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1 hour ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Wish I could convince myself Arya is in danger, but it's not gonna happen. If she was dead, she'd already be dead. Not stumbling around Braavos.

Good thing this is one of the rare FM failures! Good thing the waif didn't go for her heart or throat! Or pursue her at all! 

She wanted her to suffer. That was plainly obvious in the other episode when Jaqen told her to make it quick and painless.

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7 minutes ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Wish I could convince myself Arya is in danger, but it's not gonna happen. If she was dead, she'd already be dead. Not stumbling around Braavos.

Good thing this is one of the rare FM failures! Good thing the waif didn't go for her heart or throat! Or pursue her at all! 

Arya isn't that stupid and for all that some people think the show runners are incapable of subtlety or misdirection I don't think that's true either.

The Waif is already dead. The Waif got played.

Arya knows she cannot hide so she sets a trap. She staged the whole thing.

She lets it be known she wants to leave. Throwing money around, being nice and loud, making sure lots of people hear it. Then she finds a spot where she can escape if attacked and stands there waiting, apparently without a care in the world.

This bait is too much for the Waif to resist and she catches and stabs Arya.

But the Waif is a sadist who gets off on humiliation. She could have slashed Arya's throat straight away but she chose a belly slash because it takes longer to die from. She wants Arya to suffer. She stops to make a point of showing Arya her face. Arya escapes but that's fine too. It appeals to her to let Arya bleed out with time to think about it. It also leaves a small window for Arya to get healed.

Arya allows herself to be stabbed, pushes the Waif away and throws herself over the bridge. She makes a big play of being mortally wounded with plenty of witnesses as she staggers through the streets dripping blood, knowing this information will get back to the assassins.

Then she hides and heals herself with stuff she has prepared and stashed already. Last week we saw her in the dark with Needle and I thought she was waiting for the Waif. Now I think she was preparing a place to rest and heal.

The Waif walks away with that annoying smirk she has, then starts feeling dizzy, then realises when Arya pushed her away she gave her a tiny scratch...

Or Ayra will just get better then hunt down the Waif and run her through with Needle. Whichever.

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Don't know if the acting troupe or Lady Crane is scheduled for another appearance but someone must patch Arya up. I expect Arya will end the waif next episode though. I expect her to leave the blood trail on the wall luring the waif into the dark where she will stick her with the pointy end. 

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18 minutes ago, Phill P said:

Arya isn't that stupid and for all that some people think the show runners are incapable of subtlety or misdirection I don't think that's true either.

The Waif is already dead. The Waif got played.

Arya knows she cannot hide so she sets a trap. She staged the whole thing.

She lets it be known she wants to leave. Throwing money around, being nice and loud, making sure lots of people hear it. Then she finds a spot where she can escape if attacked and stands there waiting, apparently without a care in the world.

This bait is too much for the Waif to resist and she catches and stabs Arya.

But the Waif is a sadist who gets off on humiliation. She could have slashed Arya's throat straight away but she chose a belly slash because it takes longer to die from. She wants Arya to suffer. She stops to make a point of showing Arya her face. Arya escapes but that's fine too. It appeals to her to let Arya bleed out with time to think about it. It also leaves a small window for Arya to get healed.

Arya allows herself to be stabbed, pushes the Waif away and throws herself over the bridge. She makes a big play of being mortally wounded with plenty of witnesses as she staggers through the streets dripping blood, knowing this information will get back to the assassins.

Then she hides and heals herself with stuff she has prepared and stashed already. Last week we saw her in the dark with Needle and I thought she was waiting for the Waif. Now I think she was preparing a place to rest and heal.

The Waif walks away with that annoying smirk she has, then starts feeling dizzy, then realises when Arya pushed her away she gave her a tiny scratch...

Or Ayra will just get better then hunt down the Waif and run her through with Needle. Whichever.

Though, I don't think the Showrunners are all that good as the show is par at best of times I also look at prior work- the 25th hour I liked but common a halo movie flop the director basically saying blame the writer because he killed it. Anyway ultimately doesn't matter because of the work they did here has signed their tickets and they can basically do ANYTHING they want in Hollywood. And they could just piss on my opinions Don't believe me? Wait and see. anyways YOU are absolutely right IMO and I actually thought this same thing near word for word minus the poison I didnt think of that because the showrunners tend to forget about chekhov's gun(s). 

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1 hour ago, Ser Creighton said:

You know the thing about his season is they are kind of stalling.

