[Spoilers] EP607

[Robb_Warged]

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

Take the Red Wedding off the table. The Frey's and Karstarks were NEVER going to rejoin the Starks army. The Lannister's changed the game with the Tyrell alliance. Now they had the Lannister's with the richest and best commander with the biggest army moving North on them, and the only place they could retreat was back into an Ironborn trap at home.

It would have been a prolonged slaughter of Northerners. Instead they killed unreasonable key players at Wedding, gave a Northern House the keys to the North and told them to go clean up and take care of the Iron Born. In the long run, the Red Wedding is the only reason there is something left of the North.

You're talking like a Lannister apologist

[Red Tiger]

Its really The old folks who save this episode. Robett Glover was epic, Olenna, Meribald and off course The Blackfish.

[Red Tiger]

On another note, was I The only one who laughed at 62?

[Bear Claw]

Did they say that is where Stannis had his camp?  Davos should come across the truth of Shireen's death.

[Ser Creighton]

5 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

Well said.  I love Sansa (I'm rooting for her more than anyone else), but she drives me nuts

Yeah but that's why you love her, it's like I love Lucy, but with horrible pain and suffering.

[Robb_Warged]

1 minute ago, Red Tiger said:

Its really The old folks who save this episode. Robett Glover was epic, Olenna, Meribald and off course The Blackfish.

The Blackfish was awesome. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

2 minutes ago, WolfOfWinter said:

None of the Northerners are rallying around the Starks except a few hundreds men because they prefer the rule of a psychopathic kinslayer who just killed his own father and brother, flayed the Cerwyns and threatened the Night's Watch. Before that they prefered the rule of a man who collaborated with the Lannisters and killed their kin and soldiers at a wedding. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, this seems like one of the worst decisions anyone's made on the show, especially taking into account that they could easily defeat the Boltons if they untied against them. The Starks and the Northerners have been ruined so others can shine.

The Umbers refused to aid the NW when they called for help when the Wall was under attack, but handed their King to the Boltons because Rickon's bastard brother, who doesn't represent House Stark and who he hasn't spoken to since he was six, let the wildlings pass as a last measure.

Jon and Sansa were both made incompetent when faced with a 10-year-old kid so Davos could save the day.

The Glovers outright refused to join the Starks even though the lord's brother was killed at the Twins.

The wildlings had to be convinced by Tormund to join Jon when he literally died for them and proved himself time and again.

The Starks got fucked big time so the Valesmen can have a significant role in the battle. No doubt Rickon will die as well because the Starks suffering is practically iconic now.

This. 

[Robb_Warged]

1 minute ago, Bear Claw said:

Did they say that is where Stannis had his camp?  Davos should come across the truth of Shireen's death.

"This is where Stannis had his camp.  If you look yonder, this is where he burned his daughter alive"

[Arya Gendry]

24 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

Ned working with LF in KL was a smart move?

Ned and Cat were too nice to play the game. Still, it was a dumb move. That said, I think Littlefinger didn't hesitate to cross Ned because he genuinely hated him for "stealing" Cat. On the flip side, I think he really does love Sansa. He may be IN love with her. Maybe naive, but he looked truly upset when she told him about Ramsay. And despite the fact that he seemingly knows everything, when he first saw Ramsay at Winterfell, he said something to the effect of "I don't know a lot about you." So maybe he will do the honorable thing for once and try to make it up to Sansa.

27 minutes ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

Man, in this episode we had a full measure of how much Robb screw up things with that marriage, he's causing more damage to the Starks even in his tomb than his brothers

There were a lot of screwups. Cat/Lysa/Tyrion, Cat/Jamie, Robb/Jeyne, Karstark...but Bolton conspiring with the Freys to blaspheme guest right and orchestrate the mass murder of dozens of Northmen should trump all of those things. 

[lancerman]

3 minutes ago, WolfOfWinter said:

None of the Northerners are rallying around the Starks except a few hundred men because they prefer the rule of a psychopathic kinslayer who just killed his own father and brother, flayed the Cerwyns and threatened the Night's Watch. Before that they prefered the rule of a man who collaborated with the Lannisters and killed their kin and soldiers at a wedding. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, this seems like one of the worst decisions anyone's made on the show, especially taking into account that they could easily defeat the Boltons if they untied against them. The Starks and the Northerners have been ruined so others can shine.

The Umbers refused to aid the NW when they called for help when the Wall was under attack, but handed their King to the Boltons because Rickon's bastard brother, who doesn't represent House Stark and who he hasn't spoken to since he was six, let the wildlings pass as a last measure.

Jon and Sansa were both made incompetent when faced with a 10-year-old kid so Davos could save the day.

The Glovers outright refused to join the Starks even though the lord's brother was killed at the Twins.

The wildlings had to be convinced by Tormund to join Jon when he literally died for them and proved himself time and again.

The Starks got fucked big time so the Valesmen can have a significant role in the battle. No doubt Rickon will die as well because the Starks suffering is practically iconic now.

This is absolutely cheating to have the villains win, even if it's momentarily.

As far as the North knows of the Starks,

-Robb led them into a war and then completely fucked it up to get his dick wet. Not to mention killed a Lord of one of his more respected banners.

-The Bolton's are the current most powerful house and they have/had an alliance with the crown and the current LP of the Riverlands.

