Dinner with GRRM - what should I ask?

[WolfQueenArya]

9 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@Walda I finally have it ready. I put it under the spoiler tag because it is long. I do hope you enjoy and feel free to ask anymore questions of you have them. Oh, and pardon the difference in formatting. I thought I had it all the same in word, but when I moved it here it changed again. It is a compilation of my recorded and handwritten notes from each event I was at.

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The Donation Dinner on Thursday, May 26, 2016: *quick note: anything that I “quote” means it was a direct quote from George as he said it. His words, not mine.

 

I knew another poster here was going to attend the dinner, so we agreed ahead of time to meet in person. Through the rest of the convention, she and I attended most panels and readings and such together. I will only name her if she agrees to it and as of this writing I haven’t had a chance to ask her yet.  Preston Jacobs was there, but I didn’t know it at the time.

 

1.    I was at table 5, which the way it fit in the small room sat me right next to table 1 as well! Of the other five at my table, only 1 has read the books, two are an older couple there to support Balticon, and the other is there and he is the MC of the event and the one to do the official GRRM interview on Saturday.  He name is Mark and he and I are getting along famously!

 

2.    GRRM described himself as a “sex positive feminist”.

 

3.    GRRM just sat with my friend and he is talking about SpiderMan  and Greenwich Village.

 

4.    My friend asked him about Gendry and Arya meeting back up and when will Arya get her moonblood to which GRRM answered “soon”… and GRRM had an interesting response to Arya and Gendry meeting back up. I will let her tell you the answer. But I do know he said of Arya and Gendry that, “I’ll visit them again.”

 

a.     A note from my friend about something that happened at her table: “Also the guy sitting next to me brought up the Hodor elevator story to him. He said he didn't remember it, but everyone at the table still had a good laugh about it.”

 

b.    GRRM talked about Dorne! He wasn't exactly dissing the show, but he didn't have anything good to say about it. One guy talked asked if season 6 would spoil the books for him. Something like "Don't think what happens in the show will happen in the books, the show is completely different. The books will be nothing like that." You could really feel the dislike he had for it. 

 

5.    George’s assistant Joanna (Jo) sat with us and explained and few things about George and stuff… but then she and I got to talking about lots of other stuff and I grew to love her very quickly. Lenore cam ea round and sat with George during the dinner. Parris was feeling ill.

 

6.    George just sat right next to me. He was crazy nice and shook my hand … but not before noticing and complimenting me in my silver wolfhead necklace pendant. The conversation started with his work at the wolf sanctuary that is something he is very passionate about. That was the one time his tone changed and became very serious. He went on about the sanctuary and how sometimes humans can be irresponsible with what they think is "cool" by having wolf-dog hybrids and how that is worse for these poor animals. There was passion there. 

 

7.   

 

8.    GRRM is describing the maesters and how he wanted them to have a lot of flower knowledge and to be very clean. 

 

9.    Then someone at my table told him I like his story Meathouse Man and he turned to me and told me I was a freak!!! And laughed and then told me how he came about writing Meathouse Man and it was cool.  I am also a writer and could appreciate the writing process down to the editor and publisher.

 

10. And he said fuck or fucking about 50 times 

 

11. At The dinner, his assistant Joanna told me his other assistant who does the artwork for some of the graphic novels said she was working on something "super secret". And then when George was at my table a little later, he told me that he was working on more stories that included Bloodraven in them. I was first excited for the possibility of She-wolves of Winterfell in the D&E stories, but then I was like duh, it's probably Winds and his art assistant was working on something else. 

 

12. My first “big” question I asked was, “who had a better chance of getting together and that there is no right or wrong answer to this (hahahaha), Jon and Val or me and Bloodraven.”

 

a.     That is when he laughed and said I was weird and then said, "Bloodraven is half a tree," to which I replied, "So? I’m a gardener and the wood jokes write themselves."

 

b.    Then he paused, took a minute to think, and told me he is writing more with Bloodraven in it (to which I died )

 

c.     Then he paused again and said "Jon and Val, huh? That would make a good fit" 

 

13. I had dessert with George and 5 other people at my table. GRRM sat directly next to me on the right. I had the “Reach Pear Tart” and GRRM had the lemon cake.

