[Spoilers] EP607

[conceptualinertia]

6 hours ago, Bacibear said:

I just read an article that said it was Euron and iron islanders that killed Meribold and his people and not the bwb...

 

My guess is that it was a rogue group of BwB who are fulfilling the role of the fake Hound crew (Biter et al) from the books.

[conceptualinertia]

7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I have been very hard on Sansa but with the way the show is portraying Jon, I don't blame her one bit for writing that letter to whoever the hell she wrote it to...  Where is Jon's fire?  Where's his leadership?  Taking command?  Like when he took over the watch during the battle for castle black...  Like when re recruited men for the raid on the mutineers?  Like when re rallied the wildlings at Hardhome?  Why not go around preaching about the WW's coming?  Why so fucking quiet?  Why Davos has to be the only one with any fucking sense or fire in his belly?  Jon's character has regressed and the shit is dumb. Now he doesn't even want to try to rally the Cerwyns or Manderlys...  Sansa please help this damn fool because he sure ain't coming across as the King in the North I expected him to be...

I think they are trying to show that since he died, Jon's a lot more of a pessimist. Understandably.

[Imp Beyond the Wall]

11 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Wait, Sansa has a nephew now?  Who's that?

Tommen.  She is legally still Lady Lannister.  Little lady Mormont called her ought on her bigamy.  

[WolfWarg]

10 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

Arya is GRRM's wife's favorite character, so I doubt it. She's young and very fit, and the blade was short. Plus she's been drinking all manner of funky FM juice, so she may have super powers. I would be incredibly shocked if that's the end of her.

I think she just faked her own death. Perhaps she had pouches of 'blood' stored on her person as she was spending time with the mummers - was there a scene in the play where someone was stabbed and there was a lot of blood? She's totally not that unsavvy. Don't think she's going by ship either, think that was a false trail : ) Or at least not by that ship!

Edited June 6, 2016 by WolfWarg
clarification

[WolfWarg]

7 hours ago, Phill P said:

Arya isn't that stupid and for all that some people think the show runners are incapable of subtlety or misdirection I don't think that's true either.

The Waif is already dead. The Waif got played.

Arya knows she cannot hide so she sets a trap. She staged the whole thing.

She lets it be known she wants to leave. Throwing money around, being nice and loud, making sure lots of people hear it. Then she finds a spot where she can escape if attacked and stands there waiting, apparently without a care in the world.

This bait is too much for the Waif to resist and she catches and stabs Arya.

But the Waif is a sadist who gets off on humiliation. She could have slashed Arya's throat straight away but she chose a belly slash because it takes longer to die from. She wants Arya to suffer. She stops to make a point of showing Arya her face. Arya escapes but that's fine too. It appeals to her to let Arya bleed out with time to think about it. It also leaves a small window for Arya to get healed.

Arya allows herself to be stabbed, pushes the Waif away and throws herself over the bridge. She makes a big play of being mortally wounded with plenty of witnesses as she staggers through the streets dripping blood, knowing this information will get back to the assassins.

 

Should have read this first before I posted - my thoughts exactly  : ) Or almost exactly as I don't think she needs to heal as I believe she used pouches of blood.

Edited June 6, 2016 by WolfWarg
clarity

[Sam with Hooters]

8 hours ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Wish I could convince myself Arya is in danger, but it's not gonna happen. If she was dead, she'd already be dead. Not stumbling around Braavos.

Good thing this is one of the rare FM failures! Good thing the waif didn't go for her heart or throat! Or pursue her at all! 

Conjecture:

Arya is staging the whole thing to fake her own death.  She KNOWS the FM would be after her and that the waif would both volunteer to do the deed and make it slow and painful (gut wounds).

The FM would figure out she'd try to get home, so Arya deliberately calls attention to herself ("Hey, Westerosis! Have some cash, ha ha!") at the wharf.

She deliberately lets her guard down and has hidden Needle somewhere.  She has also planned to throw herself into the canal and carefully memorized where the closest canal-stairs are.

Notice how she sank like an anchor?  She's wearing armor under  her shirt with blood-bladders on top (arranged by Lady Crane).

Once out of the canal she staggers around gasping, making sure she is SEEN.  (The onlookers do nothing because if they did the believeable Middle Ages thing--a mercy killing--it would foil the entire subterfuge).  Ideally she'll "die" in a way that makes her face un-harvestable.  (Wonder if the waif will face a penalty for this?  Wonder if Ja'quen is actually aware of the ruse?  Maybe the FM have Klingon promotion.  Wonder if the showrunners were actually smart enough to run this angle while ruining so many other characters).

