Bride of Fire: The Corpse with Bright Eyes is Daario Naharis

[Ebrose]

40 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

What I argued in the rest of the post, which you omitted, was that Daario is the only character with bright eyes. 

They are described that way by Daenerys, for whom the vision is relevant. 

Victarion's eyes are described only as sharp. You might imagine they glow with fire, but the author never described them that way. 

On the other hand, any number of characters can be associated with ships and death. Recall the scene in Feast where Sam left Aemon, who was smiling, above decks in the rain, which felt like tears, invoking sadness. Of course, Aemon caught the chill that killed him. And maesters are associated with the color gray. 

I am starting to suspect that there is a mainstream theory out there that claims that "grey smile" aka "bright eyes" is Victarion, and you think you are defending against a supporter of such theory. I promise I am not.

I have recently joined the forums, and I really hadn't considered the HoTU prophecies since I finished the books, nor I had read theories about their possible meanings. After reading your OP the first person that came to my mind was Victarion as it matched several of the characteristics of my mental picture of him. As you can see, for me (and I suspect for some other people as well), the key element was not the bright eyes.

I'm open to any interpretation. Daario could also match, and I don't have any specific preference among them, as I find them equally disgusting as characters. However, you argue that Daario is the most likely candidate because is the only one being described literally as having bright eyes, and leave all the rest of hints in the phrase for future speculation. Then I don't understand why you discard other possibilities that already match a few of the descriptions based on a single "loose end" which can also be speculated, right? 

Daario already has the bright eyes and misses the rest. Why not allow us to speculate how others may get "bright eyes" even if they don't have them now?

[Lost Melnibonean]

28 minutes ago, Ebrose said:

I am starting to suspect that there is a mainstream theory out there that claims that "grey smile" aka "bright eyes" is Victarion, and you think you are defending against a supporter of such theory. I promise I am not.

I have recently joined the forums, and I really hadn't considered the HoTU prophecies since I finished the books, nor I had read theories about their possible meanings. After reading your OP the first person that came to my mind was Victarion as it matched several of the characteristics of my mental picture of him. As you can see, for me (and I suspect for some other people as well), the key element was not the bright eyes.

I'm open to any interpretation. Daario could also match, and I don't have any specific preference among them, as I find them equally disgusting as characters. However, you argue that Daario is the most likely candidate because is the only one being described literally as having bright eyes, and leave all the rest of hints in the phrase for future speculation. Then I don't understand why you discard other possibilities that already match a few of the descriptions based on a single "loose end" which can also be speculated, right? 

Daario already has the bright eyes and misses the rest. Why not allow us to speculate how others may get "bright eyes" even if they don't have them now?

Notwithstanding your noobness, you have raised good arguments in favor of Victarion. I appreciate the argument, and the way you have made it, since any theory needs to be vetted. 

Victarion is one of the usual suspects. But there is little to no consensus. Euron, Aemon, Tyrion, Hizdahr, and Jon Connington are all often suggested. I don't recall ever seeing Daario. 

As I said, the only character with "bright" eyes (eyes that are bright in and of themselves rather than in a particular moment) is Daario. If Daario dies on a boat, or before Daenerys departs for Westeros and Daenerys thinks a out him on a boat, the elements could be fulfilled, and that outcome is not farfetched. 

And, as suggested in the OP, Daario fits very well into the overall structure of the bride of fire visions. 

[Eden-Mackenzie]

23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

2. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly

Doesn't Dany admit at one point that Daario is a completely unacceptable consort? With 1 and 3 describing Drogo and Jon, it seems like 2 should also describe a likely match, and not just Dany's lust crush. Victarion is not the only Greyjoy suitor Dany has; after all, Euron sent Victarion to Essos to fetch him his bride. 

From Arya's first encounter with the Ghost of High Heart:

I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. (ASOS 22)

The day of Balon Greyjoy's death, Euron Crow's Eye returns from exile. He is often described as smiling, as opposed to his dour younger brother, and his lips are blue from drinking Shade of the Evening. And then there are is eyes, thr one that he keeps hidden behind an eye patch, and the other, which is referred to as his smiling eye and has been described as "blue as a summer sky", "glittering", "shining", and "bright". 

Also, I believe Euron's Silence is the only ship whose prow and figurehead get more than a passing mention in the books, as they are described at least twice by Victarion in almost identical terms. His figurehead has no mouth so cannot smile, but her eyes are mother of pearl, which could also be described as "bright".

