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On 6/6/2016 at 8:06 AM, Phill P said:

Arya isn't that stupid and for all that some people think the show runners are incapable of subtlety or misdirection I don't think that's true either.

The Waif is already dead. The Waif got played.

Arya knows she cannot hide so she sets a trap. She staged the whole thing.

She lets it be known she wants to leave. Throwing money around, being nice and loud, making sure lots of people hear it. Then she finds a spot where she can escape if attacked and stands there waiting, apparently without a care in the world.

This bait is too much for the Waif to resist and she catches and stabs Arya.

But the Waif is a sadist who gets off on humiliation. She could have slashed Arya's throat straight away but she chose a belly slash because it takes longer to die from. She wants Arya to suffer. She stops to make a point of showing Arya her face. Arya escapes but that's fine too. It appeals to her to let Arya bleed out with time to think about it. It also leaves a small window for Arya to get healed.

Arya allows herself to be stabbed, pushes the Waif away and throws herself over the bridge. She makes a big play of being mortally wounded with plenty of witnesses as she staggers through the streets dripping blood, knowing this information will get back to the assassins.

Then she hides and heals herself with stuff she has prepared and stashed already. Last week we saw her in the dark with Needle and I thought she was waiting for the Waif. Now I think she was preparing a place to rest and heal.

The Waif walks away with that annoying smirk she has, then starts feeling dizzy, then realises when Arya pushed her away she gave her a tiny scratch...

Or Ayra will just get better then hunt down the Waif and run her through with Needle. Whichever.

Although at first sight this could appear rather crackpot I think you could be absolutely right.  Well, at least it would make sense. The way in which the attack happened seemed odd, Arya certainly would have expect the FM to come after her and yes, the payment was done in a very flamboyant and public manner.  We know for a fact that the FM have potions to blind people and restore their sight so not hard to imagine something that can instantly heal wounds...  My money is definitely on yes, Arya knew what she was facing hence the synopsis "Arya makes a plan" (or something to that effect can't recall the exact wording).  Also that would explain how she is fit and well in the next episode.  Whether you are right or wrong I have to admit that this theory has merit.

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On 6/6/2016 at 9:35 AM, Morna The Maid said:

Oh yeah: I forgot one other "Black Hole Sue" plot involving Cersei. Her recently-acquired saintliness is such that it even stretches across the Narrow Sea, making Arya Stark "love" her. Arya can totes sympathize with a mother grieving for her child, (even more than her own family, apparently, I wonder why it's the VERY FIRST shred of sympathy we've seen from her in 4 seasons, I mean she's never shown mourning her family or reflecting on anything that's happened to her, not even shedding a single tear for ANYONE but "Cersei"? even though this is the opposite of the book...come to think of it, we've had whole long SCENES of Lannisters mourning their dead all through this series, but we've gone half the series with  none of the Stark children remembering their parents, let alone their siblings existed before this season, and apparently Arya and Bran STILL  don't. ) ANYWAY...even though she knows she's just watched a fabricated and skewed version involving that "grieving mother" who she knows murdered her own parents, one of them before her very eyes, it makes no difference. Doesn't she remember the play she *just* watched last episode *snark*. In the interests of staying faithful to the spirit of the books that don't pick and choose, we need also a powerful reminder of why we should sympathize with Starks.  if I didn't know better, I'd say that Sansa is turning into Season 1-4 Cersei and Cersei  is turning into Season 1-4 Sansa! (ie the "innocent victim of stuff she doesnt understand".)  Which may be D/D's goal, since they worship Lena Headey so much. Who is a great actress, I love her too, but I still don't see why the total 360 flip on her character.

