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[Poll] How would you rate episode 606?

How would you rate episode 606?  

460 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      23
    • 2
      13
    • 3
      21
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      36
    • 6
      57
    • 7
      97
    • 8
      99
    • 9
      46
    • 10
      41


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10 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Because people have different opinions from you.

Yes....some people are wrong.

 

What d&d are doing to this story is an abomination and an affront on intelligence. 

Edited by YOVMO

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8 hours ago, Vastet said:



Bullshit.
 



Nothing you posted refuted my position in any way shape or form.
 



So not only are you wrong in every way, you have to copy me because you can't come up with your own comebacks.
 



Says the guy I've defeated on multiple occasions in multiple topics because he has no concept of logic or facts.
 



I'm right, you're wrong, end of story.

Pretty much what I expected, your not supporting your argument, your just blurting out "your wrong". And I'm not sure what you mean by I'm copying you. And ignoring facts is not defeating. 

Edited by Darkstream

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Just now, YOVMO said:

Yes....some people are wrong.

 

What d&d are doing to this story is an abomination and an afford on intelligence. 

Opinions can't be wrong, which is why I'm not going to argue your belief about the show being an abomination. I may not agree with it, but you have the right to have that opinion. Millions of people love the show, making you the minority. Saying that you're right and all of those other people are wrong is beyond arrogant.

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1 minute ago, Dragon in the North said:

Opinions can't be wrong, which is why I'm not going to argue your belief about the show being an abomination. I may not agree with it, but you have the right to have that opinion. Millions of people love the show, making you the minority. Saying that you're right and all of those other people are wrong is beyond arrogant.

It isn't about opinions though. There are serious plot issues, the logic is all skewed and d&d have essentially taken the richest tapestry of characters in the last 100 years and turned it into pop culture nonsense.


Yes, millions of people like it. Millions of people like the kardashians. Not sure which one is worse.

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5 hours ago, Vastet said:

So not only are you wrong in every way, you have to copy me because you can't come up with your own comebacks.

Ok, I see, I didn't even see that post. Anyway, I'm done, you are acting way too childish. 

Edited by Darkstream

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7 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

It isn't about opinions though. There are serious plot issues, the logic is all skewed and d&d have essentially taken the richest tapestry of characters in the last 100 years and turned it into pop culture nonsense.

Again, that is all your opinion. An opinion that isn't shared by many people.

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2 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Again, that is all your opinion. An opinion that isn't shared by many people.

But see, that's the problem. You say it is an opinion, but it is a fact. The fact that society has been dumbed down to the point where 1) it can accept this tripe and 2) it will make a fortune is really serious. 

 

There are 10 miles wide plot holes. That isn't an opinion. Logic needs to mean something.  I will leave it at that. Maybe one day when bran cares that hodor died, Benjen makes any sense whatsoever and Gendry finally gets to kinds landing we can figure it out.

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Pretty much what I expected, your not supporting your argument, your just blurring out "your wrong". And I'm not sure what you mean by I'm copying you. And ignoring facts is not defeating. 



You gave me nothing to argue against. None of my points has been refuted or challenged successfully. My last 3 or 4 responses have been parroting responses that claimed I was wrong without providing any substance to back up the claim. Come up with an argument and I'll defeat it or concede defeat. Simplycall me wrong or insult me and you'll get the same in response.

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But see, that's the problem. You say it is an opinion, but it is a fact.



No it isn't a fact. There are no huge plot holes. There's no inconsistent logic.

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10 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Again, that is all your opinion. An opinion that isn't shared by many people.

The issue with the show, while people's opinion are subjective, is that the objective criticism is a fact based on any literary standards. To say these issues with the show are only opinion is false. There are established rules and standards that can be used to judge a piece of literature objectively, d&d's writing fails miserably when judged by these. 

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36 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

But see, that's the problem. You say it is an opinion, but it is a fact. The fact that society has been dumbed down to the point where 1) it can accept this tripe and 2) it will make a fortune is really serious. 

 

There are 10 miles wide plot holes. That isn't an opinion. Logic needs to mean something.  I will leave it at that. Maybe one day when bran cares that hodor died, Benjen makes any sense whatsoever and Gendry finally gets to kinds landing we can figure it out.

 I've seen many posters cry plot hole for various scenes, when it is apparent they have no idea what a plot hole is at all. Plot holes are inconsistencies within the plot that goes against the logic already presented in the story. For instance, in sit coms, when a character has a sibling for one episode, but in later seasons, is an only child. There are a few holes in the series, but not nearly as many as people think, and I find them to be so inconsequential that they're barely worth mentioning. For instance, Cersei's saying that she and Myrcella were the only two to have lion necklaces, when we know that Sansa was given a third. If you find problem with that, fine, but to me, it doesn't really matter. There is no logical explanation for this inconsistency, and is therefore a plot hole. None of the examples you've provided are plot holes. Bran just awoke from a series of intense visions and discovered his uncle, long believed to be dead, is alive and just saved them. It's understandable, in that instance, that Bran wouldn't think to ask about Hodor. I'm not really sure what you mean about Benjen. After the Children saved him, he entered into the service of the Three Eyed Raven in order to stop the White Walker threat. As for Gendry, that doesn't even come close to a plot hole. The word you're looking for is loose end.

