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Episode boring as hell.

Dany has become drunk of power. Hope she becomes mad like her father before the show ends.

Sam's storyline absolutely unexciting.

Tommen becoming dummier by the day.

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7 hours ago, hallam said:

But she seemed to be seeing the issue from Cercei's point of view. Who is she going to kill Cersei or Tyrion?

I don't think she would be killing Tommen though.

I felt that it wasn't so much that she empathised with Cersei and had it in for Tyrion. It was more that she empathised with how Cersei should feel at her family being murdered, and identifying the correct response brought her back to how Arya should feel : ) Hope that makes sense!

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I loved this episode, particularly:

Arya becoming Arya again and reclaiming Needle - I've waited for that for so long.  Hope she heads back to Westeros with the company of players.

Loved the play, and that the waif is after her.

Loved Sam and Gilly, and Sam reclaiming Heartsbane - nice parallel with identity, Arya and Needle.

Benjen's back!

The confrontation at the Sept was fab, too.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

I have to assume that at this point in the series, we're only being shown things that have an impact on the way the story will end. Dorne is out of the picture (for now at least, thank goodness), and as sad as the demise of the direwolves is, would they have made a difference when the real war begins? I guess there's a small possibility that Nymeria's pack will show up somewhere, somehow, but I doubt it. I think Ghost will be pivotal, hopefully in the sense that he rips Ramsay's testicles from his body and pisses on his head before leaving him to die slowly.

Based on that, TOJ, The Mad King, and the murder and violence committed against the Starks (Bran, Ned, Red Wedding) will have an impact on the story going forward. Which leads me to believe that LSH will happen. I know, it's wishful thinking, but consider how many times we've been reminded of Cat and how she died. Then think about how many times someone at the wall mentioned Benjen. To me that was a dead giveaway that he would be back. I also think it's a little bit of fan porn for readers and a huge holy hell moment for the Unsullied. It would be great way to end the season.

Also:

Of course Margery is faking. All of this leads somehow to Tommen's death and a vacancy on the Iron Throne. My guess is a stupid move by Cersei during Jamie's absence that backfires. Speaking of which, the whole "what Lannisters do to (their) enemies" speech...what do they do? Jamie was captured, Tywin killed on the can, Cersei imprisoned, Joff and Myrcella murdered, Lancel's a kingslayer/cousin f#*ker turned holy roller, Tyrion convicted of regicide then 

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sold into slavery (although we have been graciously spared that nonsense).

The Lannisters kinda suck, they just cover it well.

Arya: I've always thought that Jaqen is Syrio, or somehow had knowledge of Arya through Syrio, and he chose to protect her and teach her. Even if not, I don't think he ever believed she would be a FM. She's too emotional. Who else is emotional? The waif. She's not supposed to be jonesing so bad to kill people. I think Jaqen just sentenced her to death. He knows that Arya belongs in Westeros and the Waif shouldn't be a FM. He gets the end result with no dirty hands.

1000 ships. Heavy sigh with eye roll. I don't know how much time is passing, and I know I should suspend disbelief, but there's no way the Ironborn can build 1000 ships overnight and get them to Mereen to carry the khalasar across the sea. (Unless Euron has Littlefinger's transporter.) But, Drogon and Gilly's baby are both huge, so who knows?

I'm really looking forward to seeing Jamie and the Blackfish interact. Part of me hopes that they'll agree on what a POS Walder Frey is and get rid of him for good (unless Sansa does it first).

 

Yeah, I eyerolled at Daario's comment as well and internally made a Daario=Euron joke.:P Yeah, that would be laughable to the extreme, but I'm sure they're the ships Yara and Theon made off with after the kingsmoot and Yara is perhaps taking it upon herself to help or try to kidnap Dany and her dragons(good luck with that one, girl). But if Euron makes it there right afterwards it will be the biggest case of LF teleportation this show has ever done, lol.

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4 hours ago, Ordos said:

So much book 3, 4 and 5 material happening this season now with Jamie going to Riverrun and Coldhands appearing, I feel we are not really very far into book 6 material. That gives me hope for 3 more things from the books that have yet to happen: Kevan Lannister's assasination, Lady Stoneheart and the biggest of all: Aegon/Young Griff.

I'm sure we will see Kevan die, because he's actually in the show.

The ships for LSH and Aegon sailed long ago.  And we aren't in "book 3 material" anymore.  We are getting a delayed Riverrun, but everything else is beyond the books at this point.  So I don't see the show backtracking to add more characters at this point when they are clearly streamlining to get to the end.