I personally was never under the impression that Arya developed any sudden sympathy for the real Cersei and it was clear from her facial expressions and even laughter when actor Joffrey died that she knew this version of the story was rubbish and that she did not sympathise one bit with the Lannisters.  It was the actress and not Cersei she felt sympathy for as she had done nothing wrong other than take part in a play which is her job.  I just thought that was obvious and it kind of surprises me that this could at all be interpreted at Arya changing her views about what happened in the real story or that she got to be sympathetic at all.  Of course she gave Lady Crane advice but this was just kind of stating the obvious; of course any mother would want revenge and a good actress should capitalise on that but hey, pretty obvious advice.  Whilst it might well be true that D & D might have favourite characters I really, really do not see this as any attempt to put real Cersei into a good light.

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On 6/6/2016 at 2:46 PM, Sam with Hooters said:

Conjecture:

Arya is staging the whole thing to fake her own death.  She KNOWS the FM would be after her and that the waif would both volunteer to do the deed and make it slow and painful (gut wounds).

The FM would figure out she'd try to get home, so Arya deliberately calls attention to herself ("Hey, Westerosis! Have some cash, ha ha!") at the wharf.

She deliberately lets her guard down and has hidden Needle somewhere.  She has also planned to throw herself into the canal and carefully memorized where the closest canal-stairs are.

Notice how she sank like an anchor?  She's wearing armor under  her shirt with blood-bladders on top (arranged by Lady Crane).

Once out of the canal she staggers around gasping, making sure she is SEEN.  (The onlookers do nothing because if they did the believeable Middle Ages thing--a mercy killing--it would foil the entire subterfuge).  Ideally she'll "die" in a way that makes her face un-harvestable.  (Wonder if the waif will face a penalty for this?  Wonder if Ja'quen is actually aware of the ruse?  Maybe the FM have Klingon promotion.  Wonder if the showrunners were actually smart enough to run this angle while ruining so many other characters).

I predict Arya will indeed be doing the Parkour thing next episode, none the worse for wear.  No magic necessary.

 

Of course it might've been even smarter to let the FM assume she'd drowned and arranged for a suitably-bloated-and-unrecognizeable dead body in Arya's clothes to drift up the canal in a few days. (Arya's done enough handling of dead bodies to not mind digging up a convenient corpse.)

Let's hope she also has sense enough to ask Lady Crane for a really good disguise!

Remember, I called it! :)

 

Edit:  Looks like several people beat me to it.  Not trying to steal their thunder, honest.

Now mummers involvement also could make a lot of sense and would give some continuity to the story line started last week

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On 6/6/2016 at 4:15 PM, Arya Gendry said:

About that. In the trailer it looks like there is one scene where he's talking to Brienne, and another where he's talking to someone else. Edmure, possibly. (Of course, that could just be bad camera work/editing.) I'm (stupidly) hopeful that he gives the Cersei speech BEFORE he sees Brienne, who makes him have second thoughts.

Of all the changes from book to show, Jamie/Larry bothers me the most.

I have to admit I am not happy with that either (Jaime still in love with Cersei).  Now, I wonder if the cliffhanger ADWD ended with regarding these two will be "adapted" to a battlefield confrontation between Brienne and Jamie.  I would be disappointed if this is the case, although I am perfectly happy to see another character take the role of LSH since I hated her inclusion in the books.  Now, if they do fight, well I doubt Jamie will die since I am convinced that Cersei was right in saying that they came into the world together and will leave together (also inclined to link this with the volonquar prophecy blah....) and then, if he doesn't die, does Brienne? (assuming they fight each other one to one).  Although the show is a different beast all together I don't think that major characters such as those two will die too differently or get to live/die in one and not the other.  I guess we shall have to wait and see but I very much hope that there is some intense scene involving him and Brienne hopefully one that despite the drama is a little heart warming...

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On 6/6/2016 at 8:42 PM, JamesD2020 said:

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode a lot!  Lady lil miss mormont was such a scene stealer I am highly impressed with the show's uncanny abilities at finding gifted children actors.   So my impressions...

Cleganebowl -  Yup, this is a given...  Who else will Champion for the High Sparrow vs the FrankenGregor.

