[Poll] How would you rate episode 605?

[Darkstream]

14 minutes ago, Baltan said:

So those of us who enjoyed it -and consider it a good show despite the flaws- we are all hypnotized by flashy effects and can't think for ourselves. Good thing your comments enlighten us all. Thank you so much for your consideration

You might want to read my previous comments on this board. I have only quoted and directed my comments to people making ridiculous and insulting acusations. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Darkstream

[Steelegrave]

6 minutes ago, Baltan said:

So those of us who enjoyed it -and consider it a good show despite the flaws- we are all hypnotized by flashy effects and can't think for ourselves. Good thing your comments enlighten us all. Thank you so much for your consideration

I don't think you take any comment as a generalization.  There are always things to appreciate in GoT.  The production value is top notch, costumes, filmography.  That is why so many of us are so frustrated with the moronic writing.

[Ser Harly of Southwell]

Things I hated -

Littlefingers teleporter

Summer's death

The genital wart

 

Things I was meh - 

Dany

Kingsmoot

Arya

Tyrion

 

Things I loved - 

Children of the forest/white walker reveal

"Hold the door!"

[Darkstream]

I am going to post a portion of a previous post of mine here, as it seems it is needed. 

 

...I've been accused of being a troll several times on these forums, and its pretty ridiculous. I don't want to hate this show. I want this show to be the great, iconic masterpiece that it once showed it had the potential to be. I would love nothing more than to come on here and give Got nothing but high scores and praise. Alas, that is honestly not how I see this show anymore. 

As I've stated several times before, I have absolutely no problem with people coming on here raving about how great Got is and giving high scores to something that I obviously feel doesn't deserve it. I respect your right to your opinion, and your right to rate the show as you please. 

What I ask is for that same respect. My dislike of this show in no way inhibits your ability to enjoy it. I have the same right to come on here and give this show a one, and voice my displeasure with it as you have to give it a ten. Please stop making baseless assumptions about other people's motives, just because you, for some reason, feel threatened because somebody disagrees with you. It would be real nice if I could come onto this public forum to share my opinion without several people calling me a troll, insisting that my opinion isn't valid, and acting like they are the reigning authority on how everybody is supposed to vote. 

[YOVMO]

21 hours ago, paulusar said:

Fantastic episode. Sadly there are still trolls here giving 1 out of 10. Stop watching if you don't like it that much. Best show on TV.

I find it odd that your natural assumption is that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. 

[Darkstream]

9 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I find it odd that your natural assumption is that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. 

Yup, I would like to add, stop coming to a forum designed to share and discuss personal opinions if you'd can't handle a differing opinion than yours. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Darkstream

[Unlady B]

1 minute ago, Darkstream said:

I am going to post a portion of a previous post of mine here, as it seems it is needed. 

 

...I've been accused of being a troll several times on these forums, and its pretty ridiculous. I don't want to hate this show. I want this show to be the great, iconic masterpiece that it once showed it had the potential to be. I would love nothing more than to come on here and give Got nothing but high scores and praise. Alas, that is honestly not how I see this show anymore. 

As I've stated several times before, I have absolutely no problem with people coming on here raving about how great Got is and giving high scores to something that I obviously feel doesn't deserve it. I respect your right to your opinion, and your right to rate the show as you please. 

What I ask is for that same respect. My dislike of this show in no way inhibits your ability to enjoy it. I have the same right to come on here and give this show a one, and voice my displeasure with it as you have to give it a ten. Please stop making baseless assumptions about other people's motives, just because you, for some reason, feel threatened because somebody disagrees with you. It would be real nice if I could come onto this public forum to share my opinion without several people calling me a troll, insisting that my opinion isn't valid, and acting like they are the reigning authority on how everybody is supposed to vote. 

Thank you for this clarification (this time without sarcasm).

And I completely agree, there's too little respect for different opinions around here sometimes (and that's the reason why I quoted you before). I know this behaviour is common here, but I'm glad you came back to clarify it.

[Darkstream]

4 minutes ago, Baltan said:

Thank you for this clarification (this time without sarcasm).