Dany and Meereen. Dany gets the Dothraki, well we knew that one was coming, and it has not gone much past the books. Jorah, not even a real arc.  Ummm Meereen, well not much has happened there, they dumped the siege and Tyrion and Varys talk. We got a red priestess, and an Iron fleet is on the way. Has not actually gone past what was written really. It's different, Tyrion and Dany meet, and well not for very long, but that was expected at some point.

Arya, well they sort of gave us Mercy but sort of broke up the plot. She got some random villain to keep her a bit busy. She wants to leave, that has been the advancement.

Jon is back. Kind of blind if you didn't see that coming. But what is Jon doing? Essentially he got the Stannis plot which was basically scrapped last year.

Brans plot has hardly been on screen but we got Hodor's name, the creation of the others origin story and Bloodraven download. That plot has advanced. A lot.

Sansa, Sansa like Jon basically is playing a different role this season, like last. We got no Vale arc really.

Still waiting for Davos Mel confrontation.

Situation KL is pretty much where it has been fort awhile. Sparrow is taking power, Tommen is a putz, Marg is playing the game, Cersei is a time bomb.

Jaime finally got to the Riverlands, book 4.

The Hound is back, well not much different than the books. Though they just came out and said who he was. BwB plot? Well that's not really from the books and seems like filler, sort of like Arya and the Waif, Jon and Sansa, or Varys and Tyrion walking around Meereen.

The story has not advanced all that much, in some story arcs this season, rather it's filler. Some arcs are actually behind, like the riverlands and the hound. Some plots were cut but then replaced with different characters doing the same arc.

The did the Tower of Joy... sort of. That was from book one. We have seen some plot advancement in certain arcs like Bran, some filler in other arcs, some getting back to the books which has taken them backwards in the timeline, and some characters being blended into other roles and stories. Feels a bit like some stalling here.

 

Agree totally.  While there have been some decent moments, the season so far has been a lot of very little.  Almost every arc altered just enough to probably not be the same as the books so book readers aren't spoiled much if at all.

If we're down to roughly 10-11 episodes, a lot of material was wasted... and there seems to be even fewer reasons to have diverged from a lot of these plots that they have.  Dorne could not exist at all excepting for killing Myrcella.  The Sons of the Harpy are supposed to be filling me with terror at who they'll kill next... but no, they're content for now.  It won't even surprise me if the show just leaves Missandei or some unnamed advisor in Meereen while Dany takes her Khalasar west finally... they've got a 7 year deal with the slaver's, why should the show even bother with the knot?

Same with the North.  Of course they're having difficulty rallying the North to the Stark cause, if they all said yes too quickly there'd be very little drama.

All of Lady Olenna's appearances this season, pointless.  She came, made a crack about how she can smell the shit 5 miles away from KL and that was about as good as it got.  Acting as if Tommen didn't follow the Faith so he can be 'converted' then become the HS's pawn-king... that may happen in the books in some fashion, but it seems clear as a book reader this whole arc was/is filler, what was wrong with the faith withholding their blessing like the books?  A show of force by the Tyrells/Lannisters just nullifies any judgment Margaery had coming... all pretty easy changes that alter how the book's chapters will compare... but what are they waiting for?  Apparently they know the ending so why the stalling, unless to give time for TWoW to be out by next year's season start... 

I do like many aspects of the show but some of the choices they make are baffling.  If we're down to two seasons, shortened ones at that, they seem to be wasting time and material... but as long as we see a brothel and some tits, we'll forget all that might have been! 

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Just now, The Great and Mighty Poo said:

Though, I don't think the Showrunners are all that good as the show is par at best of times I also look at prior work- the 25th hour I liked but common a halo movie flop the director basically saying blame the writer because he killed it. Anyway ultimately doesn't matter because of the work they did here has signed their tickets and they can basically do ANYTHING they want in Hollywood. And they could just piss on my opinions Don't believe me? Wait and see.

I don't disbelieve you. You may well be right. I hope they don't get arrogant though and maybe even learn to write better stories in future, using this experience to learn from both the good bits and the mistakes. That said, I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as some here.

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Apologies if anyone has made a reply to the type of post I'm going to write but I have to "reply" anyway to comments I'm reading on pg 10, I'm so steaming angry about some comments that I have to write even before I get to reading pgs 11 to now. Maybe this should be in the Criticize thread, but I'll write this here too.