Euron Greyjoy is Dany's second suitor' the corpse with the bright eyes, not Victarion, and not Daario.

 

 

 

Except Euron is already dead and has been replaced by a Faceless Man, because the Faceless Men are up to something regarding the dragons.

[Lost Melnibonean]

23 minutes ago, Eden-Mackenzie said:

Doesn't Dany admit at one point that Daario is a completely unacceptable consort? With 1 and 3 describing Drogo and Jon, it seems like 2 should also describe a likely match, and not just Dany's lust crush. Victarion is not the only Greyjoy suitor Dany has; after all, Euron sent Victarion to Essos to fetch him his bride. 

From Arya's first encounter with the Ghost of High Heart:

I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. (ASOS 22)

The day of Balon Greyjoy's death, Euron Crow's Eye returns from exile. He is often described as smiling, as opposed to his dour younger brother, and his lips are blue from drinking Shade of the Evening. And then there are is eyes, thr one that he keeps hidden behind an eye patch, and the other, which is referred to as his smiling eye and has been described as "blue as a summer sky", "glittering", "shining", and "bright". 

Also, I believe Euron's Silence is the only ship whose prow and figurehead get more than a passing mention in the books, as they are described at least twice by Victarion in almost identical terms. His figurehead has no mouth so cannot smile, but her eyes are mother of pearl, which could also be described as "bright".

Euron Greyjoy is Dany's second suitor' the corpse with the bright eyes, not Victarion, and not Daario.

 

 

 

Except Euron is already dead and has been replaced by a Faceless Man, because the Faceless Men are up to something regarding the dragons.

If marriage is the element and not love, how can you exclude Hizdahr? If marriage and love are both elements, doesn't Daenerys need to fall in love with Euron for him to fulfill the elements of the vision? 

[Eden-Mackenzie]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If marriage is the element and not love, how can you exclude Hizdahr? If marriage and love are both elements, doesn't Daenerys need to fall in love with Euron for him to fulfill the elements of the vision? 

Maybe that's why the grey-lipped smile is sad...? Or, maybe the prophecy only concerns Westerosi marriages, since that is Dany's true calling/purpose/destiny? Yes, Drogo was not Weserosi, but their marriage was intended to be the impetus for the Targaryen restoration in Westeros, first for Viserys and then for Dany and Rhaego, or from Illyrio's POV, Aegon. Euron wants the Iron Throne as well, he told Victarion as much, so a wedding between Dany and Euron would have the goal of seating them (him) on the Iron Throne, while a wedding with Vicatrion does nothing but ensure conflict with Euron. Dany and Jon would be a return to the Targaryen Way, assuming of course R+L=J and Aegon is fAegon and Dany and Jon live (un-die?) to the end and actually claim the throne in the names of their fathers. Whereas Hizdahr is just about control of Meereen, and Meereen does not matter. 

[Damsel in Distress]

On 5/18/2016 at 1:17 PM, Ebrose said:

Ship, dead, sad... Those things kind of remind me of Victarion. And I promise you there are few things I would like less in this series than see Dany fall in love with Victarion. 

ETA: apart from the "grey smile"' " Greyjoy" crackpot connection...

I don't think she will.  But Vicky is already convinced himself and talked himself into falling in love with Dany.

[norwaywolf123]

On 18.5.2016 at 6:02 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Bride of Fire

1. Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

2. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

3. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

The first vision clearly alludes to Daenerys Targaryen’s first night with Khal Drogo. Since Daenerys wed Drogo, and came to love him, we should assume that the other two persons represented in the other two respective visions must be wed to and loved by Daenerys. On the other hand, she has wed Hizdahr, but she does not love him, and she loves Daario Naharis, but she has not wed him, and the narrative strongly suggests that she will not wed him. So, for either of these two characters to fit, we must eliminate the other, and eliminate either the marriage element or the love element. If we disregard marriage and retain love as the required element, Daario fits at least part of the description. . .

Daenerys V, Storm 57

If this vision does represent Daario, then it obviously foreshadows his death. 

The third vision surely represents Jon Snow, and its inclusion under bride of fire, assuming that the second vision represents Daario, foreshadows that Daenerys will fall in love with Jon.

