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1 minute ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

Man, in this episode we had a full measure of how much Robb screw up things with that marriage, he's causing more damage to the Starks even in his tomb than his brothers

I mean it's not wrong. I'm actually glad they brought that up. The whole North rallied around Robb, they died on the battlefield for him, they opened their homes up to an Ironborn invasion for him, then he blows up one of his most important alliances for some random girl he met on the battlefield, kills Lord Karstark, essentially makes all their sacrifices for nothing because they can't win anymore, and then those that stuck around got murdered at a wedding.

It's even worse in the books because he married a girl from the Westerlands.

Seriously screw Robb, he completely earned that death. Any right minded person would be infuriated with him.

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1 minute ago, lancerman said:

I mean it's not wrong. I'm actually glad they brought that up. The whole North rallied around Robb, they died on the battlefield for him, they opened their homes up to an Ironborn invasion for him, then he blows up one of his most important alliances for some random girl he met on the battlefield, kills Lord Karstark, essentially makes all their sacrifices for nothing because they can't win anymore, and then those that stuck around got murdered at a wedding.

It's even worse in the books because he married a girl from the Westerlands.

Seriously screw Robb, he completely earned that death. Any right minded person would be infuriated with him.

They all have really bad resumes.  

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2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

I mean it's not wrong. I'm actually glad they brought that up. The whole North rallied around Robb, they died on the battlefield for him, they opened their homes up to an Ironborn invasion for him, then he blows up one of his most important alliances for some random girl he met on the battlefield, kills Lord Karstark, essentially makes all their sacrifices for nothing because they can't win anymore, and then those that stuck around got murdered at a wedding.

It's even worse in the books because he married a girl from the Westerlands.

Seriously screw Robb, he completely earned that death. Any right minded person would be infuriated with him.

There's enough in the text of the books to suggest some sort of love potion could have been put into play between he and Jeyne.  Which makes the situation in the books that much more tragic.  Robb's getting too much hate in this thread.  What about Cat letting Jaime go?  Capturing Jaime was probably Robb's greatest accomplishment and far and away his best leverage in that war.  Theon turning on Robb arguably cost Robb the war.  Roose says as much in the books and Roose wasn't lying.

 

If everyone hadn't kept dropping the ball, Robb could have possibly rebounded from the marriage fumble.

Edited by Robb_Warged
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Looks like The North Forgot. Not just their fealty to the Starks but that their family members and men were killed at the Twins. They're making the Northerners look like assholes so LF can save the day.

"The reason bad things happen on GoT has changed. GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys."

Literally everyone is show wants revenge except the Northerners. Huh.

Edited by WolfOfWinter
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8 minutes ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

Man, in this episode we had a full measure of how much Robb screw up things with that marriage, he's causing more damage to the Starks even in his tomb than his brothers

Yup, I really love that the Lord Glover brought up Robb's piss poor decisions. It totally makes sense in that moment. A lot of Northmen died for Robb's childish stupidity. 

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2 minutes ago, WolfOfWinter said:

Looks like The North Forgot. Not just their fealty to the Starks but that their family members and men were killed at the Twins. They're making the Northerners look like assholes so LF can save the day.

"The reason bad things happen on GoT has changed. GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys."

Exactly.  I referenced that quote in a GOT conversation today.  All of the North (except Bolton supporters) should be furious over the Red Wedding

Edited by Robb_Warged
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2 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

There's enough in the text of the books to suggest some sort of love potion could have been put into play between he and Jeyne.  Which makes the situation in the books that much more tragic.  Robb's getting too much hate in this thread.  What about Cat letting Jaime go?  Capturing Jaime was probably Robb's greatest accomplishment and far and away his best leverage in that war.  Theon turning on Robb arguably cost Robb the war.  Roose says as much in the books and Roose wasn't lying.

 

If everyone hadn't kept dropping the ball, Robb could have possibly rebounded from the marriage fumble.

Robb was warned by Catelyn that Balon shouldn't be trusted. And quite frankly, that wasn't Theon's fault. Balon made up his mind whether Robb or Theon liked it or not. The only thing Theon was guilty of was going along with it, it would have made no difference if he went back to Robb, and the Ironborn would have just considered him a traitor anyways.

Letting Jamie was go was a huge problem Cat had. But Robb pardoned her just so he could guilt trip her into forgiving him for marrying Jeyne, oh and then Robb double downed by killing Lord Karstark after.

If you are Northerner you helped a bunch of morons win everyone battle they had, then in the homestretch make the dumbest moves they possibly could to blow it all up. Roose was a dick, but Robb gave him every reason to abandon ship. The rest of the Northerners were left high and dry.

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18 minutes ago, Pandean said:

So is there any chance that Arya actually dies

Because TBH I've never seen a future for Arya's character in the books

but if she dies in some underwhelming way in the next episode

I will not be happy even if I hate her character to pieces

but stabbed in the gut....that is kinda a death sentence anywhere

unless of course D&D say "fuck anatomy" or whatever

Arya was looking out at the Titan of Braavos with the broken sword, but before she was stabbed by the Waif on the bridge.  I think that was one of the Broken Man references from the title.  