 

I absolutely DESPISE the level of deception being played by the show-runners here. This season was advertised as completely off the rail, different from the books" but it's not. They're playing a very, very deceptive game of balancing selective "adaptation" and invention. I would prefer straight invention at this point. But it's all in service of a cause, because unlike George, who presents all Houses equally in their respective strength and flaws, making you root for everybody, Dave and Dan have their favorite Houses and actors and are going to absurd lengths to serve their own personal fan-service. With themselves as the "fans" in this case.

 

I will be polite about this though, so..here I go. the post that set me off was along the lines of "why would anyone want to root for the Starks? they're complete a-hole and George complete fan-service with the "north remembers" crap. Assuming the poster isn't a troll, (really? George screwing up a story D/D wrote? TROLL) Here's what I would have done, as a scriptwriter, just for the sake of making the story more interesting. Just as we are being presented with a version of the story that makes things complicated for Sana and Jon in dealing with their situation at this stage of the story, the show could also have taken some time to show scenes with each of the Northern Houses, showing how difficult it was for them to maneuver too. the big, big, HUGE fact from the books that D/D have not reminded the audience of is that not only did the Freys break guest right and kill people, but they did something else too.

 

Not only did every Northern House lose a family member at the RW, Walder Frey is currently holding all the survivors hostage. This is a BIG fact: all the Houses have relatives that the Lannister allies the Freys are holding. So if the Houses are reluctant to publicly join Sansa Stark, they do not want to antagonize the Freys (yet). What the show needs to remind the viewers (if D/D are so stuck at this "why would we support someone who deals with the wildlings?" arc) is that the North has complications too.  Just as Sansa has to deal with someone she hates (LF) to get a job done (overthrow the Boltons) these Northern Lords who hate Jon for the Wildlings should also be saying publicly, "Well, we hate Jon b/c he did this, but the Boltons must go and we need to get our hostages back somehow,  so we may need to suck up to someone we hate" (Sansa) A double-dedeption, that makes for Nortern intruige nd amich more nteresting plot. Manderly is playing this game in the books, which is what makes his "The North remembers"speech so powerful. Without the fat of the hostaes, the impending "House Mazin" (UGH) Speech will not bee so epic. It'll be "well so what?" Hard choices made on *all* sides.

INSTEAD it's a one-sided fight. D/D's great sin is making the North hate the Starks more then they should. If the Starks are so evil, just who exactly do the Northern Houses want to rule instead? the Boltons? There seems to be no northern unity (which is exactly the opposite of the books, where the Stark children are loved simply b/c Ned and Rickard were such great rulers, they will support them. Any sins are seen as Robert's cuase, not theirs. And tonight clinches it; D/D officially hate the Starks, since they had Sansa raped and Arya seriously wounded, after being repeatedly beaten to a pulp.

 

At the same time, they are committing a mortal sin: they are making characters boring. Tryion and Cersei esp have become Black Hole Sues, they can do no wrong. (Look it up: there is a Tv trope called a Black Hole Sue.) Everyone in Meereen is a little child sitting at his feet basking in his wisdom, even the dragons;  while Cersei is such a saint now, she doesn't even reply to someone who throws major shade at her, even when all the veiwers know it's completely out of character for her? She sits there as noble as Jackie Kennedy at JFK's funeral. Jaysus, Cersei. Do something. Snark.  Complain. Crack an awesome bitchy joke as only Cersei can. Show some life. When Cersei Lannister goes cray-cray, I expect it to be on an epic scale, just like in the books. Even though her "flame doesn't burn so bright" anymore, she MUST have her Cersei-ness. But no. She must speak meekly if she speaks at all, and move quietly and sedately, as if she DOESN'T know that her loyal self-appointed servants Qyburn and Mountain are slaughtering her enemies in her name. Oh, she knows nothing now? But NOBODY gets past Cersei! You speak a word and you are ant food! Olenna just signed her death warrant in Ep 10 and of course the audience won't know how much they loved Olenna, they'll laugh with the rest. And Margeary is all of a sudden horrified that anyone like her grandma would DARE to throw shade at Cersei! And she will die for it! This is absurd you say? Well, she's sure acting like it! Anyone who touches the Lannisters are dead!