Cersei - Setup for her losing her mind and dousing the entire city up in wildfire?  She nearly lost it during S2 Blackwater when she was about to poison her son and commit suicide.  If the tables are turned during the Cleganebowl and her son kills himself because Margery is no longer "in love with him", I think the noose will tighten enough for Cersei to drown out the entire city in wildfire.  It isn't beyond her to take desperate actions because she loses everything and everyone.  It will be interesting to see if Jaime can survive this or will he too continue on a path for revenge even if there is nothing left for him to do so.

Bastardbowl - It appears evident that Jon will lure Ramsay out now that he knows that the latter likes to take a frontal approach given the Bolton's last victory vs stannis.  I think that Jon will anticipate this and have like an epic Braveheart moment (when Wallace uses long spears to take out the calvary rush) but despite 'tactics' ramsay's ground intranfy have superior numbers and start to gain favor again.  It is in this moment we will have another 'army' rescue moment when the Vale Knights pop out seemingly out of no where and storm the battlefield.

Lastly Arya - She clearly planned this out.   She absolutely knew that the FM will come after her, even if she was to flee to westeros, how can you deal with having a cult who can change faces at will be on the back of your mind wherever you end up?  I mean that would bring great fear knowing that at every retreat, village, life milestone that she could have could be potentially threatened by people who can assume new identities to ensure the 'mission' is carried out.  Obviously Arya has to deal with these FM before she can even think about returning to Winterfell.  I think her plan is brilliant; feign her death and prep up for her retaliatory move if any.  I say if any because I believe she know's Jaqen will ask the Waif if the mission is complete, which the reply will be a yes.  I don't believe he will be convinced either by his deity influence or the waif might give it away in a smirk that speaks passion.  Either he will end the waif's life then and there and let Arya be free OR we will get the epic Arya takes revenge on the Waif with needle in hand.   Still I don't believe she could escape from Jaqen unless it was clearly a violation on the Waif's part to take pleasure in Arya's suffering as well as not killing her outright.  She might get the FM's pardon and let her be on her merry way.

 

Really good analysis IMHO.  Now, with Cersei my personal prediction is that yes Tommen will die probably on the last episode of this series, however I do not think he will kill himself, I think she is going to panic at some point during the trial and set the sept on wyldefire and this might well result in the accidental and unplanned death of Tommen which I reckon will set the valanquar prophecy in motion.  Of course it was never said that the death of her last child and the valanquar killing her have to happen at the same time.  If I am correct though (which I might very well not be) this would point towards Jamie and not Tyrion.

As per the Bastardbowl, totally agree with you that the army from the Vale will arrive at the very last minute and save the day but yes, Jon might well use the tactics you mention.  Makes sense.

With Arya yes, the more I think about it the more I agree that if she had just escaped successfully to Westeros the FM would still hunt her down, so she needed "a plan" indeed.

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We are not done with Book 5 yet. Most of the show characters are picking up plots from more than one book character. So Sansa did fake Arya and Jamie did the Dorne rescue. 

I took Jamie's kiss as a sign that the break with Cersei is about to begin. if it doesn't happen it is probably because book Jamie ends up back with her. Right now though the show runners want to remind us whose fault the whole war of five kings was in the first place. So they are showing Arya seeing her point of view while also showing that she basically deserves everything she gets.

Brienne's message is going to be kind of interesting, she is basically going to ask the blackfish to give up Riverrun so they can take back Winterfell from the Boltons. Which is not exactly a great deal except that the Lannister army is laying siege to it.

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On 6/7/2016 at 3:16 AM, JLE said:

What if it's to Littlefinger... not asking him to bring his army north, but getting it to attack the Freys so the Northern hostages there can escape?

Or... perhaps... to Old Walder Frey, with the news of how Fat Walda was murdered by Ramsay Bolton (as was Roose Bolton who made the deal) and surely an actual murder is ten times worse than breaking a marriage contract, therefore the Freys have no business supporting the Boltons against the Starks any more, and since it's *his* keeping Northern lords prisoner that is now holding their families on the Bolton side, could he perhaps see his way to setting them free and suddenly Bolton has has no bargaining chips to keep the Northern lords on his side?

