Book vs. Show

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

On 24 May 2016 at 11:56 PM, HellasLEAF said:

haha, well said.

I have experienced this with other novels I have loved that went to the big (or small) screen.  

That ASOIAF box set is gonna get cracked open again one of these days.  I'm gonna do it.  This stuff is too good. 

Yep, agree with @SerJeremiahLouistark, book 3 is my favourite.  Although it will be very spoilered by watching the show it's still worth it.  Book 2, for me, was harder to get through but bear with it!  If you have trouble finding time, the audiobooks might work for you.

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

On 23 May 2016 at 4:53 PM, Maxxine said:

So I really liked this episode. I liked the explanation behind Hodor was cool and I thought it worked well for the show. It was a great scene and brought out a lot of emotions. However, I don't think that's how it happens in the book. The space-time continuum issue on top dragons, wargs, shadow babies, etc is just a lot. Plus there's bit of a plot hole (don't know if that's the exact word I want to use). No way Meera and Bran survive without Summer and Hodor and I think Bran at least survives until the end or at least until does something important to overall story before dying. I'm sure they show will find a way to make this work, but not in the book. Also, I'm still holding onto Hodor saw something in the Crypts of WF that caused the Hodoring. 

What do other people think?

I think (hope) we will get so much more from the books than they were able to give us on the show.  As others have said, it seems like Hodor/HoldDoor will still be the reason but it will play out differently.  I didn't mind the time loop but I hope if he does this in the book it will be a lot better explained.  

I noticed on a re-watch that the new red priestess tells Varys something along the lines of 'everyone is where they are supposed to be' and that what happened to him as a boy led to him being there now.  I thought this was reinforcing that Hodor was broken in the past so as team Bran could be where they are now - they couldn't have got there without Hodor carrying Bran and Bran probably couldn't have skinchanged him without his mind being damaged.  

I think, unfortunately, that we will still lose Summer and Hodor as well as Jojen & Meera in the book.  Bran's journey seems to be a re-run of The Last Hero - he set out for the frozen north to seek out the COTF to get their help in ending the long night and all of his companions and his dog and horse perished in the process.  I hope I'm wrong or that we at least get to keep them for a bit longer though!  In TV world, Bran will need some additional companions pretty sharpish if he's going to escape those wights. (I hope the possible spoilers on this are true!)

Spoiler

Strongly rumoured that Benjen Stark is returning next week 

Not very important and not sure if it's the same with anyone else, but I was surprised from the flashback that Hodor/Wyllis seemed to be older than Ned.  In my mind, he was maybe late 20s in the present.  Might be because he's the stableboy. 

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

I forgot to add, I agree that this seems very possible to involve the Winterfell crypts in the books.  There is much more attention given to them there than on the show.  Maybe there will be time & opportunity for Bran & co to travel underground from the cave to Winterfell and come out in the Crypts.  I can't see them travelling by land as winter has come in a much more extreme way in the book that even between the wall & Winterfell is mostly impassable.  There is mention of underground rivers, so maybe travel by water could speed things up.  

To avoid the time loop, Young Wyllis could have had some kind of premonition of 'hold the door' as a child when playing in the crypts or by the heart tree.  Often, prophetic abilities happen in the book as part of a 'rebirth' or near death experience (Patchface, Bran, Jojen), so maybe he fell while in the crypts or part of it collapsed on him or he fell in the godswood pool before he could swim, saw "hold the door" and was totally traumatised. Maybe a 3 eyed Raven told him he had to hold the door.  Looking forward to finding out 

[Ser Hyle]

On 5/23/2016 at 2:24 PM, Lord_Ravenstone said:

He told them Hodor's origins but I don't think the ending is how it's going to happen. 

Especially since we have no POV on Hodor while he gives his last stand unless it really is Bran warging into him and forcing him to that 

I interpreted it as Bran warging him and forcing him to hold that door. He clearly wouldn't do it on his own; every time there's been a traumatic event happening, he curls up into a ball and tries to disappear (eg. The tower near Castle Black, Craster's Keep, the Cave pre-warging).

[Lady Lark of the NorthWood]

7 hours ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

or he might just give up entirely. 

This could very well happen. I know he's now working on the Wild Cards series. The latest book is on pre-order from Amazon, due for release on August 23.

[Maxxine]

6 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

I think (hope) we will get so much more from the books than they were able to give us on the show.  As others have said, it seems like Hodor/HoldDoor will still be the reason but it will play out differently.  I didn't mind the time loop but I hope if he does this in the book it will be a lot better explained.  