 

14. GRRM was at my table and we started  talking a little about Targaryen history and GRRM mentioned he uses Elio to help with the details he can't remember (something we all know) but then GRRM mentioned that Elio has a guy he knows that lives in Scotland that helps with "other" things.

 

15. My other “big” question to him was about my Targ/Non-Targ theory.

 

a.     Curiously enough, when I asked him at the Thursday dinner about my Targ/Non-Targ first born babies, he replied "interesting", then told me, "you know alot".

 

b.    GRRM then started to diverge the conversation in to the Blood&Fire book, and that he would have to "go back and look at his notes." Regarding my Targ theory. This may be a way he avoids answering questions that could be spoilers.

 

c.     This is where he mentions using Elio to help him remember and link details… to which I responded, “interesting as well.” He laughed.

 

GRRM/ John Picacio interview Saturday, May 28, 2016:

 

1.    the interview ended a few minutes ago and GRRM did make mention at how when you see actors at other cons, which are considered shows as opposed to fan conventions, that the guests and show actors are there because they are paid (does that equal employee?) There were a few other subtle tidbits in there as well and if this convention gets a video of the interview up, then it will be towards the end.

 

2.    George just answered the Picacio question, “What part of Kong are you working on right now?’,  and GRRM answered that he was working on a Cersei chapter when he left home the other day and he still has a ways to go. 

 

3.    He is probably closer than he thinks because when he wrote Game, he thought 1200-1500 pages wasn’t enough and it was his editor that told him to scale it back to the now finished size. However, GRRM did add, “I still have a ways to go. I shouldn’t be here right now…”

 

4.    GRRM and Picacio both made the joke about "you need to pay the artist" and such regarding general fan fiction. And then GRRM said he has issued some sub-licenses to things like art and games, etc. GRRM also mentioned that HBO owns the rights to the exact likenesses of the tv version of the story, meaning, no art can be made where Dany looks like Emilia. He was very careful in avoiding a real link in feeling between him and HBO even though he was asked about it twice. Then GRRM mentioned, and Picacio joined in, how GRRM knew the show would overtake the books. Not too much new. 

 

5.    GRRM did say how he hates when movies stray too far from the books. 

 

6.    An audience member asked GRRM, “As the Game of Thrones TV series moves farther away from the book, has this changed or done anything to your views on fan fiction?

 

a.     GRRM’s Reply: “No. I continue to be opposed to fan fiction because it’s copyright infringement. HBO, of course, gets around this by paying me large dump trucks full of money. So, if you would like to arrive in front of my house with a large dump truck full of money, I may consider allowing you to do some fan fiction. But I won’t consider it fan fiction then. I would consider it a sub-license. I make many sub-licenses to people who do games and card games and coins, etcetera. But Harlan Ellison always had this rule that he has been very vocal about over the years. You can find his diatribe about it on YouTube. And I think John also feels (one must) pay the artist, because this is how we make our living.”

ASOIAF fan talk and (separate thing) ASOIAF trivia:

 

7.    My friend and I attended both. We were busy!!!

 

8.    The trivia was awesome and she and I were killing against the other groups of four or more. Woo-hooo to us!

 

9.    The fan conversation was boring. Sorry. Too much whining about things that are barely ASOIAF related.

 

Gender/Sexism in GoT Panel Saturday, May 28, 2016:

 

1.    It was up and down I guess. The first thing they talked about was Loras and Renly acting like gay stereotypes, they got that right.

 

2.    There was one guy who talked about the Sansa v. Jeyne thing, really ripping into the show for not having the northern lords and no one caring that Sansa was being raped. That was a highlight.

 

3.    And then a female panel leader claims that no one in the book universe or even the readers care that Jeyne Poole was tortured and raped… she was not important to anyone and readers have no sympathy for her.  I just found my quoted notes… the panel lady sayd, “"no one cared for Jeyne (Poole)" I just found a pic of the panelist https://twitter.com/hannahetoile/status/736681991534465024

 

a.     I will admit that I lost my willpower and shouted “NO” and then went on to explain the motivations Mr. Benioff and Mr.Weiss used to get Sansa in with Ramsay and so on. I actually had people come up to me after this panel ended and thanked me for speaking up. I was shocked, yet happy with that.