Edited by Dragon in the North

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26 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

The issue with the show, while people's opinion are subjective, is that the objective criticism is a fact based on any literary standards. To say these issues with the show are only opinion is false. There are established rules and standards that can be used to judge a piece of literature objectively, d&d's writing fails miserably when judged by these. 

I'm not saying the show is perfect, no show is. Every show has its own flaws and plot holes. Where opinion comes into play is whether these flaws impact your enjoyment of the series. 

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3 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I'm not saying the show is perfect, no show is. Every show has its own flaws and plot holes. Where opinion comes into play is whether these flaws impact your enjoyment of the series. 

I enjoyed it quite a bit right up until this season. Even with it's imperfections it was pretty great which accounts for my devotion to all things arcane. But at this point all the good stuff is being stripped away from the characters and the plot holes are getting to the level of the Shazam live action show from the 70's where bill baton and some old guy called the mentor would travel to towns in an RV and solve absurd crimes from the elders somehow managing to keep billy's identity a secret despite him always showing up to town on the same day as captain marvel and having the lightning bolt emblem on the from of the RV. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

 I've seen many posters cry plot hole for various scenes, when it is apparent they have no idea what a plot hole is at all. Plot holes are inconsistencies within the plot that goes against the logic already presented in the story. For instance, in sit coms, when a character has a sibling for one episode, but in later seasons, is an only child. There are a few holes in the series, but not nearly as many as people think, and I find them to be so inconsequential that they're barely worth mentioning. For instance, Cersei's saying that she and Myrcella were the only two to have lion necklaces, when we know that Sansa was given a third. If you find problem with that, fine, but to me, it doesn't really matter. There is no logical explanation for this inconsistency, and is therefore a plot hole. None of the examples you've provided are plot holes. Bran just awoke from a series of intense visions and discovered his uncle, long believed to be dead, is alive and just saved them. It's understandable, in that instance, that Bran wouldn't think to ask about Hodor. I'm not really sure what you mean about Benjen. After the Children saved him, he entered into the service of the Three Eyed Raven in order to stop the White Walker threat. As for Gendry, that doesn't even come close to a plot hole. The word you're looking for is loose end.

I don't find a problem with the necklace. As you say, that isn't important. I mean, it is annoying and shows a certain carelessness, but still fine I will let it go. How about how Arya's entire plot arc was just totally destroyed by adding compassion to her character that defies her very reason for being. How about having 5 minutes of talking about cousin orson and smashing beetles but  not adding Tyrion's whole motivation towards nihilism in the "where do whores go" plot despite the fact it was already set up by him telling the tysha story to shae and bronn. 


Benjen is insane. The children saved him by performing the same ritual that created the nights king? And ok, I kid about Gendry...but here is what bothers me. GRRM has given d&d source material that dreams are made of and d&d has basically turned it into shallow crapola. 

The character motivation for Tyrion, for Arya, for the tyrells, for tommen, for Jamie freaking lannister has been robbed. When is the last time on the show that Jamie showed the kind of depth he did when he was speaking with Cat or even when he was in the bath with Brienne. Now he is just a characature.

Why is kevan all of a sudden pro sparrows? Who is the lord of Casterly Rock? Why is Arya making a return to Arya stark when becoming nothing was literally the most interesting thing. And don't start me on Dany. Wtf? They took a genuinely interesting character, took away all the interesting parts and replaced it with guuuuurrrrrllll power. 

 

d&d are like kids who were left a fortune in a will and wound up going broke anyway, They have a huge budget, a huge following and source material for days. What do we get? 10 minutes of Braavosi theater recreating the red wedding and an arya who all of a sudden isn't dead inside despite that being her whole character arc.

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14 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

 How about having 5 minutes of talking about cousin orson and smashing beetles but  not adding Tyrion's whole motivation towards nihilism in the "where do whores go" plot despite the fact it was already set up by him telling the tysha story to shae and bronn. 

I agree that Tywin's death was more interesting in the books, but I still believe that his death worked perfectly fine in the show. And I personally didn't like Tyrion's "where do whores go" plot in the books, so I'm not sorry it was cut.

 

19 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

The character motivation for Tyrion, for Arya, for the tyrells, for tommen, for Jamie freaking lannister has been robbed. When is the last time on the show that Jamie showed the kind of depth he did when he was speaking with Cat or even when he was in the bath with Brienne. Now he is just a characature.

Can you elaborate on the bolded? Jaime's best season was season 3, but then again, after he leaves Brienne in the books, I didn't find him personally interesting again until his conversation with the Blackfish at Riverrun. 