Arya needs help with her bleeding stomach wound before her final showdown with the Waif.  I can think of only two potential friends for her in all of Braavos.   One is the actress whose life she saved in the last episode.   But would an actress have the knowledge to treat a wound like that. 

The other would be the Kindly Man from the Faceless Men.  While it would seem unlikely that he would help her at this point, the FM have bent or broken a lot of their rules in their dealings with Arya.  I have a feeling that all along they have had plans for her besides just making her one of their crew of assassins.   What were the odds that she would have first encountered them by coincidence in Westeros?  And how does an organization that selects and trains its members so meticulously, not notice what every viewer noticed for the past few years - that she was not buying into being no one?

My theory is that they no full well that she will never be a true Faceless Man, but are training her anyway because they foresee some role they want her to play in the upcoming events in Westeros.   They have broken all of their rules because there is someone that she is uniquely qualified to kill at a critical moment.  And they are willing to sacrifice the Waif in a final test before she heads back to Westeros. 

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No real surprises, new the Hound was coming back, new Arya was being hunted, way to keep a low profile money bags.

Bear Island is lovely this time of Winter, Lyanna was fun, Davos got all kinds of feels for her. Yippy a new kid to replace the last one.

Oh Sansa, what is that girl doing this time?

Sansa: Jon how can you trust Davos after he had you brought back to life and helped us get the Mormonts on our side.

Jon: Ummmmm, cause he helped bring me back to life, and helped get the Mormonts on our side. Everyone loves him, he is super trustworthy and loyal.

Sansa: Will see about that.

Moments later in her tent.

Dear Littlefinger, how have you been? I'm good, retaking the north with my Half brother who I don't fully trust because of what you said. After all you have been so good to my house how could I not listen to your advice. First the way you helped father into the black cells, and then Ramsey. Nothing but love for you Finger. Hey do you think you can do your Sansy a little favor and bring Robin and the Army of Vale to help us. You move so quickly, you are clearly the only ones who can help.

Sincerely Sansa Stark.

Sansa; Sometimes I even impress myself with my insight and brilliance. This will totally work out, all thanks to Moi, and I totally have Littlefinger under my thumb, after all that Ramsey stuff, he will be so easy to control and he won't try to plot or manipulate anything.

It was an ok episode, it's usually pretty tame around this time in the season. Building up to the big finish. Preview looked interesting, apparently Arya not all that hurt, why bother with suspense, back in Meereen either Moms home or someone is firing Trebuchets. Boy that house better be clean Tyrion, or some wheels is gettin busted, probably over peoples heads.   

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Robb was warned by Catelyn that Balon shouldn't be trusted. And quite frankly, that wasn't Theon's fault. Balon made up his mind whether Robb or Theon liked it or not. The only thing Theon was guilty of was going along with it, it would have made no difference if he went back to Robb, and the Ironborn would have just considered him a traitor anyways.

Letting Jamie was go was a huge problem Cat had. But Robb pardoned her just so he could guilt trip her into forgiving him for marrying Jeyne, oh and then Robb double downed by killing Lord Karstark after.

If you are Northerner you helped a bunch of morons win everyone battle they had, then in the homestretch make the dumbest moves they possibly could to blow it all up. Roose was a dick, but Robb gave him every reason to abandon ship. The rest of the Northerners were left high and dry.

Robb lost the war.  I know his marriage was selfish and people died in vain for him, but unless you're a Northern house that is sincerely allied with the Boltons, they should still have hate for the Boltons and everyone involved with the Red Wedding.  It wasn't just members of House Stark killed and murdered in a historically blasphemous manner at the Red Wedding

 

 

And let's not forget why Robb was even in that King in The North position in the first place; Ned.  Ned ruined his whole family trying to do the honorable thing in KL and I rarely see Ned get half the criticism Robb gets

Edited by Robb_Warged
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6 minutes ago, WolfOfWinter said:

Looks like The North Forgot. Not just their fealty to the Starks but that their family members and men were killed at the Twins. They're making the Northerners look like assholes so LF can save the day.

"The reason bad things happen on GoT has changed. GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys."

Agree to disagree. If the Northerners all rallied around the Starks just because of their name after EVERYTHING that happened, it would be cheating to help the good guys. The Starks burned the Northerners. There is no reason to join up with them besides pure sentimentality. That's just not good enough anymore.

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11 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

There's enough in the text of the books to suggest some sort of love potion could have been put into play between he and Jeyne.  Which makes the situation in the books that much more tragic.  Robb's getting too much hate in this thread.  What about Cat letting Jaime go?  Capturing Jaime was probably Robb's greatest accomplishment and far and away his best leverage in that war.  Theon turning on Robb arguably cost Robb the war.  Roose says as much in the books and Roose wasn't lying.

 

If everyone hadn't kept dropping the ball, Robb could have possibly rebounded from the marriage fumble.

There enough in the books to specifically make clear that Robb tried to act like Eddard without knowing the true story.

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4 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

No real surprises, new the Hound was coming back, new Arya was being hunted, way to keep a low profile money bags.

