Heresy Branch Office E05

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, Matthew. said:

If this is actually what's happening, I hope they reveal it by ending an episode (a season?) with the Wall collapsing, and Jon's eyes suddenly going blue as he falls under the NK's sphere of influence. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much in the way of stakes or consequences attached to distinguishing between multiple types of resurrection.

I think I'd be inclined to offer a very slightly different interpretation, namely that the blue eyed lot are those transformed using dragonglass and those without, ie; Jon and in the mummers' version at least, Benjen, have been raised without using it.

In this context its worth comparing the lighting of glass candles with the light in Thistle's eye sockets

[Black Crow]

13 minutes ago, Juggzy said:

As a newcomer to this forum, I have found this thread enlightening and entertaining.  I would really appreciate it if you would keep it going in the episode 6 subforum, although I do understand the reasons that you may prefer not to do this. 

Largely its unnecessary. Come across to the Dance with Dragons side of the forum and you'll find the mother thread with much more discussion like this.

[Juggzy]

1 hour ago, Black Crow said:

Largely its unnecessary. Come across to the Dance with Dragons side of the forum and you'll find the mother thread with much more discussion like this.

Thank you - I will read these threads (seems like a months-long project).  I do have a question, and from reading the introduction to the heresy threads on the other forum, it seems like my postulated 'heresy' (only postulated) might not be suitable for the actual heresy threads as it is to do with the Lannister - Targareon hook up.  I'll ask it here and wonder if you could tell me where to look to find people presenting arguments for and against it.  It struck me, seeing part of next episode, and reading arguments about Dany going mad like Aerys, that the only person who ever said that Tyrion isn't Tywin's is Tywin himself; in fact, one of the Lannister aunties, in the books, states that Tyrion is Tywin's true son.  If you look at Jaime and Cersei, there is circumstantial evidence linking them with the Lannisters: Incest, blonde hair, twins, and it does seem likely that Cersei will go mad in a similar fashion to Aerys.  I know that the dates in the books probably don't match up for Jaime and Cersei, but ... . I have only read the books twice, and the second time incompletely, and I was wondering if anybody else had dug into this before I went back and read them all again, paying attention this time. 

[Black Crow]

8 minutes ago, Juggzy said:

Thank you - I will read these threads (seems like a months-long project).  I do have a question, and from reading the introduction to the heresy threads on the other forum, it seems like my postulated 'heresy' (only postulated) might not be suitable for the actual heresy threads as it is to do with the Lannister - Targareon hook up... 

Its been discussed on the board although I can't quote chapter and verse some other kind soul may do so. In the meantime bring it across to Heresy, but try to justify it not just in terms of evidence but how you think it might be relevant to the outcome.

[Juggzy]

1 minute ago, Black Crow said:

Its been discussed on the board although I can't quote chapter and verse some other kind soul may do so. In the meantime bring it across to Heresy, but try to justify it not just in terms of evidence but how you think it might be relevant to the outcome.

Thanks!

[House Cambodia]

Ooh, how about a juicy heresy double plus ......

 

Samwell Tarley will become Azor Ahai.

 

The show has him stealing HEARTsbane and running off with dear wife Gilly Gilly. He's due to spend time in the Citadel - will he descend into arcane arts and learn the lore of Lightbringer? What are the chances of Heartsbane being Lightbringer?

[Matthew.]

6 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

The show has him stealing HEARTsbane and running off with dear wife Gilly Gilly. He's due to spend time in the Citadel - will he descend into arcane arts and learn the lore of Lightbringer? What are the chances of Heartsbane being Lightbringer?

That stood out to me during the episode as well, and my take away is that it might be GRRM foreshadowing how the swords themselves are forged, rather than specifically identifying Heartsbane as Lightbringer.

After the imagery we've seen in the show, and revisiting the Nissa Nissa myth about how "all of her warmth went into the blade," I'm thinking maybe the sacrifices to specifically create Valyrian steel weren't human. Dawn and Valyrian steel are alike in durability, but not appearance, as Valyrian steel is supposed to be so dark that it's almost black.