I have been wondering if we are to get to see a Frey reaction to Walda and her baby's murder

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5 hours ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

What's with all the double- and quadruple posting all of a sudden? Haven't people heard about the edit button?

Just to clarify something I was answering comments as I saw them.  Since this thread is rather long it took me quite a while to read it so my posts weren't done one after the other.  It so happens that the thread has been quiet this evening so for a while I might have been the only member posting.  My apologies if there is a problem with this.

Edited by Morgana Lannister
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Did anyone else mentioned that we may get a hint of Theon's or Ramsay's or both of them deaths when Yara and Theon were talking in last episode 7 of season 6. Theon said :  "If I got justice my burned body would hang over the gates of Winterfell." 
We know there will be burned bodies hanged in Winterfell.

Edited by _OBi
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I suppose that it is not really linked to this episode but I hope no one minds:

Now that Jaime was kicked out of Kingsguard, who is the head of house Lannister? After Tywin's death, it was Cersei because Tyrion is accused of treason and regicide and Jaime was in Kingsguard. Now he's not there anymore. So does he automatically jumps ahead of Cersei in the line of succession?

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11 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I suppose that it is not really linked to this episode but I hope no one minds:

Now that Jaime was kicked out of Kingsguard, who is the head of house Lannister? After Tywin's death, it was Cersei because Tyrion is accused of treason and regicide and Jaime was in Kingsguard. Now he's not there anymore. So does he automatically jumps ahead of Cersei in the line of succession?

I thought that as well. Tommen has achieved what Tywin never did.

I reckon he is head of house Lannister as the eldest son of Tywin. Tyrion is younger in any case.

Interestingly, they are both considered Regicides. I think they probably both killed their father as well.

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I don't know what made BwB to commit that crime at the end of this episode. Maybe because their new leader is Thoros and because of that they are now killing all R'hlorr non-worshipers. The Hound will now most likely kill their entire brotherhood.

I think there is no point for anyone to cherish any more hope for the Lady Stoneheart appearance on the show.

As for the book story, I always hoped that Sandor found faith, and that he's repenting for his past sins and crimes. But, if he's going to return to his old ways of warrior, I hope that the reason for that will be Sansa.

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Much like episode six, a largely filler episode to push stories forward. The return of the hound and the possibilities with Arya were the highlights. It has set up fantastically for the last three episodes which are always something special. Quick review of the episode https://www.the-newshub.com/film-and-tv/game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-7-the-broken-man-review

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Quote

Although at first sight this could appear rather crackpot I think you could be absolutely right.  Well, at least it would make sense. The way in which the attack happened seemed odd, Arya certainly would have expect the FM to come after her and yes, the payment was done in a very flamboyant and public manner.  We know for a fact that the FM have potions to blind people and restore their sight so not hard to imagine something that can instantly heal wounds...  My money is definitely on yes, Arya knew what she was facing hence the synopsis "Arya makes a plan" (or something to that effect can't recall the exact wording).  Also that would explain how she is fit and well in the next episode.  Whether you are right or wrong I have to admit that this theory has merit.

Quote

 

 

To play the devil's advocate, and why I was originally skeptical of this, faking her death in such a manner would gain Arya very little considering the risk involved.  Since the waif is a far superior fighter, trying to manipulate a surprise attack like that would probably get her killed, even if she could be sure of exactly where and how the waif would stab her. And it's not as if the FM are careless; if they really want her dead they'll be highly suspicious if no one actually witnesses her dying and the waif can't account for her body or face. But more importantly is the fact that if she gets out of Braavos without faking her death, she obviously would need to lay low for a very long time after getting to Westeros (as she'll obviously have to do regardless of the Faceless Men). On the other hand, if she fakes her death, she'd be doing the exact same thing anyways, since once word got out that Arya is alive, the hunt would be on again. Having the opportunity to escape, it would make little sense to try to one-up the FM in one last machination, especially considering her past failure to either deceive or hide any aspect of herself from them.