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13 minutes ago, sj4iy said:

I'm sure we will see Kevan die, because he's actually in the show.

The ships for LSH and Aegon sailed long ago.  And we aren't in "book 3 material" anymore.  We are getting a delayed Riverrun, but everything else is beyond the books at this point.  So I don't see the show backtracking to add more characters at this point when they are clearly streamlining to get to the end.

Let's review the things from the books that happened this season:

Balon falling off the bridge: book 3 (reference only)

The pink letter: book 5

The Kingsmoot: book 4

Coldhands: appears in books 3 and 5

Jamie goes to Riverrun: book 4

Arya's assasin training: book 4 and 5

With all of that in season 6 when it should have been in season 5 highlights how terrible season 5 was. But it also emphasizes not to get over excited about going beyond book material just yet. Most plot-lines have gone beyond the books admittedly, but they seem to be dragging it out slowly. It also gives me hope that what I mentioned will actually happen.

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35 minutes ago, Ordos said:

Let's review the things from the books that happened this season:

Balon falling off the bridge: book 3 (reference only)

The pink letter: book 5

The Kingsmoot: book 4

Coldhands: appears in books 3 and 5

Jamie goes to Riverrun: book 4

Arya's assasin training: book 4 and 5

With all of that in season 6 when it should have been in season 5 highlights how terrible season 5 was. But it also emphasizes not to get over excited about going beyond book material just yet. Most plot-lines have gone beyond the books admittedly, but they seem to be dragging it out slowly. It also gives me hope that what I mentioned will actually happen.

I said "we are beyond the book material AT THIS POINT".  I never said that this season was beyond the book material.  However, you are clearly twisting the facts to make it seem like we are further behind than we actually are.  Just because they changed the order something happened doesn't mean we are still 'behind' in a storyline.  The show spent the first half of the season catching up the storylines that were a bit behind at the start of the season, which is why I said "at this point".  Let's see how many of those things have already happened at this point in the story:

The Greyjoys: Going after Dany...exactly where the book material ended, and thus into unknown territory at this point.

Jon: Has been resurrected, left the Night's Watch, and the pink letter is come and gone.  Way beyond the books at this point, it doesn't matter when the Pink Letter came.

Benjen: We see him rescuing Bran after Hodor dies...all of which happens long after where we are in the books.  In the books, we only see Coldhands taking Bran TO the tree, so this one doesn't count as 'book 3 and 5 material'.

Jaime: I already stated that they are catching up the Riverrun story.

Arya: We get Mercy, which is CLEARLY in book 6.  So no, this is still beyond the books.

Everything you stated, but one, is now beyond the books.  Like I already stated.  Lady Stoneheart isn't going to show up...it makes no sense at this point, we've already seen Jon resurrected, and she has no real use in the show storyline at this point because if she's only going to kill Freys, the Brotherhood without Banners is absolutely capable of doing that without her help.  

Aegon's appearance was doomed the minute Doran and Trystane were killed.  Jorah gets greyscale instead of Griff, as well.

I mean, if you want to continue holding out fruitless hope that LSH and Aegon will appear, go ahead.  But it's not going to happen.

 

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20 minutes ago, sj4iy said:

I said "we are beyond the book material AT THIS POINT".  I never said that this season was beyond the book material.  However, you are clearly twisting the facts to make it seem like we are further behind than we actually are.  Just because they changed the order something happened doesn't mean we are still 'behind' in a storyline.  The show spent the first half of the season catching up the storylines that were a bit behind at the start of the season, which is why I said "at this point".  Let's see how many of those things have already happened at this point in the story:

The Greyjoys: Going after Dany...exactly where the book material ended, and thus into unknown territory at this point.

Jon: Has been resurrected, left the Night's Watch, and the pink letter is come and gone.  Way beyond the books at this point, it doesn't matter when the Pink Letter came.

Benjen: We see him rescuing Bran after Hodor dies...all of which happens long after where we are in the books.  In the books, we only see Coldhands taking Bran TO the tree, so this one doesn't count as 'book 3 and 5 material'.

Jaime: I already stated that they are catching up the Riverrun story.

Arya: We get Mercy, which is CLEARLY in book 6.  So no, this is still beyond the books.