 

21 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Why is kevan all of a sudden pro sparrows? Who is the lord of Casterly Rock? Why is Arya making a return to Arya stark when becoming nothing was literally the most interesting thing. And don't start me on Dany. Wtf? They took a genuinely interesting character, took away all the interesting parts and replaced it with guuuuurrrrrllll power. 

Kevan isn't pro sparow, he's pro Tommen, who happens to be pro sparrow. Kevan is loyal to his king. This was established last season. To be honest, I have no idea who the lord of Casterly Rock is at the moment. It was Kevan, but since Jaime was released from the KG, does lordship return to him? As for Arya, the point of her story was to hang on to her Stark identity. Seeing the play triggered some of Arya's emotions, which brought her out of her "no one" persona. 

 

26 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

d&d are like kids who were left a fortune in a will and wound up going broke anyway, They have a huge budget, a huge following and source material for days. What do we get? 10 minutes of Braavosi theater recreating the red wedding and an arya who all of a sudden isn't dead inside despite that being her whole character arc.

D&D were relatively faithful to books 1-3, but books 4-5 weren't as well received from readers and would have been a bitch to shoot. Some of their decisions are questionable, but for the most part, this season has been one of the show's best, imo.

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2 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I agree that Tywin's death was more interesting in the books, but I still believe that his death worked perfectly fine in the show. And I personally didn't like Tyrion's "where do whores go" plot in the books, so I'm not sorry it was cut.

 

It isn't Tywin's death that interests me it is what makes Tyrion. Tyrion loved and hated and feared his father. Killing him basically destroyed him. He still loves Tysha and the Jamie reveal broke his heart both about her and about the brother he worshipped. He loved Shae and he killed her for breaking his heart. Now he is in Essos with this deep depression, guilt, love sickness, drinking himself nearly to death, smart but afraid...but on the show what is he doing? Ruling Meeren in Dany's absence by getting prostitutes for former slavers and making deals with them. Yeah, ok, being a diplomat. So all of a sudden tyrion isn't fighting between being nearly suicidal and being a life long surviver?  He is just "i drink and i make decision" boring. And the worst part was they set it up perfectly but they needed to tell the beetle story instead. 

2 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

 

Can you elaborate on the bolded? Jaime's best season was season 3, but then again, after he leaves Brienne in the books, I didn't find him personally interesting again until his conversation with the Blackfish at Riverrun. 

I have always found Jamie fascinating. Like Tyrion and even like Tywin with Tytos he had a ton of issues that he had to work out for himself. He did what he thought was right in his own way and made some impossible decisions and best of all let everyone just think of him as the king slayer because screw them that's why. The Lannisters all fascinate me in the books. They bore the shit out of me post season 3 in the show.

2 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

 

Kevan isn't pro sparow, he's pro Tommen, who happens to be pro sparrow. Kevan is loyal to his king. This was established last season. To be honest, I have no idea who the lord of Casterly Rock is at the moment. It was Kevan, but since Jaime was released from the KG, does lordship return to him? As for Arya, the point of her story was to hang on to her Stark identity. Seeing the play triggered some of Arya's emotions, which brought her out of her "no one" persona. 

There is no way that Kevan's being pro tommen would take away his hatred for the zealots that took cancel way from him and made him a lunatic. Forget even the books, in the show cannon it was only 2 episodes ago that Kevan wanted to kill the high sparrow (in the book not so much lol) Arya's transformation to "no one" to me was much more interesting than her transformation back to her stark identity. That just seems like something audiences like. Arya is an incredibly sad character with an incredibly sad story. GRRM doesn't shy away from that and I think it is great. d&d run in the other direction much to the shows downfall.

2 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

 

D&D were relatively faithful to books 1-3, but books 4-5 weren't as well received from readers and would have been a bitch to shoot. Some of their decisions are questionable, but for the most part, this season has been one of the show's best, imo.

I can't deny that books 4-5 would have been hard to shoot because of how they were designed. The biggest problem with d&d is that it seems they decided to pander to mass appeal and basically write a sitcom rather than tell this amazing and engrossing story.

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This was the first episode that really made me consider whether or not I want to keep watching this show. 

It wasn't the worst one, and really it didn't do a lot wrong, it was just so boring. I'm so uncompelled by all the character actions this episode, makes me wonder if it's worth continuing to watch till the end of the season if all it's going to do is spoil TWOW in an unsatisfying way.

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7 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I'm not saying the show is perfect, no show is. Every show has its own flaws and plot holes. Where opinion comes into play is whether these flaws impact your enjoyment of the series. 

Oh I agree, I wasn't trying to infer that these criticisms mean you have to agree the show is bad. Just pointing out that these types of criticizim are not just an opinion. I have no problem with people giving a rating of a ten, even with the flaws, if they enjoyed it. This poll isn't meant to be strictly based on objective criticism, people have the right to vote based on their own feelings and enjoyment. 

Edited by Darkstream

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Westeros.org members voted and the mean average for this episode is 6.5. Better than I expected.

Considering the fan status of people here, in a better sample the mean should be lower than 5.

Edited by permaximum

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