As to whether there will be sufficient time for Daenerys to meet and to fall in love with Jon, keep in mind that The George is planning on giving us at least another 2,000 pages. Daenerys was able to meet Drogo in Pentos and Daario in Slaver's Bay, and to fall in love with both of them in less than 4,000 pages. 

ETA

Victarion is associated with ships and death, but how do “grey lips smiling sadly” refer to the Iron Captain? And his eyes are never described as “bright,” are they?

To the best of my search, other than Daario Naharis, there are six characters whose eyes are described as bright. Rickon’s eyes are bright when he begs for a sweet. Edmure’s eyes are too bright after battle. Joffrey’s eyes are bright with cruel amusement. Petyr’s eyes are bright with mocking. Sandor and Myrcella’s eyes are bright with fever.

But unlike Daario’s eyes, which are described as bright in and of themselves, the eyes of all of those characters are described as having bright eyes because of some momentary reason.

Alliser, Rattleshirt and

  Reveal hidden contents

Tumco Lho

are described as having “shiny” eyes, and Quaithe’s eyes are “wet,” but those descriptions are distinguishable, and none of those characters appear to fit in the vision. 

Not only does Daenerys think of Daario's eyes as bright, his eyes are the feature she identifies with him most. 

So, the bright eyes are the key identifier, not the prow of the ship or the grey lips. 

ETA II

The eyes of Ramsay and Moqorro are described as shiny, but tense used suggest they were only shining in the moment.  

I think Aurane Waters are more likely as a husband/love intrest od Dany. He is very similar to Daemon the Rogue Price i think.

- Both went to the Stepstones, and crowned themselved there "Daemon as the king of the Steptones and the Narrow sea, and Aurane as the Lord of Tides"

[gregg22]

I think it's worth pointing out that not everything in these visions will happen.  There is also an argument to be made that they also follow a pattern. For instance, under "Daughter of Death" we see:

1. Viserys burned to death by molten gold.

2. Rhaego burning a city.

3. Rhaegar's death on the Trident.

 

So the first and last are confirmed to have happened, and we can also confirm the 2nd vision will never happen.

Our grey lipped, bright-eyed mystery man obviously refers to someone, but it may never come to pass.

[Lost Melnibonean]

21 minutes ago, gregg22 said:

I think it's worth pointing out that not everything in these visions will happen.  There is also an argument to be made that they also follow a pattern. For instance, under "Daughter of Death" we see:

1. Viserys burned to death by molten gold.

2. Rhaego burning a city.

3. Rhaegar's death on the Trident.

 

So the first and last are confirmed to have happened, and we can also confirm the 2nd vision will never happen.

Our grey lipped, bright-eyed mystery man obviously refers to someone, but it may never come to pass.

I disagree. The daughter of death visions were designed to show her dead family, her brothers and her son, who had already died. Unlike the visions of her brothers's deaths, the vision of her son's death was depicted by his future promise. The way The George described it made it very easy to tell what she was seeing. Clearly, the George wanted us to understand these three visions since they were so simple. He could have given us visions of the future promises of Rhaegar and Viserys too, but there was a bit of art here with the men dying and the stillborn child living in the visions. The promise of Rhaego was futile and sad (but perhaps not so sad for the Lamb Men), but the vision was not a prophecy; rather, it was a vision alluding to Rhaego's stillbirth. 

[gregg22]

3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I disagree. The daughter of death visions were designed to show her dead family, her brothers and her son, who had already died. Unlike the visions of her brothers's deaths, the vision of her son's death was depicted by his future promise. The way The George described it made it very easy to tell what she was seeing. Clearly, the George wanted us to understand these three visions since they were so simple. He could have given us visions of the future promises of Rhaegar and Viserys too, but there was a bit of art here with the men dying and the stillborn child living in the visions. The promise of Rhaego was futile and sad (but perhaps not so sad for the Lamb Men), but the vision was not a prophecy; rather, it was a vision alluding to Rhaego's stillbirth. 

I have to disagree as well. Why depict her brothers actual deaths and not Rhaego's?

I see it as a warning about profecies. Rhaego was profecized to be the stallion that mounts the world, but that will never happen.

Rhaegar once thought he was TPTWP, but no.

[Lost Melnibonean]

42 minutes ago, gregg22 said:

I have to disagree as well. Why depict her brothers actual deaths and not Rhaego's?