Everything you stated, but one, is now beyond the books.  Like I already stated.  Lady Stoneheart isn't going to show up...it makes no sense at this point, we've already seen Jon resurrected, and she has no real use in the show storyline at this point because if she's only going to kill Freys, the Brotherhood without Banners is absolutely capable of doing that without her help.  

Aegon's appearance was doomed the minute Doran and Trystane were killed.  Jorah gets greyscale instead of Griff, as well.

I mean, if you want to continue holding out fruitless hope that LSH and Aegon will appear, go ahead.  But it's not going to happen.

 

I sense just a little hostility in your post. Relax. It's only a matter of opinion. And even stating at this point is slightly misleading because you admitted we are still catching up with the riverlands story and Kevan will at some point be killed as happened in the books. I'm nitpicking I suppose, but some people before episode 1 of this season were already talking about completely unknown territory and that we were all in the same boat (not you but I've heard it from others). I say not so fast.

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34 minutes ago, sj4iy said:

I said "we are beyond the book material AT THIS POINT".  I never said that this season was beyond the book material.  However, you are clearly twisting the facts to make it seem like we are further behind than we actually are.  Just because they changed the order something happened doesn't mean we are still 'behind' in a storyline.  The show spent the first half of the season catching up the storylines that were a bit behind at the start of the season, which is why I said "at this point".  Let's see how many of those things have already happened at this point in the story:

The Greyjoys: Going after Dany...exactly where the book material ended, and thus into unknown territory at this point.

Jon: Has been resurrected, left the Night's Watch, and the pink letter is come and gone.  Way beyond the books at this point, it doesn't matter when the Pink Letter came.

Benjen: We see him rescuing Bran after Hodor dies...all of which happens long after where we are in the books.  In the books, we only see Coldhands taking Bran TO the tree, so this one doesn't count as 'book 3 and 5 material'.

Jaime: I already stated that they are catching up the Riverrun story.

Arya: We get Mercy, which is CLEARLY in book 6.  So no, this is still beyond the books.

Everything you stated, but one, is now beyond the books.  Like I already stated.  Lady Stoneheart isn't going to show up...it makes no sense at this point, we've already seen Jon resurrected, and she has no real use in the show storyline at this point because if she's only going to kill Freys, the Brotherhood without Banners is absolutely capable of doing that without her help.  

Aegon's appearance was doomed the minute Doran and Trystane were killed.  Jorah gets greyscale instead of Griff, as well.

I mean, if you want to continue holding out fruitless hope that LSH and Aegon will appear, go ahead.  But it's not going to happen.

 

Well the difference is that the only useful portions of Aegon's story hinged on Tyrion's journey to Mereen and Doran's plot. Both are past the point of being valid.

LSH's central storyline up to this point was Jamie and Brienne in the Riverlands. That's just starting. At this point the only thing with LSH that we didn't get was the epilogue to ASOS.

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10 hours ago, plectrum said:
10 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

aleidoscopic visions that included the Mad King? What new shots were there, really, and which old ones?

You know, it's kind of interesting.  I feel like 98% of that flashback thingy was split between Hardhome and the Mad King.  That would seem to suggest a connection between them...

LS is certainly still possible and all the pieces are moving in that direction. Which seems odd, because i assume the cliffhanger in ADWD was a gigantic troll by GRRM. Maybe not..

fAegon is as cut as cut can be. Him and his merry men in the Books are either going to be squashed by Lannisters/Tyrells or subsumed into a  Dornish attack, or fried by Dragonfire/cut to pieces by Dothraki. Cannon Fodder. 

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14 minutes ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

LS is certainly still possible and all the pieces are moving in that direction. Which seems odd, because i assume the cliffhanger in ADWD was a gigantic troll by GRRM. Maybe not..

fAegon is as cut as cut can be. Him and his merry men in the Books are either going to be squashed by Lannisters/Tyrells or subsumed into a  Dornish attack, or fried by Dragonfire/cut to pieces by Dothraki. Cannon Fodder. 