 

b.    The guy on the end in the panel was telling the crowd how empowered Sansa was after her rape.

 

c.     One audience guy made a point to say in the books everyone around fArya/Jeyne knew who she was and even heard her crying and such.

 

4.    And then there were other guys asking why no one cares that the males are mutilated, etc. 

 

5.    Honestly, one hour does not do that topic justice. This panel did not "kill it" because the girl on the end only hopped in last minute because they were asking for panelist. The focus went all over the place but rape was a focus.  

 

6.    That said, it was nice to see a crowded room with that many people thinking and talking about it. 

 

 

 

Saturday evening at a bar:

 

7.    Me and another poster here got to meet and hang out with Preston Jacobs for a while over a few beers. He was super nice, about 6”6” tall!

 

8.    I don’t know many of his theories at all, but we talked about some, to which I agreed to some and disagreed to others. However, he was kind enough to also listen to my theories and we had great, civil discussions on both.

 

9.    at the after party bar where we met Preston Jacobs and a few other really nice book fans, just before we left, a guy recognized us from the gender/sexism panel and praised our argument/statements we made. I guess he wasn't impressed with the main three panel players either?

 

Liars Panel Sunday, May 29, 2016:

 

1.    The Liars panel is hilarious. GRRM just admitted he once received a nipple piercing gift certificate as a gift and that he knows all the words to Petticoat junction and he just sang a bit 

 

Book signing Sunday, May 29, 2016:

 

2.    Since I was at the donation dinner I had a very low number to get my book signed. I was #6.

 

3.    When I approached GRRM he remembered me right away from the donation dinner. We talked for a minute and he really liked my Bloodraven “fan” t-shirt I have printed up special for the signing. He once again told me I was, “weird,” and, "nobody likes Bloodraven." 

 

4.    I had GRRM sign the one art page in Knight of Seven Kingdoms book that shows Bloodraven (notice the theme of my personal favorite here?). He also signed the inside cover of my book = two signatures in one book !!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Marin reads Damphair! Sunday, May 29, 2016:

 

1.    Not much to add here that you have not already seen online by now.

 

2.    The a/c was cranked in the room. I was cold L

 

3.    My con friend and I were also second row back, three to the right from center. Great Seats!!!

 

4.    I’ve never been much of an Iron Islands type fan, but holy shit, this was awesome and renews my respect for GRRM’s work.

 

 

 

Episode 6 viewing Sunday evening:

 

1.    George never showed, but the other authors. Guests of honor did and they sat in the back row.

 

2.    One thing I have noticed tonight is that while the opening "look back" scene was on, and then the opening credits, people gave little woo-hoo's and claps to their favorite actors. I decided I would clap and give a little woo-hoo to GRRM's name when it went up in the opening credits (I mean , he IS Guest of Honor at this convention). I gave a respectable woo-hoo and a few people joined in... but when D&D's name came on screen, lots of people shouted big WOO's and waved their hands around like crazy even though the same ones were silent for George.

 

3.    Reactions after the episode

 

a.     People were confused about Sam taking Heartsbane. It seemed out of character for him to do so.

 

b.    Amanda Peet was talked about (Benioff’s actress wife) and apparently, people do not like her. Typecast for being a b*tch.

 

c.     Dany on Drogon seemed random and a repeat of previous seasons.

 

d.    Others loved Dany on Drogon.

 

e.     People praised Sam for sticking up against his father.

 

f.      Where is George?

 

Kaffeeklatsch (Coffee Talk) Monday, May 30, 2016:

 

My con friend and I attended a kaffeeklatsch (coffee talk) with George and about 8 other people. It lasted about an hour and a half in a very small, private room that overlooked Baltimore's inner harbor (interpret that as you will). The first half of the talk was boring because some woman bombarded the conversation with her tales of living in China and golf and how golf pays her bills and China and golf. The rest of us realized we would have to just cut her off if we were going to talk about anything else. And so we did. I do have a recording of the talk, but can't get the file small enough to share easily. I did start to take written notes as he said certain things as to not forget the specific phrasing.