I noticed on a re-watch that the new red priestess tells Varys something along the lines of 'everyone is where they are supposed to be' and that what happened to him as a boy led to him being there now.  I thought this was reinforcing that Hodor was broken in the past so as team Bran could be where they are now - they couldn't have got there without Hodor carrying Bran and Bran probably couldn't have skinchanged him without his mind being damaged.  

I think, unfortunately, that we will still lose Summer and Hodor as well as Jojen & Meera in the book.  Bran's journey seems to be a re-run of The Last Hero - he set out for the frozen north to seek out the COTF to get their help in ending the long night and all of his companions and his dog and horse perished in the process.  I hope I'm wrong or that we at least get to keep them for a bit longer though!  In TV world, Bran will need some additional companions pretty sharpish if he's going to escape those wights. (I hope the possible spoilers on this are true!)

  Hide contents

Strongly rumoured that Benjen Stark is returning next week 

Not very important and not sure if it's the same with anyone else, but I was surprised from the flashback that Hodor/Wyllis seemed to be older than Ned.  In my mind, he was maybe late 20s in the present.  Might be because he's the stableboy. 

 

3 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

I forgot to add, I agree that this seems very possible to involve the Winterfell crypts in the books.  There is much more attention given to them there than on the show.  Maybe there will be time & opportunity for Bran & co to travel underground from the cave to Winterfell and come out in the Crypts.  I can't see them travelling by land as winter has come in a much more extreme way in the book that even between the wall & Winterfell is mostly impassable.  There is mention of underground rivers, so maybe travel by water could speed things up.  

To avoid the time loop, Young Wyllis could have had some kind of premonition of 'hold the door' as a child when playing in the crypts or by the heart tree.  Often, prophetic abilities happen in the book as part of a 'rebirth' or near death experience (Patchface, Bran, Jojen), so maybe he fell while in the crypts or part of it collapsed on him or he fell in the godswood pool before he could swim, saw "hold the door" and was totally traumatised. Maybe a 3 eyed Raven told him he had to hold the door.  Looking forward to finding out 

The time loop is what is throwing me. It's just a little too complicated for my taste especially considering all the complicated things that are already in the book. It's just one of those things that I kinda understand in my head but couldn't explain to another person. So, I would need it to be very well explained in the books. With the evidence people have given I have resigned myself to the fact that the Hold the Door thing is probably what happened, but I'm still thinking it happened another way. I like your idea of the premonition. I also like the idea that one of the Stark caused whatever happened. Not in the way Bran did in the show, but more like a practical joke gone wrong

I could see Bran mirroring the Last Hero, but him being crippled just throws a wrench in the he's going lose all of his friends part of it for me. Unfortunately, Bran doesn't have the ability to fend for himself so without his friends he's dead too, so it's going to be hard to kill them off especially Hodor and Summer. This was my one small issue with the episode. Bran is even bigger in the show than the book, no way Meera can get very far with him by herself. Just like you said either they are going to have to last a lot longer in the books or he's going to have gain so more friends for this to work. I agree that the caves go to the WF crypts and if they go back that's going to be how they do it.

And I had the same thought about Hodor's age. I feel like he's much younger in the books. I have no way to prove it because I don't think it's mentioned. But I definitely thought 20s.

[the tower of albion]

Does anyone think Theon will take up Quentyn Martells story line?

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

Does anyone think Theon will take up Quentyn Martells story line?

Yep, I do in the sense that he'll be barbecued by a dragon.

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 23 maggio 2016 at 5:53 PM, Maxxine said:

So I really liked this episode. I liked the explanation behind Hodor was cool and I thought it worked well for the show. It was a great scene and brought out a lot of emotions. However, I don't think that's how it happens in the book. The space-time continuum issue on top dragons, wargs, shadow babies, etc is just a lot. Plus there's bit of a plot hole (don't know if that's the exact word I want to use). No way Meera and Bran survive without Summer and Hodor and I think Bran at least survives until the end or at least until does something important to overall story before dying. I'm sure they show will find a way to make this work, but not in the book. Also, I'm still holding onto Hodor saw something in the Crypts of WF that caused the Hodoring. 

What do other people think?

I didn't grasp it when I read the books (I just noticed it because I thought it was weird and there might be something there.. but I didn't know what) but 

Spoiler

"hoooodor, said Hodor, swaying. Hoooooodor, Hooooodor, hoDOR, hoDOR, hoDOR. Sometimes he liked to do this, just saying his name different ways, over and over and hover" (A storm of swords). => Hold the Door

 

[Slaysman]

On 5/26/2016 at 1:47 PM, the tower of albion said:

Does anyone think Theon will take up Quentyn Martells story line?

I suppose they do owe him that after his junk was chopped off. Besides if I had to be killed in the show I would want it to be by a dragon so there would be no speculation about my death.