I predict Arya will indeed be doing the Parkour thing next episode, none the worse for wear.  No magic necessary.

 

Of course it might've been even smarter to let the FM assume she'd drowned and arranged for a suitably-bloated-and-unrecognizeable dead body in Arya's clothes to drift up the canal in a few days. (Arya's done enough handling of dead bodies to not mind digging up a convenient corpse.)

Let's hope she also has sense enough to ask Lady Crane for a really good disguise!

Remember, I called it!

 

Edit:  Looks like several people beat me to it.  Not trying to steal their thunder, honest.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Sam with Hooters
Politeness.

[a black swan]

6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Don't know if the acting troupe or Lady Crane is scheduled for another appearance but someone must patch Arya up. I expect Arya will end the waif next episode though. I expect her to leave the blood trail on the wall luring the waif into the dark where she will stick her with the pointy end. 

They are. They will be in 3 episodes this seasons. I think they will for the basis for Arya's escape. The trailer for next week looks so good. The Hound and Arya both getting their justice. There is so much symmetry between certain characters. It has to be intentional. 

[protar]

Ian McShane was a fun cameo - shame he was only in it for one episode. Guess he just wanted to be part of the show. Loved Lyanna Mormont. That kid has sass.

There's still precious little actual plot development though. I feel like each episode is merely a promise of what is going to happen next. But each episode pushes it off further and further. Jon and Sansa are still trying to get Northern Lords to support them, Cersei and the Tyrells are still worrying about the High Sparrow, other plot lines are absent. The only major progression here is Arya being stabbed and of course the Hound's return. 

[Phill P]

2 hours ago, Morna The Maid said:

Phil P: Yes, I've read the books and know how Cersei really is. That' the point. All the stuff you mentioned, I don't see any of that on the show. Back in Season 4 I belive, we saw the Iron Bank in one episode, but where did that plotline go? When have we heard about Cersei giving the finger to the IB? And I got the impression this season that Cersei did want power oh yes, but she would have known EXCACTLY how to "handle it" if that pesky High Sparrow creature didn't magically appear (like the show repeatedly reminds us, it was *Cersei* who re-legitimized the FM Order--um, NOT) and those danged Tyrells weren't in the way, raining on the parade, doing stuff like seducing sweet innocent clueless Tommen away from Mommy.  Before this season, the Tyrells were kinda kewl, but now that they're in cahoots with the HS apparently...now all of a sudden it's like, OMG Cersei/KL  is in danger, let's off this HS punk for Westeros's sake. Like they came out of nowhere and just exploded into this socio-political threat. They didn't come from nowhere, not even on the show...but it's amazing how quickly we are being made to forget things.

 

Like the Red Wedding and how outraged we were, in spite of the fact that we knew Robb had screwed up.

Like how Sandor wasn't just about revenge against his brother, but finding his "little bird." Dave and Dan have pretty much killed that; Sansa stopped being anyone's "little bird" on, say, a certain wedding night. I wonder if they'll ever meet again (not impossible, since he was mentioned, sort of, in a Sansa and Brienne scene a few eps ago) but what will he think when he looks into her cold dead eyes. The face and eyes of a hardened woman....not the relatively unscathed--and certainly still maiden--young girl from the books whose first sexual awakening is unknowingly (to him) engendered by him. At the end of Book 5 Sansa has budding sexual feelings and dreams of the Hound kissing her get in the way as she goes about the Vale watching LF play politics with the Lord of the Vale, learning to flirt with boys her own age,  and as she becomes foster parent to SweetRobin. Dave and Dan have simply  killed one of the two great Beauty and the Beast "romances" of the books.

This is one of the reasons book readers were so upset and continue to be, about her rape in S5. The story of book Sansa and the Hound was one of the few tender interludes in a grim story. Tender on reflection of course. It's hugely important b/c in a story that descends into hell and everyone is out for their own skin, she teaches this cold killer to feel his first compassion for a human being; he could never have eventually felt about Arya the way he did in book and even more so in the show if not for her.  ("the wetness on his cheek that was not blood" etc.) She humanizes him, What he gave to her...well, her fantasies about knights. This may be strange, but there it is. We grasp for any human decency in this story no matter how small, and D/D have turned it into all revenge, revenge, revenge.