 

The funny stuff:

 

The two tables were pulled close together and GRRM sat in the middle of the two with me on his right, and Joan Jett in front of him. We almost did not make it in because the sign-up was limited and there was zero information to be found on how and where to sign up. We had a leprechaun on our side that morning.

 

At one point during a book recommendation, George started talking about sword fighting and how Hollywood gets it wrong. At this point he was physically demonstrating how to hold and wield a sword or shield. He then held both of his hands up and pretended he had two swords. This was all during his talking points about how Hollywood is very inaccurate at sword fighting. Well, during his physical demonstration at how clumsy holding two swords would be, he accidentally bumped my foot and and uncrossed my legs for a brief second. He never said "two swords looks awful", but it was odd and curious how he decided to pretend he had two swords to demonstrate his point. (I am never washing my foot again!!! )

 

The books or authors he recommended were The Last Kingdom by Bernard Cornwell (that may just be the show name based on the books), and the book Aspects of the Novel.

 

The serious stuff:

 

My con friend asked about the Jon/Arya relationship again and brought her (impressive) Game book that had all of her references marked out with little flags. She brought up the Ygritte connections to Arya that Jon saw in her. George did not directly answer yes or no if there would be anything romantic between the two.

 

He did say, despite what readers see as clues to a romantic relationship between Jon/Arya in the books themselves, he did not confirm this so easily but inferred that what Jon saw in Ygritte was a "comfort" level of femininity (not his exact words, just the jist).

 

1.    Instead, George said he was "pissed" that the outline was posted in the office building and that someone took photos and shared them. He said it was a letter for him and the publisher only. He was very firm when telling this and it showed on his face.

 

2.    He then said that he is not good with writing outlines, making book deadlines, and that often in outlines he was "making shit up", and "characters changed along the way". Side note: I know he said other things in past interviews, so interpret this as you will. * “quoted” words are his words exactly.

 

I asked him about my Bran/Wood dancers/Pinocchio theory. I pointed out the seemingly heavy influence Pinocchio has in the Bran storyline and he replied, "Interesting."  He asked if I saw the Disney movie because that is his "favorite" Disney movie and how "dark and disturbing" it is.

 

1.    He asked if I ever read the book. I answered "yes, as a kid and I love the movie too." He said he never read the original story... but then two or three sentences later he talked about the differences in the book to movie and gave quotes and examples from the book story?!?!

 

2.    George mentioned how Pinocchio at the time, did not want a conscience and smashed the cricket for trying to give him one.  He started to relate Bran to Pinocchio when someone cut in.

 

3.    I do believe this was some sort of diversionary tactic because I may have been on to something. And then as he paused and was thinking of the next part of his answer, some other woman cut in to ask about how Shakespeare influenced him. (By the way, this Shakespeare question was asked at least two other times at public discussion panels already )

 

Oh, and the woman who went on and on about China and golf and golf in China also asked him WHEN WILL WINDS BE OUT????  George did not like that question, gave the standard answer and the meeting soon wrapped up after that. Every person who went to Balticon was made aware either in email, other print or verbally to NOT ask this question.

 

He went straight from talking about the references in the actual books, to the "differences" in the outline from then to now. He did say that he still knows who sits the iron throne and the end game of the main 5, but also included Sansa, but did not give any details (for obvious reasons).

 

 

 

After the Coffee Talk just outside the room:

 

1.    My friend asked about Arya and Jon again. This time GRRM gave some very pointed replies:

 

a.     Friend: Ok, if you foreshadowed something in the first book, like, really cleverly hidden, would you then follow through on that hint? For sure?.. GRRM: Well, this goes with what I said before, the story changes and expands as I write. I wish I was able to go back and make revised drafts, but that's not giong to happen. (He said way more than this, but this summarizes it. )

 

2.    She asks about the hints for Jon/Arya in the second and third book, the comparing Ygritte and Arya, which wouldn't be there if GRRM had made up the romance for the outline.

 

a.     "You know, I don't think it's a reference for that [for romance]. It's a reference to a certain physical type, and  a certain indication of what Jon finds admirable. It's like someone who reminds you of, you know... Other people might be put off by this, you know, hair that looks like small rodents have been living in there."