Dragon blood is described as black and smoking, so I'm thinking that the reason Valyrian steel commands such a high price - and why no smiths anywhere can replicate it, even with blood sacrifice - is because each blade had to be quenched in the heart of a dragon, to drink all of their unnatural warmth.

[koststerg]

In the scene of the creation of the first White Walker we see a weirwood tree surrounded by vertical stones in a summer-spring environment. Later when Bran is marked by the Night King and the magic of the cave is broken we see that the vision of Bran takes place next to a dead weirwood tree surrounded by vertical stones in a heavy winter environment. We also know from the first vision of Bran that the heart  of Winter is surrounded by stone spikes (vertical stones??). Did we just see the hart of Winter? Is it a specific place or a sick weirwood tree containing the magic of the Others? (At least in the show version of the story)

[Black Crow]

4 hours ago, koststerg said:

In the scene of the creation of the first White Walker we see a weirwood tree surrounded by vertical stones in a summer-spring environment. Later when Bran is marked by the Night King and the magic of the cave is broken we see that the vision of Bran takes place next to a dead weirwood tree surrounded by vertical stones in a heavy winter environment. We also know from the first vision of Bran that the heart  of Winter is surrounded by stone spikes (vertical stones??). Did we just see the hart of Winter? Is it a specific place or a sick weirwood tree containing the magic of the Others? (At least in the show version of the story)

As I recall, in Bran's [text] vision, the dreamers were impaled on spires of ice rather than rock.

While I'm still inclined to go for a connection in real terms between the ancient sacrifice Bran sees in both the textual vision and the mummers vision, I strongly suspect that in the mummers version the weirwood may be the one above the cave and that the Heart of Winter and Heart of Darkness are themselves one and the same.

[koststerg]

23 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

As I recall, in Bran's [text] vision, the dreamers were impaled on spires of ice rather than rock.

While I'm still inclined to go for a connection in real terms between the ancient sacrifice Bran sees in both the textual vision and the mummers vision, I strongly suspect that in the mummers version the weirwood may be the one above the cave and that the Heart of Winter and Heart of Darkness are themselves one and the same.

You are right, it says " blue-white spires of ice".

[LordImp]

Just read through the entire tread and saw a lots of good thoughts on the battle of Dawn. So i just want to add my opinion on this . 

 

I think during the long night the fire champion Azor Ahai invaded Westeros with his fiery army , dragons , red priests etc and that the White walkers was essential in stopping his conquest of Westeros. But that Azor Ahais fire was also essential in stopping the WW wave. So we basically have ice and fire together to stop the corrupted versions of ice and fire: WW and dragons . 

[Millimidget]

On 5/26/2016 at 3:35 AM, House Cambodia said:

I'm speculating that a small minority of Andals brought R'hllor worship to Westeros even though the Faith of the Seven was the version that took hold.

I don't believe it was the Andals. They're the only major religion without any reference to the Long Night, but we know that even the Rhoynar, more or less directly south of Andalos, experienced the Long Night. However, I do believe there were more than just the three "major" migrations to Westeros. For example, I suspect the Andals migrated over thousands of years in multiple waves.

I've always been leery of connecting Azor Ahai to Westeros. For example, I haven't seen any evidence that the Last Hero and Azor Ahai are the same figure. But I strongly suspect that the ironborn are one of the offshoots of Azor Ahai.

[Millimidget]

On 5/31/2016 at 11:54 AM, Matthew. said:

That stood out to me during the episode as well, and my take away is that it might be GRRM foreshadowing how the swords themselves are forged, rather than specifically identifying Heartsbane as Lightbringer.

I think that's one element the legend of Azor Ahai is meant to convey. He forged the first Valyrian steel, and as with all magic, and especially all powerful magic, it requires a (human) blood sacrifice.

But for the show, there's a good chance that's Lightbringer.