I see it as a warning about profecies. Rhaego was profecized to be the stallion that mounts the world, but that will never happen.

Rhaegar once thought he was TPTWP, but no.

Those examples are distinguishable. Both prophecies  can still come true, but the interpreter got each slightly wrong. Daenerys's "son" could the stallion that mounts the world since she is the mother of dragons. Rhaegar came to realize that his son would be the prince that was promised, but it won't  be the mummer's dragon; it will be the special snowflake. 

[gregg22]

23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Those examples are distinguishable. Both prophecies  can still come true, but the interpreter got each slightly wrong. Daenerys's "son" could the stallion that mounts the world since she is the mother of dragons. Rhaegar came to realize that his son would be the prince that was promised, but it won't  be the mummer's dragon; it will be the special snowflake. 

"The one-eyed crone peered at Dany. "What shall he be called, the stallion who mounts the world?"

She stood to answer. "He shall be called Rhaego," she said, using the words that Jhiqui had taught her."

It seems pretty clear they were talking about the the baby in her belly.

"Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . ."

I'd say it's pretty unlikely that Dany has another half Dothraki child. The fact remains, she saw two events exactly as they happened, but the Rhaego vision can never happen.

It just seems like a hint to me not to trust every vision 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

On 18/5/2016 at 11:53 AM, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

Dany is married to "fire" in a methaphorical way.

Yes, she's fire, just like the people who is mentioned in the same verse:

Dany

Aemon

Jon.

There are no more official Targaryens.

This is what the prophecy is saying: "look, you, your great-great-great uncle and your nephew. Tied to fire".

[norwaywolf123]

9 hours ago, gregg22 said:

"The one-eyed crone peered at Dany. "What shall he be called, the stallion who mounts the world?"

She stood to answer. "He shall be called Rhaego," she said, using the words that Jhiqui had taught her."

It seems pretty clear they were talking about the the baby in her belly.

"Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . ."

I'd say it's pretty unlikely that Dany has another half Dothraki child. The fact remains, she saw two events exactly as they happened, but the Rhaego vision can never happen.

It just seems like a hint to me not to trust every vision 

Bittersteals sigil had a fiery stallion. Coincidence?

Targaryen+Blackfyre/Bittersteal?

[Lost Melnibonean]

10 hours ago, gregg22 said:

"The one-eyed crone peered at Dany. "What shall he be called, the stallion who mounts the world?"

She stood to answer. "He shall be called Rhaego," she said, using the words that Jhiqui had taught her."

It seems pretty clear they were talking about the the baby in her belly.

"Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . ."

I'd say it's pretty unlikely that Dany has another half Dothraki child. The fact remains, she saw two events exactly as they happened, but the Rhaego vision can never happen.

It just seems like a hint to me not to trust every vision 

I'm suggesting that perhaps Daenerys's "son" Drogon is the Stallion that mounts the world. The crones guessed the wrong baby. So, she doesn't need another baby. The prophecy will be fulfilled with the black shadow, a flaming sword over the world. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Well poo...

Spoiler

the new Aeon chapter really puts a dent in this theory. Still, why would Aeron's eye be thought of as bright? 

For that reason, I think my theory survives. For now. 

[The Fattest Leech]

23 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well poo...

  Hide contents

the new Aeon chapter really puts a dent in this theory. Still, why would Aeron's eye be thought of as bright? 

For that reason, I think my theory survives. For now. 

Do you think there may be a chance that Euron is using the oily black stone in some malevolent way that would cause Aeron's eyes to be as such?

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Do you think there may be a chance that Euron is using the oily black stone in some malevolent way that would cause Aeron's eyes to be as such?

I haven't seen him use any oily black stone yet. Did I miss something? 

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I haven't seen him use any oily black stone yet. Did I miss something? 

No... just curious because it was present on the II in the Seastone chair and we have heard about it in other places and I was wondering if it was "time" for it to start coming in to action in the series?

Just a speculative thought.

And it would be like Euron to destroy the chair as he has promised it to Vic when (if) Euron gets the Iron Throne. All of Euron's gifts are poisoned.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

No... just curious because it was present on the II in the Seastone chair and we have heard about it in other places and I was wondering if it was "time" for it to start coming in to action in the series?

Just a speculative thought.

I have no doubt that it will play an important role in the War for the Dawn, but I really don't get it yet.