 

b.    GRRM finished (in the hallway now) by saying that he "wished some past things weren't such strong foreshadowing," and that he "wished some new things had stronger foreshadowing then." 

 

 

 

Overall, I had the most amazing weekend. I was tired as hells come Tuesday which is part of my reason for the delay in writing this up.

 

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

 

Thank you for posting! It was great reading about your experience with George and Balticon in general. You were really fortunate and lucky! What do you think he meant with the whole Jon/Arya thing? It's like he wants to ignore all the foreshadowing but he has kept it up even in book five! I mean Jon 'dies' for (who he thinks is) Arya! His last words were stick them with he pointy end! ... I hope he was just answering really carefully to not spoil anything. Because a writer who writes foreshadowing should follow through with them IMO. 

It looks like Sansa is officially included with the Main 5 now, huh? Interesting...

the Pinocchio/Bran question and answer was really intriguing. I see how Bran's story kind of fits with the story of Pinocchio. 

[The Fattest Leech]

8 hours ago, WolfQueenArya said:

Thank you for posting! It was great reading about your experience with George and Balticon in general. You were really fortunate and lucky! What do you think he meant with the whole Jon/Arya thing? It's like he wants to ignore all the foreshadowing but he has kept it up even in book five! I mean Jon 'dies' for (who he thinks is) Arya! His last words were stick them with he pointy end! ... I hope he was just answering really carefully to not spoil anything. Because a writer who writes foreshadowing should follow through with them IMO. 

It looks like Sansa is officially included with the Main 5 now, huh? Interesting...

the Pinocchio/Bran question and answer was really intriguing. I see how Bran's story kind of fits with the story of Pinocchio. 

At first with Arya and Jon it sounded like he was being polite. But over the days and with a few more questions and book evidence he finally started to give the more pointed answers... Which seemed very honest to me. Body language is a huge part of understanding people and to be there, three feet away from him and to hear his voice and stance  change, I tend to believe him with this one. I also write (for kids, but that is hard!) and can see his point in when you write characters so well in the beginning, they take on a life of their own as the story develops and sometimes do things you don't expect them to do. 

I agree, it sounds like Sansa is now in his top 5. Maybe also the result of characters developing the way they want to   I am actually really excited about this because what I see going down in the Vale in released books and chapters seems like something rather big will happen rather soon. 

As far as Pinocchio and Bran... They have a ton in common, all the way down to the fix and the cat. We all know GRRM uses influences from other stories as a starting point in some of his subplots, but what he doesn't do is retell the original in its entirety. He gets to a point and starts to morph it into his own big picture. On his blog a few weeks back he talked about watching the new Jungle Book movie and we know how much he loves Beauty and the Beast. Pinocchio, the darkest, would fit right in to his world. 

All this said, I am a believer in everything is speculation until we read the words "the end". (And holy hells I can't wait ) 

[WolfQueenArya]

I get the point of characters doing their own thing and running away from you when you write, but to have foreshadowing in all five books? I just want them to reunite and have the closest relationship regardless if Arya and Jon get together in the books. It's just... Everything is pointing to them getting together and to suddenly backtrack with two more books and ignore everything you wrote... I guess I just don't understand. It just seems really inconsistent... 

Hmmm...

[The Fattest Leech]

32 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said:

I get the point of characters doing their own thing and running away from you when you write, but to have foreshadowing in all five books? I just want them to reunite and have the closest relationship regardless if Arya and Jon get together in the books. It's just... Everything is pointing to them getting together and to suddenly backtrack with two more books and ignore everything you wrote... I guess I just don't understand. It just seems really inconsistent... 

Hmmm...

I think either way, Arya and Jon will be incredibly important to each in some way... Don't tell Sansa 

[WolfQueenArya]

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I think either way, Arya and Jon will be incredibly important to each in some way... Don't tell Sansa 

 Don't tell Sansa indeed! 

[Makk]

Thanks for the writeup Leech. Some interesting stuff there.

[Ran]

Great report, Leech. Added it to the SSM!