And I completely agree, there's too little respect for different opinions around here sometimes (and that's the reason why I quoted you before). I know this behaviour is common here, but I'm glad you came back to clarify it.

  I apologize if my remarks came off as sarcastic, none was intended towards you. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Darkstream

[lancerman]

2 hours ago, Steelegrave said:

Really?

George wrote Sansa being married and raped by Ramsey?

George wrote Jon being stabbed because he let the wildlings in?

George did that shit to Dorne?

I could go on for fucking days.  You're wrong.

Those fuckups have repercussions through the series that are not going to happen in the books.

George wrote a character who was passed off as a Stark daughter being married and raped by Ramsay.

George wrote Jon being stabbed.

George wrote the set up for a war between Dorne and the Lannisters.

Everyone always said it would have similar destinations and the journeys would vary a bit. I wouldn't expect not to be massively spoiled. If you have an ounce of ability to critically think you can tell why something was changed and what it means for the books. It's beyond obvious at this point.

[lancerman]

4 hours ago, Rhollo said:

A plot includes it's timeline. And timelines get messed up by teleporting characters, so the effect is there.

You might choose to willingly ignore those effects, but others might not.

It doesn't effect the plot. The timeline has always played fast and loose with converging storylines. LF's scene in the Vale could have easily taken place days/weeks before his scene with Sansa, since his last scene  before that was with Cersie in King's Landing many episodes ago.

Or a few weeks passed from the arrival of Sansa to when they got Bolton's letter, to when LF's letter arrived to Castle Black.

Or he just has a fast horse.

Either way it doesn't effect the plot. Unless you're argument is that the show become stretched out an unwatchable so you can cope with LF get traveling from the Vale to the North really fast. Which would actively disrupt the pacing of the show. Which in turn makes no sense.

[Steelegrave]

2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

George wrote a character who was passed off as a Stark daughter being married and raped by Ramsay.

George wrote Jon being stabbed.

George wrote the set up for a war between Dorne and the Lannisters.

Everyone always said it would have similar destinations and the journeys would vary a bit. I wouldn't expect not to be massively spoiled. If you have an ounce of ability to critically think you can tell why something was changed and what it means for the books. It's beyond obvious at this point.

Here come the insults.  Critical thinking also implies being able to have a discussion without ad hominem attacks.

George gave them a guide map to the major events.  How you get there is just as important as how they happen.  If you take a completely different path to the end, it is very likely that the story is nonsensical.  Which this has become.

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

OK I finally rated it. Solid 8. 

I took some points away for the pathetic portrayal of the direwolves. Seriously they get worse by the week. & maybe took a little away for the Kings Moot. It wasn't terrible & Alfie is great, Yara/Asha has definitely grown on me but it felt very rushed. To me it seemed as if all the Iron born are dim wits ready to be led by whoever can yell louder without a second thought to who would be a better leader. I'm not angry they didn't chose Yara, I just dislike that they dismissed her so quickly when many of them have watched her grow up, know what she is about, & you would assume some of them would have some support for her. That & the ridiculous casting of Euron made it feel a little bland to me. 

Other than that I thought it was pretty great. I loved the Dany/Jorah scene.

I'm ready for Arya to stop getting her ass kicked every episode but the scene at the play was great. I also enjoyed Jaqen telling her about the fm history. 

Sansa is becoming one of my favorite characters & I never would have thought I would enjoy Jon & her together this much but they are phenominal. Brienne & Tormund & Edd as LC! Haha! 

I'm thankful there were no sand snakes this episode because they are almost unbearable. 

I have not like the Tyrion/Varys scenes nearly as much as I thought I would but this episode was decent. 

I've never been a Bran fan. His story even in the books is boring to me. I don't particularly enjoy the CoF & their weird grenades & I was not happy at all to see Summer die & Bran not even bat an eye. I know he was else where but Summer is a part of him. I would have thought that would stir something in him. 

