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2 hours ago, plectrum said:

It seems a more recent phenomenon.  Lady's death in season one was gut wrenching, and Grey Wind's death in Season 3 was equally awful.

We knew those were gonna happen though.  And Greywind was done no justice.  He goes down swinging taking Freys with him.  Summer goes down swinging too but it didn't look like he put up much of a fight because of the numbers.  I just hope Summer and Hodor don't come back as wights.  That would absolutely suck.  

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3 hours ago, Tooms said:

You may recall GRRM's Kathunk speech he gave Tyrion in season 4.

Errrr, that was actually D&D.

GRRM wrote the Purple Wedding for that season.

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3 hours ago, darksellsword said:

I said the same thing when people were convinced D&D came up with Daenerys burning the khals with the help of the dosh khaleen, the very existence of dosh Khaleen and their temple meant Dany was going to tip the table there.

Daenerys burning the khaks is something I can see GRRM do.

 

Daenerys burning the Khals with a couple braziers though? nah.

Daenerys is going to use Drogon for that. I'm pretty sure that D&D couldn't waste so much money on portraying Drogon on-screen every other scene Dany is there so they had to work around that hence the brazier plan.

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Man, I thought a lot of this episode was rough. 

The play was aight, ending was heartbreakingly good, but almost everything else fell flat for me. 

Moqorro's whitewashing = not cool, despite the genderbending, especially in a show that can always use more diversity. 

The Kingsmoot was botched, but no surprise there. That was one of the few parts of Feast that I really like, and it didn't have nowhere near the same effect in the show. It was so different that's like, why keep it. Theon endorsing Yara makes absolutely no sense, dick or no dick. Then Yara's own 20 good men steal all the ships in the Iron Islands while everyone is too busy watching Euron cosplaying a dying Magikarp and not lifting a finger to help him, not even to perform CPR on the guy. 

(And it's a shame we lost the possibility of a good political debate during an election year. Imagine all the juicy Asha/Bernie, Victarion/Hillary, and Euron/Trump parallels.)

 

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First impressions.

Castle Black and Mole’s Town. Yes, Sansa meets Littlefinger and doesn’t order Brienne to execute him at once. He came to them alone? Brave man. Perhaps he wanted to inspire trust etc. And the place of their encounter is so appropriate. Maybe LF feels himself more confident even in a now-defunct brothel. He somehow slithers away from Sansa’s accusations but I feel he has to live till almost the end. Anyway, our heroes now leave the Wall and ride south. What about Edd? The Wall is his now. (While it still stands, anyway.)

Iron Islands. Well, the show-writers have condensed all the electoral process into one relatively short scene. It does make sense. Even Theon’s presence is somewhat justified. But why do the Ironborn even listen to him? Maybe some of them don’t realize who (and what) he is, exactly. So Euron explains it to them. Very simple but very effective speech. And I like that Asha/Yara and Theon manage to flee “with the best ships” during Euron’s immersion (they have what – one, two minutes?). Were do they go? To tell Dany about their evil nuncle?

Braavos. Unlike “Mercy”, Arya doesn’t play her sister. The self-parody show is relatively funny. (And it echoes the dwarf battle from the Purple Wedding). Arya’s storyline has to move faster, just has to. We learn some more about the Waif so we’re supposed to expect her to be killed by “young lady Stark”. But should it be so predictable? And a girl is going to leave a man, no?

Near Vaes Dothrak. Can’t believe that Dany sends Jorah away. It’s what, the third time? Maybe the show-writers see something poetic about it, something meaningful. However, this scene has some beauty. Jorah wants her to take the pity and, well, she does. Go and find the cure. (And it would be such a surprise if he will obediently find it. Victarion had no greyscale, though.)

Meereen. Yes, I’ve read the leaked audition script last summer. But now we see it onscreen. All Tyrion’s political games seem desperate and not-so-subtle, in KL he had managed to be more (clever? intuitive? influential? fearsome?). But, then again, it serves the purpose: we have to see that in Meereen he’s not at home. Anyway, his measures seem to bring the desired result for now. And this lull before the storm reminds us of KL (I’m glad we don’t see it in this episode: maybe next time the events there will move faster).