 

We need to see a mixture of good and bad from the Starks (not just Dave and Dan's goal of making people hate Sansa, thinking Jon is a dimwit, Bran is nothing more than a colssal f*-up who could be responsible for the disasters of the past, Arya a killing machine with no "hole in her heart" mourning her family, etc.) Why not have Sansa evolve into a hero, someome who rises to triumph over her rape (instead of having it make her a bitch) while Jon remains a dimwit? Why can't we have a screw-up like Bran AND an Arya who stares at Needle and wipes a tear from her eye and says "I miss Jon and my family"? Just as we need to see the Lannisters as more than the "good guys" at this point (people not only need to see Cersei as a victime, they need to be reminded that she is suffering foe evils she created--the FM, and her personalityw, the whole thing hunting tyrion and how she madehim suffer, etc. she was Joffrey's mama boy. Jamie can't just be a badass taking names in the Riverlands and loving his sis, he has to be complex too. ..

 

Edited by Morna The Maid

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9 minutes ago, Phill P said:

I don't disbelieve you. You may well be right. I hope they don't get arrogant though and maybe even learn to write better stories in future, using this experience to learn from both the good bits and the mistakes. That said, I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as some here.

Oh I hope my "don't believe me"  didnt come off as bad as it sounds with your reply. If It did my apologies. But yes I agree with you all the way. Though I tend to agree with the show bashers. However I still enjoy it as I'm a sucker for anything fictional. Anyway I'll stop derailing the thread now. 

All and all the episode was a 5 out of 10 stars. But it was a setting up the dominoes episode so maybe 6 out of 10 in that case. 

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Oh yeah: I forgot one other "Black Hole Sue" plot involving Cersei. Her recently-acquired saintliness is such that it even stretches across the Narrow Sea, making Arya Stark "love" her. Arya can totes sympathize with a mother grieving for her child, (even more than her own family, apparently, I wonder why it's the VERY FIRST shred of sympathy we've seen from her in 4 seasons, I mean she's never shown mourning her family or reflecting on anything that's happened to her, not even shedding a single tear for ANYONE but "Cersei"? even though this is the opposite of the book...come to think of it, we've had whole long SCENES of Lannisters mourning their dead all through this series, but we've gone half the series with  none of the Stark children remembering their parents, let alone their siblings existed before this season, and apparently Arya and Bran STILL  don't. ) ANYWAY...even though she knows she's just watched a fabricated and skewed version involving that "grieving mother" who she knows murdered her own parents, one of them before her very eyes, it makes no difference. Doesn't she remember the play she *just* watched last episode *snark*. In the interests of staying faithful to the spirit of the books that don't pick and choose, we need also a powerful reminder of why we should sympathize with Starks.  if I didn't know better, I'd say that Sansa is turning into Season 1-4 Cersei and Cersei  is turning into Season 1-4 Sansa! (ie the "innocent victim of stuff she doesnt understand".)  Which may be D/D's goal, since they worship Lena Headey so much. Who is a great actress, I love her too, but I still don't see why the total 360 flip on her character.

Edited by Morna The Maid

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7 minutes ago, Morna The Maid said:

1) unlike George, who presents all Houses equally in their respective strength and flaws, making you root for everyobdy, Dave and Dan have their favorite Houses and actors and are going to absurd lengths to serve their own personal fan-service. With themselves as the "fans" in this case.

 

2) INSTEAD it's a one-sided fight. D/D's great sin is making the North hate the Starks more then they should. If the Starks are so evil, just who exactly do the Northern Houses want to rule instead? the Boltons? There seems to be no northern unity (which is exactly the opposite of the books, where the Stark children are loved simply b/c Ned and Rickard were such great rulers, they will support them. Any sins are seen as Robert's cuae, not theirs. And tonight clinches it; D/D officially hate the Starks, since they had Sansa raped and Arya serioulsy wounded, after being repeatedly beaten to a pulp.

 

3) At the same time, they are commiting a mortal sin: they are making characters boring. Tryion and Cersei esp have become Black Hole Sues, they can do no wrong.

 

1) On the contrary, in the books it is pretty clear to me that the Lannisters are the worst when it comes to childish spite and vindictiveness. The other rulers of other houses may be vain, stupid, cruel and self centered in their own way, but I can't see any of them wanting to humiliate their bride as Joffrey did to Sansa. Except for Ramsey of course, but he is an exception who is out of control anyway.

And even Ramsey would not think he could hold Kings Landing by surrounding himself with sycophants and ignoring massive debts and the outside world. Only Cersei was silly enough to think that would work. She wanted power but when she got it she didn't have a clue what to do with it. This happens in the books and the show.