Hold the door. Hold the dang door! Crazy. I so did not see that coming. It was heart breaking on so many levels. Someone tell me it was actually Hodor keeping himself there & holding the door & not Bran forcing him to stay there & hold the door so I can feel a little better. 

What a powerful scene. Beyond a doubt some great story telling. I'm not trying to knock D&D but clearly GRRM's mark was all over this episode, especially this scene. Even the greatest story telling can be brought to life poorly though & IMO this was brought to life perfectly. 

 

[lancerman]

Just now, Steelegrave said:

Here come the insults.  Critical thinking also implies being able to have a discussion without ad hominem attacks.

George gave them a guide map to the major events.  How you get there is just as important as how they happen.  If you take a completely different path to the end, it is very likely that the story is nonsensical.  Which this has become.

 

Sorry that's like saying you won't be spoiled if you watch the Harry Potter movies. Every adaptation of any work of size beyond a 300 page novel will have some changes.

The bulk of the plot points are there. The big ideas and payoffs are there. So they had Jon stabbed before the Pink letter. Doesn't change the fact that the Pink Letter happened and Jon got stabbed. The fact that it was the wildings and not the Jon rebelling against the letter doesn't change that the important content happened.

Honest opinion, I think there's a lot of book fans (who don't have a high opinion of the show) who have been terrified that the series they devoted so much time was going to be finished by the show first, and now they feel the need to justify every change as it being too different to count as a spoiler.

Here are the facts

-Jon got stabbed

-Ramsay threatened Jon with the Pink Letter

-Reek helped Ramsay's bride escape. (so they used Sansa in place of another character, as long as they get her in position for wherever her Vale plot leads, the overall content is maintained)

-Tyrion eventually made it to Mereen while the Harpies revolted

-Cersie had her walk and is now awaiting a trial with Undead Gregor

-Dany got taken from the pit in Mereen and ran into the Dothraki

-Ayra got blinded training with the faceless men.

-Euron won the Kingsmoot

-Dorne is planning on having some type of war with the Lannisters.

-Sam went off to Oldtown

-Bran met the three eyed Raven in the tree.

Sounds pretty familiar to where the books I read left off. Are some things different? Yeah of course. They always were going to be. The show wasn't going to last 15 years to accommodate the sheer amount of content and detail George put in. It stopped trying once it got past the first and simplest book to adapt (and even their they took a few liberties). Of the major characters, Sansa is the biggest who is out of place, and her plot in the show is still flirting with Baelish and the Vale, so it probably won't be hard to pop her back into position. Then you have Brienne and Jamie and we both know why they aren't in position. And looks like Brienne might be heading to Riverrun anyways. And who knows maybe Jamie has to get the Blackfish to surrender as well. By the end of this most of us are going to have a pretty good idea of where the books are leading and where they will end up.

You probably aren't going to get some completely different ending with the majority of characters in different positions. Some will be, because that happens in most adaptations. But George didn't outline the end of his series to D&D for no reason.

[Steelegrave]

22 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Sorry that's like saying you won't be spoiled if you watch the Harry Potter movies. Every adaptation of any work of size beyond a 300 page novel will have some changes.

The bulk of the plot points are there. The big ideas and payoffs are there. So they had Jon stabbed before the Pink letter. Doesn't change the fact that the Pink Letter happened and Jon got stabbed. The fact that it was the wildings and not the Jon rebelling against the letter doesn't change that the important content happened.

Honest opinion, I think there's a lot of book fans (who don't have a high opinion of the show) who have been terrified that the series they devoted so much time was going to be finished by the show first, and now they feel the need to justify every change as it being too different to count as a spoiler.

Here are the facts

-Jon got stabbed

-Ramsay threatened Jon with the Pink Letter

-Reek helped Ramsay's bride escape. (so they used Sansa in place of another character, as long as they get her in position for wherever her Vale plot leads, the overall content is maintained)

-Tyrion eventually made it to Mereen while the Harpies revolted

-Cersie had her walk and is now awaiting a trial with Undead Gregor

-Dany got taken from the pit in Mereen and ran into the Dothraki

-Ayra got blinded training with the faceless men.

