someone got pissed off with a man pretty much every single member of their family contemplated killing off at some point. This while Cersei was forced to walk naked through the streets, Tommens wife is in prison and Dorne offed Myrcella. LF, totally top priority. LF's corpse, even more so.

And of course, the Vale lords unanimously decided to help hide Sansa, who is wanted by the KL for regicide. So ething tells me they're not especially concerned with the Lannisters' opinion. They only stayed out of the war because of Lysa, otherwise they were ready to join Robb - let's not forget the war started when the Lannisters (allegedly) murdered Jon Arryn. 

[Tianzi]

Nobody from KL is moving a finger to help LF, besides the Lords need to kill him discreetly not to tick off Robin anyway. Or find a good excuse. Aren't there several bloodthirsty mountain clans for example?

Come on, it's not so difficult to assasinate someone, as numerous characters have proven, and LF has no friends, no powerful family and no martial prowess to speak of. He used to get by his wit and appearing harmless, and now he revealed his true nature to the lords. He should be deader than disco, hadn't the rest of the players around him become inept to ease him through the plot.

[TickTak7]

3 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

But Royce is the person raising him - LF hasn't been in the Vale for months. Why should he be threatened by LF? Why even let LF see SR? It went even in a public setting where Royce might need to make some allowance for SR's future authority.

 

Why should he be threatened by LF? 

Because it literally took LF thirty seconds, despite being gone for (presumably) several months, to convince Robin to consider throwing Royce through the moon door. 

That's why. 

Because Royce knows that Robin values LF, and is controlled by him. 

[Ice Spider]

1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

Sure, because the Lannisters have nothing better to do than attack the Vale because someone got pissed off with a man pretty much every single member of their family contemplated killing off at some point. This while Cersei was forced to walk naked through the streets, Tommens wife is in prison and Dorne offed Myrcella. LF, totally top priority. LF's corpse, even more so.

And of course, the Vale lords unanimously decided to help hide Sansa, who is wanted by the KL for regicide. So ething tells me they're not especially concerned with the Lannisters' opinion. They only stayed out of the war because of Lysa, otherwise they were ready to join Robb - let's not forget the war started when the Lannisters (allegedly) murdered Jon Arryn. 

Who appointed LF Lord Protector of the Vale? Answer please........

[Maid So Fair]

9 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Why should he be threatened by LF? 

Because it literally took LF thirty seconds, despite being gone for (presumably) several months, to convince Robin to consider throwing Royce through the moon door. 

That's why. 

Because Royce knows that Robin values LF, and is controlled by him. 

And in my previous post I've explained that it makes no sense or the Vale lords to follow the whims of a ickly and mentally disturbed child, especially without question. 

4 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

Who appointed LF Lord Protector of the Vale? Answer please........

Cersei? He became one automatically through his marriage to Lysa? I'm honestly not sure - what is your point please?

[joaozinm]

Oh god, i need winds of winter quickly...

 

I am starting to get real pissed off.

[TickTak7]

15 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

And in my previous post I've explained that it makes no sense or the Vale lords to follow the whims of a ickly and mentally disturbed child, especially without question. 

Cersei? He became one automatically through his marriage to Lysa? I'm honestly not sure - what is your point please?

Of course it makes sense.

Disobey and he throws you through the Moon Door the first chance he gets. 

Why doesn't that make sense lol?

[Maid So Fair]

4 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Of course it makes sense.

Disobey and he throws you through the Moon Door the first chance he gets. 

Why doesn't that make sense lol?

You do realise that the Eyrie, Moon Door included, is now closed for the winter? The came down at the end of S4.

It's obvious that Robin is capricious, unpredictable and easily influenced. Disobey and he might want to throw you out of the Moon Door right now - or forget the whole incident 10 min later. He's also a child and a sick child at that that might never rule. The lords of the Vale in the books are well aware of this. You would have to be blind, deaf and mad to take anything Robin says without a huge grain of salt, let alone rush to obey him - especially if his orders include executing your liege on the spot. Look at KL - everybody completely disregards Tommen, despite him being THE KING, older, smarter and not obviously unhiged unlike SR. 

[TickTak7]

Just now, Maid So Fair said:

You do realise that the Eyrie, Moon Door included, is now closed for the winter? The came down at the end of S4.

It's obvious that Robin is capricious, unpredictable and easily influenced. Disobey and he might want to throw you out of the Moon Door right now - or forget the whole incident 10 min later. He's also a child and a sick child at that that might never rule. The lords of the Vale in the books are well aware of this. You would have to be blind, deaf and mad to take anything Robin says without a huge grain of salt, let alone rush to obey him - especially if his orders include executing your liege on the spot. Look at KL - everybody completely disregards Tommen, despite him being THE KING, older, smarter and not obviously unhiged unlike SR. 

That's because Tommen doesn't have the same capricious, unpredictable side that Robin has. 

Everyone disregards Tommen because he's completely useless. 

As far as we know, LF has probably influenced Robin into mistrusting all the other lords and only trusting LF. It would be exactly like something he would be able to pull off. 

 

[Valetudo]

4 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Of course it makes sense.

Disobey and he throws you through the Moon Door the first chance he gets. 

Why doesn't that make sense lol?

Because he's a small child who has no power of it's own.

Following your logic, Tyrion should be dead right now, because  Robin ordered to throw him through the Moon Door too.

His regent is who has the power. Right now, if the show had any kind of logic, the regent is Royce. He's the one fostering Robin, and he is at home surrounded by his guards. LF only had some kind of power in the Vale when he was the one fostering Robin. He lost that power when he gave him up.

 

[TickTak7]

1 minute ago, Valetudo said:

Because he's a small child who has no power of it's own.

Following your logic, Tyrion should be dead right now, because  Robin ordered to throw him through the Moon Door too.

His regent is who has the power. Right now, if the show had any kind of logic, the regent is Royce. He's the one fostering Robin, and he is at home surrounded by his guards. LF only had some kind of power in the Vale when he was the one fostering Robin. He lost that power when he gave him up.

 

Well we know none of that is true, because we saw Robin last episode being completely wrapped under the finger of LF. 

I think it's fine. There's no massive leap in logic that needs to be done in order to understand how that's working right now. 

[Valetudo]

2 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Everyone disregards Tommen because he's completely useless.

And Robin is not useless???  

 

Just now, TickTak7 said:

Well we know none of that is true, because we saw Robin last episode being completely wrapped under the finger of LF. 

I think it's fine. There's no massive leap in logic that needs to be done in order to understand how that's working right now. 

So if next episode we see that LF is in reality an alien cyborg from outer space, it would be logic because it would be in the episode!

 Seems logic.

[tormund's beard]

a feudal lord can enforce rule only if its not opposed by his bannermen, house royce has armies the other houses of the vale also have armies. they can revolt house royce (with enough support of the other noble houses of the vale) could overthrow house arryn in a blink and the iron thorne would not give a fuck as long as they swore fealty to king tommen. cersei, kevan, olenna the people with real power give two shits about LF he is alive  because he is of use to them.

No one on the vale cares about LF they maybe feel some loyalty to house arryn, but in any case robin is still a child he can't rule on his own and in this case royce who is the one fostering the future ruler of the vale is the one who has the most power.

this of course isn't true in the show because in the show they don't give two fucks about logic if logic is contrary to what they want to do.

and granted i won't argue that sometimes logic gets in the way of telling a good story, but in this case the lack of logic just harms the story. LF should be doing what he has always done, look harmless while working in the shadows and not flexing muscles he doesn't have.