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Star Trek: Beyond the 1st Trailer


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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

 

The good guys free the crew with a handful of people yet the weirdo ships of Evil Federation Guy seem to be all manned (if those the good guys high-jack repeatedly are any indication). If that's the case then Evil Federation Guy must have either millions or at least hundreds of thousands of pilots for his weirdo fleet. Where the hell are all those people when the good guys free the crew?

Where did they come from.. just in general.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

The good guys free the crew with a handful of people yet the weirdo ships of Evil Federation Guy seem to be all manned (if those the good guys high-jack repeatedly are any indication). If that's the case then Evil Federation Guy must have either millions or at least hundreds of thousands of pilots for his weirdo fleet. Where the hell are all those people when the good guys free the crew?

 

26 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Where did they come from.. just in general.

The pilots of the Swarm were not people, they were drones, hence they were all with helmets, which were probably their heads. This is mentioned in Edison's visual log I believe. He also mentions that only 3 members of the Franklin survived - him, his right hand man, and probably the woman who lured the Enterprise there.

And some of the drones were there shooting at Kirk and the rest when they rescued the crew. There was that whole thing with the motorcycle releasing that quick desublimation gas where that was to stop the guards from shooting at them. But I'm guessing there is a limited number of drones, and most were needed for the swarm. 

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Just now, Corvinus said:

The pilots of the Swarm were not people, they were drones, hence they were all with helmets, which were probably their heads. This is mentioned in Edison's visual log I believe. He also mentions that only 3 members of the Franklin survived - him, his right hand man, and probably the woman who lured the Enterprise there.

And some of the drones were there shooting at Kirk and the rest when they rescued the crew. There was that whole thing with the motorcycle releasing that quick desublimation gas where that was to stop the guards from shooting at them. But I'm guessing there is a limited number of drones, and most were needed for the swarm. 

I remember the vlog. But I thought those drones were actually those weirdo ships, not the goons manning them. After all, the weirdo ships seem to have been based on mining equipment (hell, where did we see that the last time?). Come on, plots who are drones who are still controlled by some sort of swarm intelligence which can be disrupted using music? Why not just use robot ships? Surely the brains of those drones could have been built directly into those drone ships, right?

It is pretty obvious that Evil Federation Guy experimented with the stuff he found eventually converting mining equipment into an attack armada. However, no sane person would have done it the way he did in the movie.

That is both overkill and stupidity in one.

Besides, only a stupid movie villain would put hundreds of thousands or millions of his drones into the ships if he actually needed them in the end to defeat the enemy. I mean, Evil Guy flies away in the end and leaves his other guy alone to deal with the good guys. Surely he could have left, say, ten thousand of his ships and drones down there to deal with the good guys.

It just doesn't make any sense.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I remember the vlog. But I thought those drones were actually those weirdo ships, not the goons manning them. After all, the weirdo ships seem to have been based on mining equipment (hell, where did we see that the last time?). Come on, plots who are drones who are still controlled by some sort of swarm intelligence which can be disrupted using music? Why not just use robot ships? Surely the brains of those drones could have been built directly into those drone ships, right?

It is pretty obvious that Evil Federation Guy experimented with the stuff he found eventually converting mining equipment into an attack armada. However, no sane person would have done it the way he did in the movie.

That is both overkill and stupidity in one.

Besides, only a stupid movie villain would put hundreds of thousands or millions of his drones into the ships if he actually needed them in the end to defeat the enemy. I mean, Evil Guy flies away in the end and leaves his other guy alone to deal with the good guys. Surely he could have left, say, ten thousand of his ships and drones down there to deal with the good guys.

It just doesn't make any sense.

You make good points, but one thing I have to say, he was not sane.

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3 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

You make good points, but one thing I have to say, he was not sane.

Granted, and another boring plot device used in this movie. I thought I already covered that. However, I think only his motivation was insane, not the means he used to accomplish his goals. Going with robot drones when he could have just have automatic drone ships doesn't make any sense.

The idea we get is that the computer swarm intelligence did the thinking for the pilots, right? I mean, the drone goons would never have been quick enough to pilot the ships. Thus them being on board served no purpose at all. It should have been robot ships.