Bear Island is lovely this time of Winter, Lyanna was fun, Davos got all kinds of feels for her. Yippy a new kid to replace the last one.

Oh Sansa, what is that girl doing this time?

Sansa: Jon how can you trust Davos after he had you brought back to life and helped us get the Mormonts on our side.

Jon: Ummmmm, cause he helped bring me back to life, and helped get the Mormonts on our side. Everyone loves him, he is super trustworthy and loyal.

Sansa: Will see about that.

Moments later in her tent.

Dear Littlefinger, how have you been? I'm good, retaking the north with my Half brother who I don't fully trust because of what you said. After all you have been so good to my house how could I not listen to your advice. First the way you helped father into the black cells, and then Ramsey. Nothing but love for you Finger. Hey do you think you can do your Sansy a little favor and bring Robin and the Army of Vale to help us. You move so quickly, you are clearly the only ones who can help.

Sincerely Sansa Stark.

Sansa; Sometimes I even impress myself with my insight and brilliance. This will totally work out, all thanks to Moi, and I totally have Littlefinger under my thumb, after all that Ramsey stuff, he will be so easy to control and he won't try to plot or manipulate anything.

It was an ok episode, it's usually pretty tame around this time in the season. Building up to the big finish. Preview looked interesting, apparently Arya not all that hurt, why bother with suspense, back in Meereen either Moms home or someone is firing Trebuchets. Boy that house better be clean Tyrion, or some wheels is gettin busted, probably over peoples heads.   

 

 

 

Well said.  I love Sansa (I'm rooting for her more than anyone else), but she drives me nuts

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3 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

Robb lost the war.  I know his marriage was selfish and people died in vain for him, but unless you a Northern house that is sincerely allied with the Boltons, they should still have hate for the Boltons and everyone involved in the Red Wedding.  It wasn't just members of House Stark killed and murdered in historically blasphemous manner at the Red Wedding

Take the Red Wedding off the table. The Frey's and Karstarks were NEVER going to rejoin the Starks army. The Lannister's changed the game with the Tyrell alliance. Now they had the Lannister's with the richest and best commander with the biggest army moving North on them, and the only place they could retreat was back into an Ironborn trap at home.

It would have been a prolonged slaughter of Northerners. Instead they killed unreasonable key players at Wedding, gave a Northern House the keys to the North and told them to go clean up and take care of the Iron Born. In the long run, the Red Wedding is the only reason there is something left of the North.

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19 minutes ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

I am going to be very disappointined if they make Jon fight an army that has double the size of his own and is on a defense position

That make him look very stupid. I know the plan is probably make the Vale army save the day, but at least make the Stark army be roughly equivalent of the Bolton army

They are working against time. They need to strike soon for Rickon's sake, they can't be moving around the North for months trying to rally more men. They can't risk it. They know that when Ramsay gets wind of what's happening, he will take appropriate measure.

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1 minute ago, direwoofwoof said:

During that awful scene with the Sparrow telling Marjory she needs to have sex with the King... did any of your significant others take the opportunity to remind you of your duty? ***sigh***

Yes, yes she did, so I took out the trash, walked the dog, and finished the dishes. duty sucks. Maybe I will get sex as a reward. Nope, nope, she's reading, I guess I'll just play with the light switch till she gets mad.

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7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Agree to disagree. If the Northerners all rallied around the Starks just because of their name after EVERYTHING that happened, it would be cheating to help the good guys. The Starks burned the Northerners. There is no reason to join up with them besides pure sentimentality. That's just not good enough anymore.

None of the Northerners are rallying around the Starks except a few hundred men because they prefer the rule of a psychopathic kinslayer who just killed his own father and brother, flayed the Cerwyns and threatened the Night's Watch. Before that they prefered the rule of a man who collaborated with the Lannisters and killed their kin and soldiers at a wedding. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, this seems like one of the worst decisions anyone's made on the show, especially taking into account that they could easily defeat the Boltons if they untied against them. The Starks and the Northerners have been ruined so others can shine.

The Umbers refused to aid the NW when they called for help when the Wall was under attack, but handed their King to the Boltons because Rickon's bastard brother, who doesn't represent House Stark and who he hasn't spoken to since he was six, let the wildlings pass as a last measure.

Jon and Sansa were both made incompetent when faced with a 10-year-old kid so Davos could save the day.

The Glovers outright refused to join the Starks even though the lord's brother was killed at the Twins.

The wildlings had to be convinced by Tormund to join Jon when he literally died for them and proved himself time and again.

The Starks got fucked big time so the Valesmen can have a significant role in the battle. No doubt Rickon will die as well because the Starks suffering is practically iconic now.

This is absolutely cheating to have the villains win, even if it's momentarily.

Edited by WolfOfWinter
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14 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

Exactly.  I referenced that quote in a GOT conversation today.  All of the North (except Bolton supporters) should be furious over the Red Wedding

I'm sure they are furious, but they have their own families/houses/people to worry about.  And so far, following the Starks leads to death.  Hard to blame them for siding with Ramsey at this point.

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