- Sansa had been married to a Lannister and a Bolton. In the books just a Lannister.

- Jon just let an army of savages that raided their land for hundreds of year into the North and for all they know is completely betraying the Night's Watch.

It's pure sentimentality to side with the Starks at this point. Even if you aren't all that high on the Boltons they got the Lannisters/Tyrell's off your backs and got the Ironborn the fuck out of there. It's absolutely cheating to let the heroes win. Especially if it's stupid "Great Northern Conspiracy". The entire North should be irate at the Starks. At the very least, they shouldn't be rushing to help them over the Bolton's. The Bolton's hold the power. Why betray the current biggest House for a dying House that completely burned you? Because the North Remembers?

The show is right. The only reason to join the Starks is if you absolutely believe the WW threat and see an urgent need to unite the North. If you don't, you're better off watching everything play out because you are dealing with assholes on one side and idiots on the other.

[Bear Claw]

What is curious to me is that in Bran's flashback his grandfather emphasized winning to his son not honor. If they only listened!

[plectrum]

2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Of course he is: it's the season for the dead to return, the main meta-theme.

This is actually a very insightful point.  I hadn't thought of that, but you're absolutely right.

Not to sound shocked.  You always post good stuff.  

[lancerman]

13 minutes ago, Robb_Warged said:

You're talking like a Lannister apologist

LOL. Am I wrong though? If the Red Wedding never happens, how does it end in anything but the Starks completely undermanned and outflanked on both sides. The only ways it ends at that point is Robb surrenders and the Starks lose all power forever, Robb decides to fight a prolonged losing battle that gets everyone killed and rips the North apart. Or someone says "you know what, this idiot just fucked us lets get out while we still can and save our own skin". Which is what Roose did in the most screwed way imaginable.

[CrypticWeirwood]

1 hour ago, Robb_Warged said:

 

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

What is curious to me is that in Bran's flashback his grandfather emphasized winning to his son not honor. If they only listened!

Jon Aryn taught Ned to be a loveable idiot and Robert to be a drunk.

[finnegan_stark]

I get it everyone: Loyalty and honor is for suckers. The Starks are stupid and deserve everything they get. So could you just kill them all and be done with it? Stop prolonging it!

[CrypticWeirwood]

46 minutes ago, Robb_ said:

So, where does Arya go from here. I think it's clear she won't die, if that was going to happen it would have happened then and there. Is it possible Theon spots her? Or that she somehow ends up on the Ironborn ships (and heading toward Daenerys)? I hope not because I want her back in Westeros asap, but there was a reason they had her hear the conversation about the Ironborn arriving at Slaver's Bay. 

In next week’s preview we see Super Arya doing her parkour high jumps — despite having last seen her at death's doorstep with her guts carved up.  That means she was not only healed but also turned into some sort of super-powered version of her former self.

There’s only one possible way for any of that to happen: magic.

Didn't you hear the magical Faceless Man theme playing as she was stumbling through the crowd?

An odd thing for a man to do, but there is no other way.

[Darksky]

8 minutes ago, lancerman said:

As far as the North knows of the Starks,

-Robb led them into a war and then completely fucked it up to get his dick wet. Not to mention killed a Lord of one of his more respected banners.

-The Bolton's are the current most powerful house and they have/had an alliance with the crown and the current LP of the Riverlands.

- Sansa had been married to a Lannister and a Bolton. In the books just a Lannister.

- Jon just let an army of savages that raided their land for hundreds of year into the North and for all they know is completely betraying the Night's Watch.

It's pure sentimentality to side with the Starks at this point. Even if you aren't all that high on the Boltons they got the Lannisters/Tyrell's off your backs and got the Ironborn the fuck out of there. It's absolutely cheating to let the heroes win. Especially if it's stupid "Great Northern Conspiracy". The entire North should be irate at the Starks. At the very least, they shouldn't be rushing to help them over the Bolton's. The Bolton's hold the power. Why betray the current biggest House for a dying House that completely burned you? Because the North Remembers?

The show is right. The only reason to join the Starks is if you absolutely believe the WW threat and see an urgent need to unite the North. If you don't, you're better off watching everything play out because you are dealing with assholes on one side and idiots on the other.

People prefer the fairytale-esque 'the north remembers' plotline.

Lord Snow and Lady Bolton need to earn Northerners' loyalty instead of relying on Ned's pre-King's Landing actions and reputation to get it.

Glover made a solid point with that Ironborn stuff. Umbers with the Wildlings stuff. Karstarks with Lord Karstark's beheading and so on. There's a lot of mending to be done in the North.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

No Sam, Bran, Dany, or Euron.

Bran is probably only 1 more appearance, the finale, when he reaches The Wall.

Sam is probably only 1 more appearance as well, signaling his arrival to The Citadel.  We need to feel the threat of the WW before Sam uncovers the secret of how to beat them.  So Oldtown is really S7..

And Euron is just waiting around to replace Ramsay's screentime, my guess.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Zombies That Were Promised

[aryagonnakill#2]

24 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Did they say that is where Stannis had his camp?  Davos should come across the truth of Shireen's death.

Your forgetting about the shows many telleporter devices.  It's important not to forget about those. Afterall Baelish can move thousands of miles per day.