I personally think that the cliffhanger is likely to happen but I don't think we necessarily need LSH for this, the BWB could very easily just do it themselves.  The fact that I read somewhere that GRRM insisted that the show takes Jaime back to the Riverlands ASAP seems to suggest that to me but I think it has also been said that LSH is not going to be used in the show, which I am fine with because although I did like Cat when alive LSH (although understandably) is so inflexible that I find her boring as a character, her only purpose seemingly causing the reader to fear for characters they might like lol

Aegon I am terribly happy that he is not in the show.  I hated him as a character in the books, he is totally underdeveloped IMHO (I don't doubt on purpose) but seemingly his whole story line is linked to Varys / Ilyrio's trajectory and the Blackfyres.  The fact that he is not in the show to me is a relief since if he won the Iron Throne I think I would burn the book lol  Okay, should not go on a "I hate this character" sort of moan but I guess I would like the end game plots to be given to characters who (love them or hate them) we know well and are capable of stirring strong emotions in the audience / readership.

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7 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Jaime had short hair in the flashback, but he did stab him in the back.  But there is one part that I'm curious about, right after Doogie Howser Stark says "where's my sister" there is someone's hand and forearm on something with a lot of blood, anyone think that could be Lyanna in childbirth?

 

the clothing on the forearm is brown leather, with green cloth underneath.  Stark colors.  Something in the shot is very bloody.  5 minutes and 53 seconds in.

 

granted it could be Robb over fake Westerling at the Red Wedding, I'm not real sure what to make of it.

Can anyone answer the above?

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8 hours ago, Phill P said:

They are all supposed to be nobody yet the Waif has clearly enjoyed beating, tormenting and humiliating Arya as evidenced by the smug little smirk on her face every time she gets to give Arya more hassle. She has emotions, desires, an ego and a sadistic streak. That's a personality, which gives her an identity. So she is not nobody, she is somebody.

Maybe that's the point, that you can never entirely be nobody, that some kind of personality will always remain, but it's still rubbish. Even assassins that are not part of some secret group can be dispassionate. The Waif enjoys it too much, she's like a female Ramsey.

Logically Arya should be able to point this out and discredit her but that wouldn't be dramatic enough and anyway she seems to be the main guy's favourite. Also an emotion, favouritism.

The sooner Arya carves her up and moves on the better. I really hope killing the Waif isn't another stupid test.

I think it is a test of Waif rather than Arya.

The Waif obviously isn't a fully qualified FM. She is also in training but is a year or two ahead. She certainly doesn't fit the character profile. But that is always the problem for baddies, where do you get the hired help. There isn't a craigslist in Westeros.

6 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

Arya: I've always thought that Jaqen is Syrio, or somehow had knowledge of Arya through Syrio, and he chose to protect her and teach her. Even if not, I don't think he ever believed she would be a FM. She's too emotional. Who else is emotional? The waif. She's not supposed to be jonesing so bad to kill people. I think Jaqen just sentenced her to death. He knows that Arya belongs in Westeros and the Waif shouldn't be a FM. He gets the end result with no dirty hands.

1000 ships. Heavy sigh with eye roll. I don't know how much time is passing, and I know I should suspend disbelief, but there's no way the Ironborn can build 1000 ships overnight and get them to Mereen to carry the khalasar across the sea. (Unless Euron has Littlefinger's transporter.) But, Drogon and Gilly's baby are both huge, so who knows?

Jaq'un said that there would be A face on the wall no matter what. Implying that either the actress or Arya would be there. But it could quite well be that the Waif would suffice. One face on the wall...

I was thinking there wasn't time to make ships. It use to take years just to season the wood. Of course they may make ships of dubious seaworthiness.

6 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Lannisters murder their enemies in cold blood.  What irritates me is the whole Dorne storyline last season could have been scratched.  Waste of time.

They had to ice Myrcella and there wasn't room for the riverlands plot in season 5.

4 hours ago, SamuelVimes said:

I suspect that she will be safe once she kills the Waif. The Faceless God or whoever is owed one death; no reason that can't be the Waif instead of Arya. Jaqen doesn't seem like he's inclined to be angry at her, and also, honestly, on a pragmatic level it's just going to be easier for the show going forward if she's not also being pursued by assassins for the rest of her life. I suspect that if she's able to kill the Waif, she's good. And obviously she'll be able to kill the Waif. 

Also, I know folks are saying Sansa is gonna be the embodiment of vengeance, but to me it seems Arya is far better suited to the role of LSH stand-in. I mean, she's had a list for ages, she's already killed people, she's gained some assassin skills, and if she heads to the Riverlands and pairs back up with Nymeria... Just sayin' it could work nicely. 