2) To a great extent it is simplified but in this episode it was made clear that at least one house was more scared of being flayed than they were of Jon and Sansa. So at least some of them have been cowed by Bolton barbarity and the fear of reprisals, so it has nothing to do with hating the Starks at all.

We have also seen that one of the big problems all the houses have is with their rulers being legitimate, and we see it again here. Despite the repeated evidence that being born within wedlock does not guarantee a good ruler, many still place value on it so they won't accept anyone who isn't. Being a bastard is still seen as bad for no other reason than pure prejudice, so with Rickon captured and Bran missing they see no legitimate Stark heir to follow. Nothing to do with hating the Starks either, just traditions people refuse to let go of.

Ramsey and Jon are changing that, but slowly. This is a common and even overwhelming theme in the books and the show. The fact that people do not want to give up their old ideas and grudges is why none of them can see the real threat, and only those who dare to think in new ways make progress.

And it is no coincidence that in the books and in the show it is the misfits who get things done, not the ones who believe in their "legitimate" right to rule and refuse to change their ways. They have different ways of making that point but it doesn't change that in this sense at least the show is absolutely true to the spirit of the books.

3) See previous point about Cersei's stupidity, which she was even called on in this episode. Doesn't sound like she can do no wrong to me, sounds like she is being recognised for the fool she is.

As for Tyrion, I think some of his policies may come back to bite him so I don't see him in the clear either. I don't think being stuck running a city while the queen invades Westeros was his gameplan. He wants to kill Cersei himself.

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42 minutes ago, The Great and Mighty Poo said:

Oh I hope my "don't believe me"  didnt come off as bad as it sounds with your reply. If It did my apologies. But yes I agree with you all the way. Though I tend to agree with the show bashers. However I still enjoy it as I'm a sucker for anything fictional. Anyway I'll stop derailing the thread now. 

All and all the episode was a 5 out of 10 stars. But it was a setting up the dominoes episode so maybe 6 out of 10 in that case. 

Well I could criticise any show thing for being rushed or badly executed but you always can. I also thought book 5 was a badly constructed mess, to be fair. The only bits that really bother me in the show are the bits they completely make up. With so much source material I don't see the need to invent things. Having things happen for different reasons, ok, even happening to different people, ok, but making up stuff that isn't in the books at all, like a lot of the Dorne stuff, I didn't see the need for that.

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7 hours ago, Stannis Lives said:

What happened to the entire Manderly story line?  If I remember correctly, they told Davos they were planning on fighting the boltons and they had a substantial army as one of the larger houses. They also had a navy. Not that that will help much at this point. 

Wasn't this only in the books?

 

so are they cutting it out?  They've definitely mentioned the manderlys in the show. Wouldn't it make sense for Davos to go to Manderly as he does in the books?  This is a perfect time to bring that storyline into the fold. 

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Phil P: Yes, I've read the books and know how Cersei really is. That' the point. All the stuff you mentioned, I don't see any of that on the show. Back in Season 4 I belive, we saw the Iron Bank in one episode, but where did that plotline go? When have we heard about Cersei giving the finger to the IB? And I got the impression this season that Cersei did want power oh yes, but she would have known EXCACTLY how to "handle it" if that pesky High Sparrow creature didn't magically appear (like the show repeatedly reminds us, it was *Cersei* who re-legitimized the FM Order--um, NOT) and those danged Tyrells weren't in the way, raining on the parade, doing stuff like seducing sweet innocent clueless Tommen away from Mommy.  Before this season, the Tyrells were kinda kewl, but now that they're in cahoots with the HS apparently...now all of a sudden it's like, OMG Cersei/KL  is in danger, let's off this HS punk for Westeros's sake. Like they came out of nowhere and just exploded into this socio-political threat. They didn't come from nowhere, not even on the show...but it's amazing how quickly we are being made to forget things.

 

Like the Red Wedding and how outraged we were, in spite of the fact that we knew Robb had screwed up.

Like how Sandor wasn't just about revenge against his brother, but finding his "little bird." Dave and Dan have pretty much killed that; Sansa stopped being anyone's "little bird" on, say, a certain wedding night. I wonder if they'll ever meet again (not impossible, since he was mentioned, sort of, in a Sansa and Brienne scene a few eps ago) but what will he think when he looks into her cold dead eyes. The face and eyes of a hardened woman....not the relatively unscathed--and certainly still maiden--young girl from the books whose first sexual awakening is unknowingly (to him) engendered by him. At the end of Book 5 Sansa has budding sexual feelings and dreams of the Hound kissing her get in the way as she goes about the Vale watching LF play politics with the Lord of the Vale, learning to flirt with boys her own age,  and as she becomes foster parent to SweetRobin. Dave and Dan have simply  killed one of the two great Beauty and the Beast "romances" of the books.