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40 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Granted, and another boring plot device used in this movie. I thought I already covered that. However, I think only his motivation was insane, not the means he used to accomplish his goals. Going with robot drones when he could have just have automatic drone ships doesn't make any sense.

The idea we get is that the computer swarm intelligence did the thinking for the pilots, right? I mean, the drone goons would never have been quick enough to pilot the ships. Thus them being on board served no purpose at all. It should have been robot ships.

Yes, but they also served to board enemy ships/stations. So you do need goons on them, whether they pilot them or not.

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The Franklin can be explained as the firat warp 4 ship, but maybe it had issues and was quickly superceded by the warp 5 Enterprise.  At that time humans were mostly staying home anyway.

 

Idria char was a MACO (marine) and fought Xindi (maybe even as an Enterprise Maco, and later Romulans.

War breaks out with Romulans, so Earth recommisons Franklin, and assigns it an NX number (Enterprise was NX1, Columbia NX2).   

Federation formed, Macos disbanded, Idria made captain of Franklin.  Franklin vanishes.

 

 

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Regarding the Franklin, I agree with @Lord Varys about how continuity was shattered. And the reason why is because the entire universe seemed to have been screwed as the writers felt like it for each of the new movies, and quite possibly independent of each other. For example, in the 2009 film, after the Enterprise left Vulcan, I distinctly heard Spock order the ship to move at warp factor 3. Hmm, an enemy ship just destroyed Vulcan, and it's on the way to Earth, and you set the ship at warp 3?

Not to mention the way transporters now work.

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1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

The Franklin can be explained as the firat warp 4 ship, but maybe it had issues and was quickly superceded by the warp 5 Enterprise.  At that time humans were mostly staying home anyway.

Idria char was a MACO (marine) and fought Xindi (maybe even as an Enterprise Maco, and later Romulans.

War breaks out with Romulans, so Earth recommisons Franklin, and assigns it an NX number (Enterprise was NX1, Columbia NX2).   

Federation formed, Macos disbanded, Idria made captain of Franklin.  Franklin vanishes.

That doesn't make any sense. Evil Guy was first a MACO and then only became a Starfleet captain after the Federation (and Starfleet, according to the nonsense talk in the movie) was founded in the wake of the Xindi crisis and the subsequent Romulan War.

Evil Guy did not want to be a Starfleet captain commanding some spaceship. He was a soldier. Hence he wouldn't have had a ship prior to Archer and nobody would have given him the first Warp 4 starship after the Romulan War. Because, you know, they would have had Warp 5 ships like the Enterprise at that point or perhaps even Warp 6 ships if the Romulan War came with some technological advancements.

It cannot be more obvious than that that the morons writing those scripts and making those movies don't care about their franchise at all.

I mean, I'm not exactly the greatest expert on Star Trek alive. I just watched some of the shows. And even I pick that up because the whole warp drive stuff is a big part of the story in the entire Archer series.

By the way:

Why the hell do we see Vulcans running around all the time. Vulcan has been destroyed, and there shouldn't be more than a couple of thousands Vulcans left making it exceedingly unlikely that they would meet them all the time.

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What doesnt make sense?  Franklin was built before enterprise but saw little/no service until after romulan war.  Idris char becomes captain after that, ship goes missing.

 

they probably lost lot of ships in romulan war, so eith threat still there, flew what they could.  A year after wolf 359 Starfleet cobbled whatever they could.  Same during dominion war (constitution class ships even saw service)

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

 

By the way:

Why the hell do we see Vulcans running around all the time. Vulcan has been destroyed, and there shouldn't be more than a couple of thousands Vulcans left making it exceedingly unlikely that they would meet them all the time.

I think you're being unfair now. The two Vulcans were literally there to see Spock and tell him of very important news, and the Vulcans needing to repopulate is a plot point.

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1 hour ago, Jasta11 said:

I think you're being unfair now. The two Vulcans were literally there to see Spock and tell him of very important news, and the Vulcans needing to repopulate is a plot point.

I didn't mean those. I thought I saw some running around on the space station. But I could be mistaken. And weren't there also some running around in the last movie?

Destroying Vulcan was a stupid idea but if you want to do it you should stick to it. Spock should be nothing but one of the few surviving (half-breed) survivors of a dying race.