 

I also think Dany ought to think about WHY she wants to take over Westeros. Yeah, sure, her ancestors came over a couple hundred years ago and smoked some castles and conquered the place. Great. So what? She wants to avenge Rhaegar and his family and all, but... that's not a reason to want the Iron Throne. She wants revenge, not Westeros. She's the kid who wants a toy because someone else took it, but doesn't actually want to play with it. If she can't handle the one city of Meereen, which only has two or three major factions to juggle, she's gonna be completely overwhelmed by seven kingdoms and massive numbers of factions. She may win a war, but unless she changes her personality, she will lose the peace every time. 

I agree except for the LHS stand in bit. Obviously book Arya will be Nijing folk. LHS is wholesale, killing all Freys and Boltons. Arya is the high end retail taking out the high end targets.

On Danny, how many factions are going to be left? House Baratheon is extinct. House Lannister looks set to follow (except Tyrion). House Martell has killed off its male line. The Tyrell heir is still a prisoner of a religious zealot and the Aryn heir is a child being poisoned slowly by littlefinger. The only houses Danny is likely to need to control are Greyjoy and Stark.

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7 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

Arya: I've always thought that Jaqen is Syrio, or somehow had knowledge of Arya through Syrio, and he chose to protect her and teach her. Even if not, I don't think he ever believed she would be a FM. She's too emotional. Who else is emotional? The waif. She's not supposed to be jonesing so bad to kill people. I think Jaqen just sentenced her to death. He knows that Arya belongs in Westeros and the Waif shouldn't be a FM. He gets the end result with no dirty hands.

Eh, I'm more thinking it goes back to the first encounter between Arya and Jaqen.  She stole deaths from the red god and the debt had to be paid.  

I don't think he cares if it's Arya or the waif that pays that debt, but he has to set the two of them on a collision course.  Someone has to die as far as he is concerned.  

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12 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I got the weirdest vibe that the “Burn them all!” cackling was a message about dealing with the wights even then bearing down upon Bran.

I was thinking the same thing. It is a message of how to beat the wights: Wildfire.

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I haven't finished catching up on the thread yet, so sorry if this has been discussed.

I don't know if it's just because I'm half asleep, but I know Aerys was going on with 'burn them all', but I didn't think anything happened with that? Please let me know if I'm wrong, but if the wildfire shots were from Aerys, would KL still be standing? Or at least the castle?

My thought is that the shots are from the future, and it is Cersei burning down KL.

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1 hour ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Can anyone answer the above?

It's Ned's arm, and that's Lyanna's blood right there. 99.9% sure of it.

Context also matters. The "Where's my sister" bit is right before that shot. Why would they show Robb's arm? Just show Robb (as they did).

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1 hour ago, hallam said:

On Danny, how many factions are going to be left? House Baratheon is extinct. House Lannister looks set to follow (except Tyrion). House Martell has killed off its male line. The Tyrell heir is still a prisoner of a religious zealot and the Aryn heir is a child being poisoned slowly by littlefinger. The only houses Danny is likely to need to control are Greyjoy and Stark.

“Control” in what sense?  You mean reign in, or ally with, or take out, or manipulate, or . . . ?

I’d like to think that with the Wall now all but gone, House Stark has far graver concerns than Dany’s little game of thrones down in the southlands.  And Jon and Sansa have no army, at least not before the Knights of the Vale crush the Bolton rabble.  All other threats pale before the Long Night.

That said, I do think you're on to something, because it sure looks like Martin is setting things up so that not even one Great House will make it through the War for the Dawn via inheritance through some true-born male heir. There may be a message there.

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Now that Dany has promised the conquest of Westeros to her khallasar (which may also be the entire Dothraki civilization right now), surely she must return to Meereen first to deal with her slaver enemies. If she is to secure the freedom to all former slaves, she must wipe out every single slave master in Essos. To do so, the slave cities of Yunkai, Astapor and Volantis must be purged.

That scene where Benjen killed all those wights reminds me of that scene in the book #3, where Coldhands rescues Sam and Gilly. I hope that is not a confirmation of Coldhands being Benjen in the books.

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2 hours ago, lancerman said:

Well the difference is that the only useful portions of Aegon's story hinged on Tyrion's journey to Mereen and Doran's plot. Both are past the point of being valid.

LSH's central storyline up to this point was Jamie and Brienne in the Riverlands. That's just starting. At this point the only thing with LSH that we didn't get was the epilogue to ASOS.

I disagree.  If that is her only purpose, then she is unnecessary.  We simply need a rift between Jaime and Brienne, and that can happen in many, many ways without introducing LSH.

Edited by sj4iy

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