-Euron won the Kingsmoot

-Dorne is planning on having some type of war with the Lannisters.

-Sam went off to Oldtown

-Bran met the three eyed Raven in the tree.

Sounds pretty familiar to where the books I read left off. Are some things different? Yeah of course. They always were going to be. The show wasn't going to last 15 years to accommodate the sheer amount of content and detail George put in. It stopped trying once it got past the first and simplest book to adapt (and even their they took a few liberties). Of the major characters, Sansa is the biggest who is out of place, and her plot in the show is still flirting with Baelish and the Vale, so it probably won't be hard to pop her back into position. Then you have Brienne and Jamie and we both know why they aren't in position. And looks like Brienne might be heading to Riverrun anyways. And who knows maybe Jamie has to get the Blackfish to surrender as well. By the end of this most of us are going to have a pretty good idea of where the books are leading and where they will end up.

You probably aren't going to get some completely different ending with the majority of characters in different positions. Some will be, because that happens in most adaptations. But George didn't outline the end of his series to D&D for no reason.

You've gone off the point of the original topic.  I responded to somebody saying that because we think the writing is bad in the show and its going to hit all the major plot points when the books are finished are we going to say George is a bad writer.  I said George is going to get to those points with logic and reason not the nonsense that the show is selling.  

We all have analyzed and contemplated this story for 20 years.  We have a pretty good idea where its going anyway.  How we get there is not going to be spoiled by this drivel.  

[Darkstream]

39 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Sorry that's like saying you won't be spoiled if you watch the Harry Potter movies. Every adaptation of any work of size beyond a 300 page novel will have some changes.

The bulk of the plot points are there. The big ideas and payoffs are there. So they had Jon stabbed before the Pink letter. Doesn't change the fact that the Pink Letter happened and Jon got stabbed. The fact that it was the wildings and not the Jon rebelling against the letter doesn't change that the important content happened.

Honest opinion, I think there's a lot of book fans (who don't have a high opinion of the show) who have been terrified that the series they devoted so much time was going to be finished by the show first, and now they feel the need to justify every change as it being too different to count as a spoiler.

Here are the facts

-Jon got stabbed

-Ramsay threatened Jon with the Pink Letter

-Reek helped Ramsay's bride escape. (so they used Sansa in place of another character, as long as they get her in position for wherever her Vale plot leads, the overall content is maintained)

-Tyrion eventually made it to Mereen while the Harpies revolted

-Cersie had her walk and is now awaiting a trial with Undead Gregor

-Dany got taken from the pit in Mereen and ran into the Dothraki

-Ayra got blinded training with the faceless men.

-Euron won the Kingsmoot

-Dorne is planning on having some type of war with the Lannisters.

-Sam went off to Oldtown

-Bran met the three eyed Raven in the tree.

Sounds pretty familiar to where the books I read left off. Are some things different? Yeah of course. They always were going to be. The show wasn't going to last 15 years to accommodate the sheer amount of content and detail George put in. It stopped trying once it got past the first and simplest book to adapt (and even their they took a few liberties). Of the major characters, Sansa is the biggest who is out of place, and her plot in the show is still flirting with Baelish and the Vale, so it probably won't be hard to pop her back into position. Then you have Brienne and Jamie and we both know why they aren't in position. And looks like Brienne might be heading to Riverrun anyways. And who knows maybe Jamie has to get the Blackfish to surrender as well. By the end of this most of us are going to have a pretty good idea of where the books are leading and where they will end up.

You probably aren't going to get some completely different ending with the majority of characters in different positions. Some will be, because that happens in most adaptations. But George didn't outline the end of his series to D&D for no reason.

d&d's writing is exactly like your post, checking off a bunch of plot points on a list. It doesn't matter that you have everything checked if the way you accomplished it is implausible. A good story is more about how you get somewhere, than just being there. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Darkstream

[lancerman]

Well they were never going to get there the exact same way. Even if George released all the books. And quite frankly a part of that lies on George for having his last two books very un television friendly.