North of the Wall. Didn’t expect it to happen so soon. For me the main question now is – how Bran and Meera would survive there. Somebody must help them. (Coldhands? I always thought he’s Benjen.) The most shocking thing is: Now the two great (maybe the greatest) secrets of the whole saga are revealed. We know where the White Walkers / Others come from. And we know what “Hodor” means. Do you feel some sadness too?

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I guess this also means the CotF are officially extinct now?  

What a revelation, that the children created the white walkers.  How long after that creation does the lord commander of the nights watch take one for his bride?  Was this done during the war against the first men?  Do the others get so out of control that this is the catalyst that brings the children and first men to the truce?  

 

It really sucks this all came out before WoW.  

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So we get an explanation about the origins of White Walkers. If I understaood it correctly, the CotF transformed a man/men by inserting obsedian into their hearts. But later the WW went rogue and even the CotF could control them.

But this is very similar to the plot of Mass Effect games

Spoiler

 

In Mass Effect, the universe is threatened by a long forgotten sentient beings called 'The Reapers'. The Reapers hide in the dark space for several millenia waiting. Like WW in aSoIaF, most of the other races believes that they are only a legend until they strike. Their origins and goals are kept a secret until the end. Anyway one day they decide to strike and start converting the enemy to fight for them (through something called 'Indoctrination'), just like Whights.

The protagonist try to find a race called 'Leviathans' who are similar to CotF. After finding them, they reveal that they created the Reapers to keep balance in the universe by killing every advanced civilizations. But they eventually went rogue and tried to eradicate their own creators forcing the Leviathans to go into hiding.

 

Sound a bit too similar?

I am still confused about the ending. What really happened. What is real? The present or the past? Is it a never ending cycle?

Oh, and about 'Hold the Door'. I find it really strange that this article from 2014 already figured it out

https://ventrellaquest.com/tag/george-r-r-martin-elevator-story/

So I think 'Hold the Door' is book canon

Edited by athmystikal

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3 minutes ago, athmystikal said:

So we get an explanation about the origins of White Walkers. If I understaood it correctly, the CotF transformed a man/men by inserting obsedian into their hearts. But later the WW went rogue and even the CotF could control them.

But this is very similar to the plot of Mass Effect games

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In Mass Effect, the universe is threatened by a long forgotten sentient beings called 'The Reapers'. The Reapers hide in the dark space for several millenia waiting. Like WW in aSoIaF, most of the other races believes that they are only a legend until they strike. Their origins and goals are kept a secret until the end. Anyway one day they decide to strike and start converting the enemy to fight for them (through something called 'Indoctrination'), just like Whights.

The protagonist try to find a race called 'Leviathans' who are similar to CotF. After finding them, they reveal that they created the Reapers to keep balance in the universe by killing every advanced civilizations. But they eventually went rogue and tried to eradicate their own creators forcing the Leviathans to go into hiding.

 

Sound a bit too similar?
 

Mayhaps, without GRRM's novels to draw on, the d's found another place to get their story from. They certainly can not do it on their own,

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2 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Mayhaps, without GRRM's novels to draw on, the d's found another place to get their story from. They certainly can not do it on their own,

Thats a shame, because the writers of Mass Effect ended up screwing ti all up. Oh I still remember all the fan outcry when the final game in the series came out. They all hated the ending so the developers had to come up with a DLC (downloadable content) to provide more closure to the story.

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Varys's comversation with the new Red Priestess seemed remarkable for a couple of reasons. First, Varys acted very unlike himself, allowing his feelings to get the better of him and acting in a a way that could have blown their political goal. 

Then the red priestess blows him (and us) away by revealing that she knows all about his castration ritual. How does she know this? Two possibilities are (i) she learned about it in the flames, (ii) she was there for the ritual (possible because she is almost certainly glamorous now, could have been the, could even have been the guy who did it). Either of those possibilities suggests that Varys, and perhaps the ritual, is important. Either Red Ralloo is giving a priestess visions about it (maybe so she has good ammo to convince Varys of her powers) or the priestess was involved in the ritual to begin with. 

