[Spoilers] EP606

[Stannis Lives]

It's really not much of a clue if "the valonquar" can be any little brother in westeros. If it turns out to be a random, then it's a red herring and really has no meaning at all. If it has meaning, it will need to be someone close to her. I think Jaime as her killer would be genius. 

[RedShirt47]

9 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

...

Marg has Tommen, her family, the High Sparrow, the people, pretty much all the cards.

Cersei can either poison everyone, or make something go boom.

I agree.

Cersei may love Tommen but that doesn't mean everything she does if for Tommen's good. The point of the prophesy is "The younger more beautiful queen taking all she has". I don't think the tv version ever mentioned The Valenqar.

Cersei could have gone to Casterly Rock and lived a very comfortable life and let Tommen (with Kevan and Margery) rule. But her jealousy and power hungry nature wouldn't let her. She pull down the whole lot of them before she lets Margery be queen.

[CrypticWeirwood]

On June 3, 2016 at 4:36 AM, RedShirt47 said:

Cersei may love Tommen but that doesn't mean everything she does if for Tommen's good. The point of the prophesy is "The younger more beautiful queen taking all she has".

Tommen is all that Cersei has left, and a younger, more beautiful queen has indeed taken him from her. At least it wasn’t Loras. 

[Ser Creighton]

On 6/3/2016 at 10:21 PM, Stannis Lives said:

It's really not much of a clue if "the valonquar" can be any little brother in westeros. If it turns out to be a random, then it's a red herring and really has no meaning at all. If it has meaning, it will need to be someone close to her. I think Jaime as her killer would be genius. 

Not really it's just vague, and it does not lead off plot for certain characters. Like the younger more beautiful queen, you got at least two of them. Though Cersei never thinks anyone is more beautiful than her. But when she does the constant comparisons, it's actually a nod to the prophecy, her mind is always on it. She plays this sort of Mad King role, at least in the books, she starts getting overly interested in Wildfire, she has the incest thing in common with the Targs. Where the Mad King would not let anyone shave him or cut his finger nails, or bathe, Cersei like her gender became an inversion of him. Totally shaved, polarities drawn to the same center. Same basic idea, Theme's and story, but Martin inverts the symbolism.

By that logic the Valonquar should be related to the KG.Jaime, Loras and the Hound all can fit the mold. As the Mad King was taken down by Jaime, Cersei should be taken down by someone tied to the KG. Her relationship with and proximity to Loras suggest it's possibly him, and he would be associated with a younger more beautiful queen.

It's not really just anyone it would seem there are three choices from which to guess. Her younger brother Jaime, The hound and Loras. All could have possible future motivation. Current proximity on the show would suggest Loras, in the books none are all that close to her. Jaime seems the most unlikely given the direction his story is moving, while the Hound could be the surprise contender. Though his future motivations seem more tied to the mountain.While Loras is close with his sister and she is basically the target of Cersei's hatred. It seems when it comes to the mad King or Queen roses often end up dying. After all the Mad Kings son also seemed to be well connected to a certain symbolic rose.

It's never about the most obvious with Martin. Many have thought Dany would go mad because she is his daughter, and there is a history with Targaryens. Some Argue she is more like Rhaegar, and to some extent that is true, she is fond of music, and reading, very bright, picks things up easily. But the Authors Comparisons lend her far more to the Nymeria's and Aegon's of the world.

If Stannis wants to retake the Crown and KL, he is a warrior, a leader, a hero. If Jon wants to lead a band of Wildling raiders into the North to retake Winterfell, he is a hero, a warrior a leader. If Aegon I invades a country and kicks ass, he is a bad ass. If a woman does the same things she is mad? Though she seems to be a mix of Nymeria and Aegon, she has people she is trying to protect, but also Dany is at her best when she is on the move. Her entire life she longs for a home, yet her entire life has mostly been nomadic. She stays in one place for a bit and then moves on.

Martin tend to stick closely with his themes and honestly the show has tried to do something similar. The do not have his skills with dialogue, and lack the amount of time or budget it would take to execute every plot to it's fullest. But they do follow his themes often in subtle manners. Sometimes they even get hammered for it. Loras and Oliver in bed last year was deemed as nothing more than sexposition. Yet looking at the scene we see Loras who is a rose, with a birthmark of Dorne. They point this out for a reason. Because up in the north we have another possible rose, and not the two squires, Oliver, and Olly, both Loras and Jon would be betrayed by them. That is in the style of which Martin often delivers clues in the books. Or now Jon leads an army of foreign raiders to retake his families home, the Wildlings have far from a good reputation. Though some of them we tend to like, like Tormund. But that does not change what Tormund has done in his life, but gosh he is likable. Dany leads an army of foreign raiders to retake her family home. Some like the Dothraki, some don't. But even though Drogo was a horrible person, man did he have his fans, show and book. Martin loves his parallels, and so does the show. 

I do not agree with all the shows choices, but I give them credit for trying to stick with many of Martins themes, symbolic nature, and ideas. They are far more limited than he is with, time, budget, and world building. But they try. In the end the idea that the Valonquar can just be anyone does not really fit. The clues are there, they can be subtle, and often easy to see in hindsight, but the path and logic behind it will be there.

Oh and I exclude Dorne from anything I have just said, I consider it an unidentifiable plot to date and have no clue what the show is doing there. I am sure there will be some point revealed in the future, but right now, not that enjoyable.     

 

[Stannis Lives]

32 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

Not really it's just vague, and it does not lead off plot for certain characters. Like the younger more beautiful queen, you got at least two of them. Though Cersei never thinks anyone is more beautiful than her. But when she does the constant comparisons, it's actually a nod to the prophecy, her mind is always on it. She plays this sort of Mad King role, at least in the books, she starts getting overly interested in Wildfire, she has the incest thing in common with the Targs. Where the Mad King would not let anyone shave him or cut his finger nails, or bathe, Cersei like her gender became an inversion of him. Totally shaved, polarities drawn to the same center. Same basic idea, Theme's and story, but Martin inverts the symbolism.

By that logic the Valonquar should be related to the KG.Jaime, Loras and the Hound all can fit the mold. As the Mad King was taken down by Jaime, Cersei should be taken down by someone tied to the KG. Her relationship with and proximity to Loras suggest it's possibly him, and he would be associated with a younger more beautiful queen.

It's not really just anyone it would seem there are three choices from which to guess. Her younger brother Jaime, The hound and Loras. All could have possible future motivation. Current proximity on the show would suggest Loras, in the books none are all that close to her. Jaime seems the most unlikely given the direction his story is moving

 

I agree with you completely. In fact that was my point. It would need to be a relevant character relevant to the story line and in line with the prophecy. My comment was directed at the numerous outlandish theories about some whore in mole town who has a cousin with a younger brother who could be the valonquar. It must be someone closely intertwined with Cerseis arc. Otherwise it would be a red herring. 

[Jonnie_The_Irish_Wildling]

Just posted a video for the latest episode of Game of Thrones "The Broken Man" just think of it as a review from a dry sarcastic irish lads point of view, if you want to see it click the link below, ps I love this forum, you all know your stuff!