2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

What doesnt make sense?  Franklin was built before enterprise but saw little/no service until after romulan war.  Idris char becomes captain after that, ship goes missing.

they probably lost lot of ships in romulan war, so eith threat still there, flew what they could.  A year after wolf 359 Starfleet cobbled whatever they could.  Same during dominion war (constitution class ships even saw service)

That just doesn't make any sense. The first Warp 4 ship would have seen more than just some action. If it had only been put into service after the Romulan War it would have just been a Warp 4 ship, not the first.

The impression we get at the very end of the Archer series (which depicts the founding of the Federation after the Romulan War) isn't that Earth didn't have any ships.

In addition, there is talk (at least in the dubbed German version, I didn't - and most likely won't - watch the original) that the Federation was expanding for 'centuries' - which is another glaring error considering that Kirk lives barely a century after Archer.

Other thing:

Did anybody else have huge problems with the potentially interesting female character? Once Scotty reconnects with the good guys she just becomes a featured extra. She has no real connection to the plot not even in a romantic sense. They could have made her a half-breed descendant of the Evil Guy or one of his goons, a love-interest for Scotty (an unusual idea to involve a secondary character in a romance), or involve her more in this whole theme what the Federation was about and/or the 'personal conflicts' the main characters were going through.

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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The idea we get is that the computer swarm intelligence did the thinking for the pilots, right? I mean, the drone goons would never have been quick enough to pilot the ships. Thus them being on board served no purpose at all. It should have been robot ships.

I think the drones were the swarm intelligence, with direct brain-to-brain contact which was disrupted by the VHF signal.

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3 minutes ago, felice said:

I think the drones were the swarm intelligence, with direct brain-to-brain contact which was disrupted by the VHF signal.

Could be. If so, this was never properly established. But if this was the case I don't understand how the individuals could keep everything in order. After all, those pilot-drones did actually pilot vehicles the conventional way (i.e. using their own hands etc.). Not to mention that the music just caused them all to explode immediately when would just assume that this whole thing would simply cause them to break formation. A lot of ships would collide and so forth but not all of them. Not all of them by far.

But I'm not sure if I buy the idea that the pilots were the swarm intelligence because they seemed to be capable of independent evil goon-intelligence when they boarded the Enterprise.

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41 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Could be. If so, this was never properly established. But if this was the case I don't understand how the individuals could keep everything in order. After all, those pilot-drones did actually pilot vehicles the conventional way (i.e. using their own hands etc.).

Swarming is about keeping track of what your immediate neighbours are doing. It doesn't require central coordination of everything; the swarm itself is emergent behaviour. Birds, fish, and insects manage it just fine, so robot pilots designed for the job shouldn't have any trouble.

41 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not to mention that the music just caused them all to explode immediately when would just assume that this whole thing would simply cause them to break formation. A lot of ships would collide and so forth but not all of them. Not all of them by far.

Yes, that was one of the sillier parts of the film. Primarily a visual effects blunder rather than a plot hole; destroying the coordination of the swarm would make it easier for Yorktown's defences to mop up the ships that don't crash into each other.

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Let's be honest, we're lucky that they put in the effort of semi-plausible reasoning. It's pretty obvious the idea of the Enterprise surfing a wave of exploding enemies to the strains of Sabotage came first and they worked backwards from there.

And it's worth it coz that scene was awesome.

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On 8/5/2016 at 3:54 PM, sifth said:

I loved this film. It's the first Star Trek film created by Bad Robot that actually feels like real Star Trek, IMO

See, I've been hearing this a lot, even from my Trek buddies, but I just didn't get that vibe. Maybe I was judging it too harshly when I saw it in the theater. I dug the visuals, but just felt like there was more action than substance. I'll have to give it another shot when it comes to video.

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1 hour ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

See, I've been hearing this a lot, even from my Trek buddies, but I just didn't get that vibe. Maybe I was judging it too harshly when I saw it in the theater. I dug the visuals, but just felt like there was more action than substance. I'll have to give it another shot when it comes to video.

Well sadly you'll always have a lot of action in a Trek film, that's always going to be something you have to go in expecting. That sad, I think this one had much fewer explosions than the last film and much more witty dialog.

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