 

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12 hours ago, Lord_Weirwood said:

To play the devil's advocate, and why I was originally skeptical of this, faking her death in such a manner would gain Arya very little considering the risk involved.  Since the waif is a far superior fighter, trying to manipulate a surprise attack like that would probably get her killed, even if she could be sure of exactly where and how the waif would stab her. And it's not as if the FM are careless; if they really want her dead they'll be highly suspicious if no one actually witnesses her dying and the waif can't account for her body or face. But more importantly is the fact that if she gets out of Braavos without faking her death, she obviously would need to lay low for a very long time after getting to Westeros (as she'll obviously have to do regardless of the Faceless Men). On the other hand, if she fakes her death, she'd be doing the exact same thing anyways, since once word got out that Arya is alive, the hunt would be on again. Having the opportunity to escape, it would make little sense to try to one-up the FM in one last machination, especially considering her past failure to either deceive or hide any aspect of herself from them.

 

Could be but I doubt it. Remember when Arya killed the man on her list and then got told off for it? A life had to be taken to balance it. That was when we learned that as long as a life was taken in payment the slate was clear, so to speak.

So I don't think if Arya escapes that the FM will hunt her down because that's inconsistent with the narrative so far.

She wasn't really cut out to be an assassin anyway. She's had 2 jobs and messed them both up. The first by killing someone she wasn't told to and the second by not killing someone she was. The first death was paid for, the second has yet to be. Either Arya or the Waif will do.

Anyway that's what I think. Arya will kill the Waif and then the boss man will let her go - with a huge sigh of relief, most likely.

And it makes Ayra a better character. She kills, yes, but only when she has some personal involvement in the situation, such as when she sees injustice or for revenge. Obviously killing for revenge isn't healthy but at least she isn't a completely cold blooded assassin who, when you get past all the crappy pseudo philosophy to try and make it sound noble, basically just kills for money.

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Ep7 was a disappointment, the second in a row. The Hound, though. (Rory McCain is an excellent actor.)

 

Eps 1-8 of Season 5 were essentially a preparation for the final two-three episodes (sorry but I really don’t like “Hardhome”, I think the main enemy was revealed too soon). Eps 1-7 of Season 6 are something like that. It’s a season of resurrections but it’s also a season of waiting. It’s not a filler, it’s not really a build-up, it’s constant, sometimes tedious waiting. Jon was awaiting his resurrection and now he waits for the battle. Sansa waits for a chance to make a strong move and LF waits for his chance too (offscreen). Dany waits for a fleet (but this season she did manage to do something, namely burn some male chauvinistic pigs and send off Jorah again). Yara & Theon are sailing to her (offscreen) while doing nothing else. Arya waits for a ship too, we haven’t really seen her new special skills yet. (Arya’s line could be the best if it weren’t so sparsely distributed.) HS waits for I don’t know what (a chance to rule the empire through Tommen and his extremely modest wife?). And he doesn’t start the trial. Cersei waits for her trial obviously doing nothing (I hope we really don’t see it but she’s actually planning, scheming, reviewing wildfire storages, offscreen). Margaery waits for her chance too. I can hardly imagine how they fit all these storylines into only three episodes, however longish. (And Ep 9 will traditionally be the battle, probably without anything else.) Bran and ToJ, Samwell and his extended family, Euron the Shipbuilder, Brienne and Jaime reunion, (Podrick and Bronn reunion), Blackfish and the siege, Davos-and-Mel confrontation, Sandor and the Brotherhood, Meereen. And possibly some Dorne too.

 

The Hound is the only good thing in this episode. And all the castles are very pretty though I remember another Riverrun, not so nicely formed.

And yes, Lyanna Mormont. But she’s too perfect so she’s probably doomed.

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