And it still comes down to the same point. Not every detail of the journey in the Harry Potter movies were the same way. Nobody says you can watch it without spoiling the books for themselves. Nobody says that about the Godfather. Nobody says that about thousand other adaptations with similar issues.

There's a reason a small percentage of fans of this series insist the opposite is the case. And it has to do with the situation that was created. If the books came first, we wouldn't have this exercise in people putting their heads in the sand about being spoiled.

Edited May 24, 2016 by lancerman

[Baelor_the_Blessed]

Speaking just for myself here, but my major beef with the writing is not the direction of the plot. It's the dialogue. This series went from Academy Award-level writing the first two seasons all the way down to Asylum-mockbuster level writing this year.

Well, that, and the casting of Euron. For the most part, the kingsmoot was well written and well acted. But when Euron stepped up, it was a train-wreck. It was almost like they prioritized getting an actor who looked like Theon over getting someone with actual acting ability. When he jumped up and said, "Where are my nephew and niece? Let's go murder them!" it was the most cringeworthy moment of the entire series. Bad acting combined with bad dialogue! Ugh!

Edited May 24, 2016 by Darren Allen

[Valetudo]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

George wrote a character who was passed off as a Stark daughter being married and raped by Ramsay.

George wrote Jon being stabbed.

George wrote the set up for a war between Dorne and the Lannisters.

Everyone always said it would have similar destinations and the journeys would vary a bit. I wouldn't expect not to be massively spoiled. If you have an ounce of ability to critically think you can tell why something was changed and what it means for the books. It's beyond obvious at this point.

You're doing exactly what we reproach the show of doing.

Let's take an example:

-a soldier kills a man during a war

-a sadistic murderer kills a man for fun

-an abused woman kills a man in self defense.

 

In the 3 examples, the result is the same: a man is killed. Do you think it's the same story just because of that? The reasons and the goals behind the actions are important too.

[Wendel Shoemaker]

Past few episodes have been 5/6's, this was an 8.

[lancerman]

3 minutes ago, Valetudo said:

You're doing exactly what we reproach the show of doing.

Let's take an example:

-a soldier kills a man during a war

-a sadistic murderer kills a man for fun

-an abused woman kills a man in self defense.

 

In the 3 examples, the result is the same: a man is killed. Do you think it's the same story just because of that? The reasons and the goals behind the actions are important too.

And you're making a disingenuous argument and is not comparable to the situation. You took 3 plots and applied 1 similar action to all 3 of them. The show took one plot and some of the details to them.

Book: Jon lets Wildlings occupy the land south of the wall, upsets the NW, gets the Pink Letter, gets stabbed, presumably is revived. Battle at Winterfell imminent.

Show: Jon lets the Wildings occupy the land south of the wall, upsets the Night's Watch, gets stabbed, is revived, gets Pink Letter. Battle at Winterfell imminent.

Results: Jon lets the Wildlings through, the Pink letter is delivered. He is killed and revived. A Battle at Winterfell is on the horizon.

That's very different than taking one action and applying it in 3 separate points.

Again by the logic you guys are using, virtually no adaptations could be classified as spoilers for their adaptive material. I'll be fair to you and say there are some storylines that divulge a lot further. Dorne being the biggest and the one instance where you could apply that example. And even then, Dorne is too much of an x factor in the books to know how much significance it has.

But for like 99% of the show, it's not even close to the example you used. If someone never read the books and you told them that they left off with, "Jon being stabbed by his brothers in the NW, Euron winning a kingsmoot and claiming he would marry Dany, Tyrion making his way to Mereen and trying to keep the peace in Dany's absence, Dany flying off on Drogon and getting killed surrounded by Dothraki after struggling with Harpies, Arya being blinded and training with the Faceless Men, Theon escaping Winterfell with Ramsay's bride, Ramsay threatening Jon Snow and the NW, Bran training with the 3 eyed Raven", which are all things that happened in the show.... there is literally no chance in hell that person wouldn't consider that a spoiler. Because it is a spoiler. Arguing it isn't because in a massive story that is thousands of pages many details were altered or out of order doesn't make it less of a spoiler.