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Maxxine

Book vs. Show

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So I really liked this episode. I liked the explanation behind Hodor was cool and I thought it worked well for the show. It was a great scene and brought out a lot of emotions. However, I don't think that's how it happens in the book. The space-time continuum issue on top dragons, wargs, shadow babies, etc is just a lot. Plus there's bit of a plot hole (don't know if that's the exact word I want to use). No way Meera and Bran survive without Summer and Hodor and I think Bran at least survives until the end or at least until does something important to overall story before dying. I'm sure they show will find a way to make this work, but not in the book. Also, I'm still holding onto Hodor saw something in the Crypts of WF that caused the Hodoring. 

What do other people think?

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https://ventrellaquest.com/2014/04/20/got-got/

Me:  I was thinking about your comment about wanting to be an elevator operator.  It’s clear to me now that “Hodor” is short for “Hold the door.”

Martin:  (laughing)  You don’t know how close to the truth you are!

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I'm thinking about the original post.  While D&D confirmed that Hodor is indeed Hold Door, and that's how Hodor meets his end, we don't know for sure that this is exactly the way that entire scene will go down.  Maybe it's just me holding out hope that Summer will still make it out though.  

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24 minutes ago, TexasDirewolf said:

D&D confirmed that GRRM told them about the Hodor origins and etc. This is how it will happen in the books.

He told them Hodor's origins but I don't think the ending is how it's going to happen. 

Especially since we have no POV on Hodor while he gives his last stand unless it really is Bran warging into him and forcing him to that 

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I just realized that there may not be a door at the cave in the book. In ADWD there certainly was no indication of a door anywhere. Furthermore, why would there be a door in such an ancient, primal place? The Children would not cut any of their precious trees just to make a door to a cave. So unless Bloodraven and/or other men who visited the cave installed the door, there should not be one.

So the scene and the Hodor revelation could very well take place in a different location. The Wall perhaps? Some long forgotten hall of the First Men?

However, I theorize that the cave is linked to a larger tunnel network extending for miles (possibly even connected to the tunnels that those wildlings led by Gendel and Gorne got lost into), and one exit is guarded by a door that leads to relative safety. Meaning in the book, we may get a more drawn out chase scene, nearly entirely in the dark. (especially since book wights don't move as fast as show wights)

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Meera and Bran will survive because the NK doesn't want them dead, he just wants to chase them back to the Wall so the magic barrier will go away when Bran goes past it (the way the magic protecting the COTF cave went away), and he'll be able then to take it down (i think that will be in the same fashion he cracked the ice in this episode).

Bran being dead will make it impossible for WW to cross the Wall, without the Horn of Winter or another magic weapon.

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Just how Important is Bran in the larger scheme. There is an entire 20 mins of an episode or so for Bran to realize that there are some lines even he should not cross. This will also make him more mature in thinking and no longer a child.

 Lastly imagine this escape scene in the books would be more fleshed out, more CotF, we would have probably read more of the nights king before / or may be we will read more of him through Bran in the books (instead of the baby Other as on season 4 i think)

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8 hours ago, TexasDirewolf said:

D&D confirmed that GRRM told them about the Hodor origins and etc. This is how it will happen in the books.

Its not the first time D&D have said something along those lines and either between a line of coke or a case of beer theyve taken what George has said and gone into bizzaro land with it. So, grain of salt.

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29 minutes ago, ricardoromell said:

Just how Important is Bran in the larger scheme. There is an entire 20 mins of an episode or so for Bran to realize that there are some lines even he should not cross. This will also make him more mature in thinking and no longer a child.

 Lastly imagine this escape scene in the books would be more fleshed out, more CotF, we would have probably read more of the nights king before / or may be we will read more of him through Bran in the books (instead of the baby Other as on season 4 i think)

I think Bran will prove to be monumentally important. Given just how disastrously he's screwed up (Bloodraven dead, Others have him marked, the Wall will come down), he has a lot to do to get back in credit! I think that he's the only person or being that can communicate with the Others, which may well prove decisive.

At least I hope it's that and not some tacky time-travel nonsense to alter plot-lines cheaply.

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That scene looked like it was for the most part straight out of the books.  Primarily since it seemed noticeably higher quality than some of the other things we have seen this season.  Though I do think it is altered somewhat in that I don't think Summer dies there in the books.

Spoiler

Instead I think it will be Jojen who dies in that manner.