Which brings me to Jamie "I dreamed of you" Lannister. He says that to..Brienne, in the book. Well, if spoilers for future episodes be true, that "romance" is offically dead as well.

The "valonqar" part of the prophecy was signifigantly cut out of the show, which means Cersei will not be killed by her "little brother" (be that Jamie or Tyrion.) Nope, with the way things are going, they'll probably be the last 2 Lannisters alive and will die tragically and beautifully in each others'  arms.

 

Tyrion wants to kill Cersei? Really? I didn't know that. It's not  like he mentioned his "sweet sister" in any sarcastic kind of way since 5X01, I could be wrong, he barely mentioned her at all, and that phrase, never. Maybe he will in the book, but I find it hard to believe that the show's two Black Hole Sues would ever stoop to something so low and sordid..on TV at least.

 

See I'm differentiating between what's in the book and what future generations will remember as the definative version of ASOIAF. Yes, we may get all the books eventually, but this is a post-literate world. George can talk all he wants about GWTW book vs movie but I'll bet you 5 out of 100 people under 50 have read or will read GWTW, and that's just ONE book. No, you sat GWTW everyone knows it by the movie.

 

 

You say you are differentiating but you are not, you switch from what the books say to how bad the show is to what people will remember - all in your highly questionable opinion.

In book 5 Tyrion states he wants to kill Cersei. In the show he barely mentions her but it is not hard to imagine that he wants personal revenge on the woman who has always looked for any excuse to kill him and whose actions forced him to do everything he did.

We see Cersei ignoring money problems in the episode where she appoints her advisors, who are clearly both sucking up to her and not fit for the job. Also in the books, although Cersei does not empower the Faith Militant directly she does ask the High Sparrow to excuse her debts to them and he refuses - unless she lets him reform the Faith Militant. So their power still comes from her, whether she chose it or was manipulated into granting it.

So yes, she is aware of both the debt to the Iron Bank and the Faith Militant, and of doing nothing about either.

In both books and show it is clear that what brings Cersei down is her own inability to rule effectively. She would be unable to with or without the Faith around. GRRM himself has said before that her problem is she wants power but doesn't know what to do with it, and I'll take his word for it because it is clear she is out of her depth, both in the books and the show, with nobody to blame but herself.

As for any other stuff I saw and you didn't, I can't help you with that. Nor with your desire to pour scorn me with unnecessarily sarcastic responses such as "really?"for not agreeing with you. That's your problem too. Really.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Phill P

[Darksky]

I immensely enjoy the way the show keeps shitting on Stannis, even after his death.

'Stannis....who lost the Blackwater, who murdered his own brother, who doesn't have a head.' kek

Now the final act would be for Ramsay to have him on one of those crosses.

[WolfWarg]

44 minutes ago, Sam with Hooters said:

Conjecture:

Arya is staging the whole thing to fake her own death.  She KNOWS the FM would be after her and that the waif would both volunteer to do the deed and make it slow and painful (gut wounds).

The FM would figure out she'd try to get home, so Arya deliberately calls attention to herself ("Hey, Westerosis! Have some cash, ha ha!") at the wharf.

She deliberately lets her guard down and has hidden Needle somewhere.  She has also planned to throw herself into the canal and carefully memorized where the closest canal-stairs are.

Notice how she sank like an anchor?  She's wearing armor under  her shirt with blood-bladders on top (arranged by Lady Crane).

Once out of the canal she staggers around gasping, making sure she is SEEN.  (The onlookers do nothing because if they did the believeable Middle Ages thing--a mercy killing--it would foil the entire subterfuge).  Ideally she'll "die" in a way that makes her face un-harvestable.  (Wonder if the waif will face a penalty for this?  Wonder if Ja'quen is actually aware of the ruse?  Maybe the FM have Klingon promotion.  Wonder if the showrunners were actually smart enough to run this angle while ruining so many other characters).

I predict Arya will indeed be doing the Parkour thing next episode, none the worse for wear.  No magic necessary.

 

Of course it might've been even smarter to let the FM assume she'd drowned and arranged for a suitably-bloated-and-unrecognizeable dead body in Arya's clothes to drift up the canal in a few days. (Arya's done enough handling of dead bodies to not mind digging up a convenient corpse.)

Let's hope she also has sense enough to ask Lady Crane for a really good disguise!

Remember, I called it!

 

Edit:  Looks like several people beat me to it.  Not trying to steal their thunder, honest.