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1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Varys's comversation with the new Red Priestess seemed remarkable for a couple of reasons. First, Varys acted very unlike himself, allowing his feelings to get the better of him and acting in a a way that could have blown their political goal. 

Then the red priestess blows him (and us) away by revealing that she knows all about his castration ritual. How does she know this? Two possibilities are (i) she learned about it in the flames, (ii) she was there for the ritual (possible because she is almost certainly glamorous now, could have been the, could even have been the guy who did it). Either of those possibilities suggests that Varys, and perhaps the ritual, is important. Either Red Ralloo is giving a priestess visions about it (maybe so she has good ammo to convince Varys of her powers) or the priestess was involved in the ritual to begin with. 

She couldn't have been the guy who did it because we see Varys receive him in a package in the mail in a previous season.  I doubt he just let that guy go.

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I just noticed that the pattern in which the stones are arranged around the heart tree where the conversion took place, is exactly the pattern in which the WW arranged the bodies of the dead in Season 1 and 2

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Just now, briantw said:

She couldn't have been the guy who did it because we see Varys receive him in a package in the mail in a previous season.  I doubt he just let that guy go.

Good catch. Forgot about that. But the point stands: there's something about Varys or the ritual that is important to the priestess. 

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3 hours ago, Dracarys Snow said:

Tabarnak...There goes Summer. I really wish they stopped the puppy killing. 

I had a sense that something similar was going to happen to Hodor, but I didn't think it would be because he saw Bran. So...how is Meera going to protect and carry him around now?

I'm not sure he saw Bran.  It seems to me like Bran was warged into Hodor, and at that WF scene simultaneously he was warged into soon-to-be young Hodor, and Bran acted as a conduit through which he saw himself being killed by walking dead while being commanded to hold the door.  Imagine you're standing there by a cart, minding your own business, then suddenly, you are in ice and snow, trying to hold back a door while someone is screaming for you to hold it back,, and hatchets breaking through the door, held by arms with rotting flesh, and you slowly succumb, not in a dream state, but in a vision that is as real to you as that sunny courtyard had been moments ago.  Talk about PTSD.....

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4 hours ago, xi0 said:

What is with D&D and them spoiling the story in the "Inside the Episode" stuff? I mean, I know HBO has the rights to the story, but do they really have to fuck over the book readers who don't wish to have plot-points spoiled as whether they're the genuine article or not? Are they really that dense?

You could just not watch it? Although, I don't watch it, but it still gets spoiled on the forums for me, so I suppose it doesn't matter.

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10 minutes ago, Grizzly Mormont said:

I think Jon made up a new northern house. He says glover, mormont, cerwyn, Mason(???), hornwood. 

Can anyone hear what he says?

Norrey, I think. 

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16 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Varys's comversation with the new Red Priestess seemed remarkable for a couple of reasons. First, Varys acted very unlike himself, allowing his feelings to get the better of him and acting in a a way that could have blown their political goal. 

Then the red priestess blows him (and us) away by revealing that she knows all about his castration ritual. How does she know this? Two possibilities are (i) she learned about it in the flames, (ii) she was there for the ritual (possible because she is almost certainly glamorous now, could have been the, could even have been the guy who did it). Either of those possibilities suggests that Varys, and perhaps the ritual, is important. Either Red Ralloo is giving a priestess visions about it (maybe so she has good ammo to convince Varys of her powers) or the priestess was involved in the ritual to begin with. 

Kinvara is the First Servant of the Lord of Light so she's most likely the most powerful among the red priesthood. She's most likely seen it all in flames (she knows too much to have been just told by other servants) and by showing her knowledge about Varys' castration ritual she got under his skin demonstrating how R'hllor does have power and Melisandre was just a lower ranked priestess thus shaking Varys' mistrust towards magic.

Though it'd be a small wonder if Melisandre interpreted her visions but R'hllor sent her false visions on purpose of converting Stannis to the religion. We shouldn't also forget that the reason Thoros was sent to Westeros was to convert king Robert Baratheon. R'hllor might actually be one of the major players of the Game of Thrones.

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