This is one of the reasons book readers were so upset and continue to be, about her rape in S5. The story of book Sansa and the Hound was one of the few tender interludes in a grim story. Tender on reflection of course. It's hugely important b/c in a story that descends into hell and everyone is out for their own skin, she teaches this cold killer to feel his first compassion for a human being; he could never have eventually felt about Arya the way he did in book and even more so in the show if not for her.  ("the wetness on his cheek that was not blood" etc.) She humanizes him, What he gave to her...well, her fantasies about knights. This may be strange, but there it is. We grasp for any human decency in this story no matter how small, and D/D have turned it into all revenge, revenge, revenge.

Which brings me to Jamie "I dreamed of you" Lannister. He says that to..Brienne, in the book. Well, if spoilers for future episodes be true, that "romance" is offically dead as well.

The "valonqar" part of the prophecy was signifigantly cut out of the show, which means Cersei will not be killed by her "little brother" (be that Jamie or Tyrion.) Nope, with the way things are going, they'll probably be the last 2 Lannisters alive and will die tragically and beautifully in each others'  arms.

 

Tyrion wants to kill Cersei? Really? I didn't know that. It's not  like he mentioned his "sweet sister" in any sarcastic kind of way since 5X01, I could be wrong, he barely mentioned her at all, and that phrase, never. Maybe he will in the book, but I find it hard to believe that the show's two Black Hole Sues would ever stoop to something so low and sordid..on TV at least.

 

See I'm differentiating between what's in the book and what future generations will remember as the definative version of ASOIAF. Yes, we may get all the books eventually, but this is a post-literate world. George can talk all he wants about GWTW book vs movie but I'll bet you 5 out of 100 people under 50 have read or will read GWTW, and that's just ONE book. No, you sat GWTW everyone knows it by the movie.

 

 

Edited by Morna The Maid

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I thought it was a decent episode. Mostly plot movement and setting up the last few episodes.

I like that people are just dropping everything because Jon and Sansa are asking them to. I mean, they did it once and lost a lot of people, only to feel like the person they supported betrayed them by letting Jaime escape and marrying a non Frey after swearing to do so. Yes, the Boltons are worse and helped kill northerners, but right now they are all basically at peace and recovering from the wars. They are all trying to rebuild their familes and are not going to just jump into another war. To me this is actually done really well.

Not sure how Arya and the waif is going to play out. Clearly the waif is trying to make Arya suffer which contradicts what Jaqen told her to do. Also, Arya was very nonchalant while walking about, has to be more to it than this. A gut stab and then falling into that water would be pretty close to fatal.

Cersei is getting more and more isolated and when she loses Tommen...burnt them all!!!!!

 

 

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10 hours ago, Robb_Warged said:

Cousin, the kid from House Arryn.  Robin?  I think she wrote her great uncle though.  I just watched the episode 8 preview again and Brienne delivers a letter to the Blackfish.  I'm thinking it's the letter Sansa wrote in tonight's episode

It's not. The letter is to Littlefinger asking him for his help in fighting the Boltons. That is why they had the scene where she sees the ravens that the Mormonts have.  The letter to the Blackfish she just handed to Brienne.

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10 hours ago, Joseph Weaver said:

Faceless men are the best assassins in the known world.. is the waif just in training? I don't get it.. 

Looked like she was trying to make Arya suffer first to me.

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9 hours ago, Darksky said:

They are working against time. They need to strike soon for Rickon's sake, they can't be moving around the North for months trying to rally more men. They can't risk it. They know that when Ramsay gets wind of what's happening, he will take appropriate measure.

I think Rickon is already dead. Ramsay has no reason to actually keep him alive. He just needs to say that Rickon is alive to get Jon and Sansa to come to him.

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5 hours ago, Ser Knute said:

Agree totally.  While there have been some decent moments, the season so far has been a lot of very little.  Almost every arc altered just enough to probably not be the same as the books so book readers aren't spoiled much if at all.

 

Couldn't disagree more. In my opinion, so far this has been one of their best seasons, my favourite since season 2.  The plot has been moving along a breakneck pace, much faster than the last couple of seasons.  

And Lady Ollena is the great. Her verbal takedown of Cersei this week was fantastic.

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