Yep, I agree with all of this : )

[a black swan]

8 hours ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Wish I could convince myself Arya is in danger, but it's not gonna happen. If she was dead, she'd already be dead. Not stumbling around Braavos.

Good thing this is one of the rare FM failures! Good thing the waif didn't go for her heart or throat! Or pursue her at all! 

That was the Waif's first big mistake. She is getting too confident, not retreiving the body or bringing Jaqen Arya's face. Sloppy. I feel like this is ALL a test for the Waif. She is farther along in her apprenticeship and I think Jaqen was ready to see if she is No One. Signs point to the fact that she is NOT behaving like someone who has no identity. She is taking personal pleasure in torturing Arya. She was told not to let her suffer and failed that request. 

Look at the way "Arya" is walking, talking, and generally caring herself. It doesn't feel like her. Where did she get two bags of silver coin? Her clothes are different and look expensive. She wants to travel first class? The real Arya wouldn't give a damn how she is travelling, especially with the FM threat hanging over her. Getting OUT is her main priority. Unless that wasn't Arya buying a seat on the ship or casually strolling the streets when the last time we saw her she was hiding in some underground alcove in the dark.

 

Lastly. Where is Needle? 

[Darksky]

Arya is attracting her prey and luring her into a trap in this episode. 

'Arya has a plan'.

[a black swan]

9 minutes ago, Darksky said:

Arya is attracting her prey and luring her into a trap in this episode. 

'Arya has a plan'.

Yup.

Also the Huffington Post is spreading this theory that is growing in popularity:

Arya is actually the Waif and that since she drank from the pool and lost her eye sight the proceeding events are a figment of her mind. Which would go further to showing Arya's traumatised state of mind PTSD and so on. There is more to this theory that needs ferreting. 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/game-of-thrones-theory-arya_us_57541ae4e4b0ed593f14ab46

Edited June 6, 2016 by DutchArya

[Nerevanin]

I don't feel like going through the 18 pages, so sorry if it was already asked but can someone explain to me what happened to Melisandre? I don't I've seen her in any scene, although she was among those leaving Castle Black....

[Arya Gendry]

3 hours ago, Morna The Maid said:

Which brings me to Jamie "I dreamed of you" Lannister. He says that to..Brienne, in the book. Well, if spoilers for future episodes be true, that "romance" is offically dead as well.

 

 

 

About that. In the trailer it looks like there is one scene where he's talking to Brienne, and another where he's talking to someone else. Edmure, possibly. (Of course, that could just be bad camera work/editing.) I'm (stupidly) hopeful that he gives the Cersei speech BEFORE he sees Brienne, who makes him have second thoughts.

Of all the changes from book to show, Jamie/Larry bothers me the most.

[Gi_Varotti]

I don't know if someone else already said this (I'm too many post behind) but what if Sansa was writting the letter to Theon? The "gratitude" we saw there would also fit him.

As for Arya, I'm not sure about what will happen to her but some ideas that crossed my mind are:

1. She'll die and the girl will wear her face to fulfill the theatre contract
2. She'll die and the girl will go to Westeros disguised as Arya
3. It wasn't Arya (not sure if you can have someone's face without killing him/her first)
4. The theatre folks will help her

I mean, she's been in the House long enough to know how things work there. She wouldn't be so careless and naive.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Gi_Varotti

[mck]

15 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Man I feel like this episode had about 10 good minutes and 50 of the worst minutes this show has ever produced.

Obviously everything is up to one's interpretation. I for one, thought this episode was pretty good, all things considered. I whole heartedly believe that the first episode this season was the worst that they have made. The entire episode was botched, and made me think that i should give up on the show. I'm glad that I didn't get up because it's got somewhat better since then.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

6 minutes ago, mck said:

Obviously everything is up to one's interpretation. I for one, thought this episode was pretty good, all things considered. I whole heartedly believe that the first episode this season was the worst that they have made. The entire episode was botched, and made me think that i should give up on the show. I'm glad that I didn't get up because it's got somewhat better since then.

Very true beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there is no doubt, I just think for a show that is pressed for time they sure do waste a lot of it.  

[mck]

4 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Very true beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there is no doubt, I just think for a show that is pressed for time they sure do waste a lot of it.  

You have a good point. They probably should have spread Jon & sansa's plot about getting others in the north to rally for them across a few episodes so as not to milk so much time in this one. I have a feeling a lot of this seasons twists and turns will be revealed in eps 9 & 10 though. I really hope they can pull it together and make the series end on a high note, because they have muddled in mediocrity for a little too long now.