 

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I think we'll get a far more powerful scene  in the book. GRRM gave them Hodor's origin but didn't tell them exactly under which circumstances he became Hodor. 

It'll probably be even more tragic in the books. 

 

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4 hours ago, ricardoromell said:

Just how Important is Bran in the larger scheme. There is an entire 20 mins of an episode or so for Bran to realize that there are some lines even he should not cross. This will also make him more mature in thinking and no longer a child.

 Lastly imagine this escape scene in the books would be more fleshed out, more CotF, we would have probably read more of the nights king before / or may be we will read more of him through Bran in the books (instead of the baby Other as on season 4 i think)

GRRM is still describing the scenery on the way to Griffin's Roost,  when do you think he'll get round to all of the above. 

I take no enjoyment in that. 

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Regarding Show vs Book in general, I think a lot of threads D&D ignored from the books are being brought back in their ham-fisted way, but at least it is being brought back.

Specifically the monumental change they made to the Sansa/Rickon storyline. With teleporting Littlefinger's arrival at Mole's Town, they effectively brought Sansa's arc back to the Vale and the Riverlands, which is where her powerbase in the books was always going to be. Sansa should not be in the North at all. But they are sticking to at least part of the true script in that Jon will need a trueborn Stark to rally the North behind, and that is likely where Rickon was going to come in in the books.

So in the books Rickon joins with Jon, instead of Sansa, and Sansa builds her influence in the Vale. And as we expected, the Tullys take the Riverlands back, resulting in the release of the Northern hostages, including the Greatjon.

So pretty soon we will have Jon rallying the North in Rickons name, while Sansa rallies the Vale. And the Riverlands are brought back into play as well, resulting in a three-fold North-Vale-Riverlands alliance once more by the time Daenerys arrives in Westeros.

 

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I read the 1st book all the way thought.  I really liked it.

I started the 2nd but then work, life etc.  The show is just so good (for me anyway).  So I've been strictly show since.  

It seams the book readers dislike most of the shows I am finding.  Only giving out faint praise.  To each their own I suppose.  

Not to sound pretentious but if I had more time I would definitely finish the books.  I am very sure they are great with so much more detail and backstory explanation.  

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1 minute ago, HellasLEAF said:

I read the 1st book all the way thought.  I really liked it.

I started the 2nd but then work, life etc.  The show is just so good (for me anyway).  So I've been strictly show since.  

It seams the book readers dislike most of the shows I am finding.  Only giving out faint praise.  To each their own I suppose.  

Not to sound pretentious but if I had more time I would definitely finish the books.  I am very sure they are great with so much more detail and backstory explanation.  

Indeed the first 3 are great books and the next 2 still good. But the story has diverged and slackened and the excerpts we have seen so far show no signs that the pace has quickened. 

So frankly a lot of the expectations about how it'll all be explained so wonderfully in the books doesn't bear much resemblance to the reality of what we've read in the last 15 years. 

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4 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

I think Bran will prove to be monumentally important. Given just how disastrously he's screwed up (Bloodraven dead, Others have him marked, the Wall will come down), he has a lot to do to get back in credit! I think that he's the only person or being that can communicate with the Others, which may well prove decisive.

At least I hope it's that and not some tacky time-travel nonsense to alter plot-lines cheaply.

yes, altering things in the past would be a horrible insult of a resolution. 

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1 hour ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

Indeed the first 3 are great books and the next 2 still good. But the story has diverged and slackened and the excerpts we have seen so far show no signs that the pace has quickened. 

So frankly a lot of the expectations about how it'll all be explained so wonderfully in the books doesn't bear much resemblance to the reality of what we've read in the last 15 years. 

Theon I? Alayne I? Mercy I?

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2 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

That scene looked like it was for the most part straight out of the books.  Primarily since it seemed noticeably higher quality than some of the other things we have seen this season.  Though I do think it is altered somewhat in that I don't think Summer dies there in the books.

  Hide contents

Instead I think it will be Jojen who dies in that manner.

 

"Someone asked him about the show's Hodor name reveal. He said that his name reveal in the books will differ in the context and how it happens. So while the name will still mean the same thing (Hold the Door), it will be very different from the show's reveal. He said he came up with the name idea in 1991 and seemed depressed that the show got to reveal it before he did. He said he had no one to blame but himself for his slow writing. He joked about how jealous he was of Stephen King's writing speed. He said he seemed to release an entire book every time he's only just written about a chapter and a half."

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