The Scottish fellow ... I have to assume George means Mormont, who does yeoman's work -- as do the other mods! -- with keeping the forum going.

[Abdallah]

Ask him Why. I just wanna know Why. 

[Walda]

Ok, I've read through your post a couple of times, and have some thoughts, that might be completely off (I wasn't there, after all), but I'm offering them anyway.

There was a lot more, but the stuff on every other point was along the lines of "I totally agree/I'm so jealous/Wow! He's so tall/Oh, you are so brilliant", and even I can see it is totally banal and no interest to anyone. But just so you know, some of the points I haven't commented on were more interesting than some of the points I did comment on, just I had nothing to add but 'I totally agree'

ETA: I'm not surprised that of all the people at your table, you were the one most familiar with GRRM's work, but I am flabbergasted that only one other person had read the books.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

2.    GRRM described himself as a “sex positive feminist”.

Oh. Um. How very eighties of him.

Were you looking young and beautiful, with a Stark sigil nestled in your ample bosum?  Do you think he might have been flirting with you?

This is going to sound horrible, but in my admittedly anecdotal and not recent experience, the guys who claimed this particular type of feminism were "Heterosexual, likes porn" type people, met on the fringe of the womyn's space, or at the bar in unsegregated events, or worst of all, that I knew by sight from the maths faculty/go club/computer lab and strongly suspected had surreptitiously followed me into some feminist space, attempting to strike up a conversation away from their mates prying eyes.

I've never heard a man use this phrase (on me or anyone else) where it wasn't a timid sort of chat-up line he could back away from if need be, kind of putting it out there, that if you wanted to empower yourself like Madonna did in Playboy, they wouldn't make you shave your armpits. And weakly hinting that their 'positive sex' was the next big thing feminists needed to step up and take over.

  Actually, I can't remember hearing anyone, of any gender, use the phrase to address anyone this millennia. Maybe because I no longer hang around university campuses, or maybe I am too old and fat for them to feel positive about sex on meeting me (I still meet guys who are 'a bit of a feminist' sometimes, though).

Most of the time when I heard the phrase last century, it was women using it, at women's groups or feminist meetings, where there was no doubt we were all feminists, and the 'sex positive' was more an implied straw-person accusation towards feminists that see the sex industry as fundamentally oppressive to women, (and typically neither the 'for' or 'against' arguments and advocates had much to do with the realities of sex work and sex workers - I did know people who were doing sex work while going to uni as well, but they were not wasting their precious library time supporting the People's Front of Judeah or  the Judean People's Front).

Thinking about it, anyone putting a modifier in front of a word like 'feminist' is at least partly dissociating from their perception of what 'feminists' are. I am thinking about it because at the moment in Australia journalists looking for a fast and facile election story have been asking pollies if they consider themselves a feminist, provoked by our rather glib PM describing himself as one. It's been hilarious. The male politicians that carved out their place in the political landscape by making non-stop sexist slurs at a previous female PM are proudly declaring that they are, pointing to the female children they sired (as it is known only sexist males abandon girl-children at birth.)

Female conservatives can't choke the career-suicide word out of their throat and are afraid to point to their real contributions to gender equity (or obstructions, as the case may be). The Labor women were looking comfortably smug until they were bombarded with follow-up requests to name a policy that addressed gender imbalances, and how they were addressing the flagrant gendered inequity in this or that named policy.

The Labor leader was happily pointing the finger at how little the former treasurer did for women, until forced to confess that he wasn't going to remove the GST on pads and tampons either (In Australia, essential items like razors and shaving cream are exempt from sales tax).  Most of the backbenchers from both sides of the house  have been muttering vaguely yes-like weasel words with venomous side-eye and palpable resentment.

On the cross-benches, a former football star testily admitted that he doesn't see himself as a feminist, (there was also a state-parliament National party member that went so far as to confess that 'even his wife' thought he was a chauvinist). The libertarian senator claimed his party was both colour blind and gender blind. But he would "like more chicks to join us." The Greens have been like the kid with the raised hand and all the answers, that the teacher just won't ask.

So, compared to the average Australian politician, GRRM is a feminist. Good on him. I guess it's easier for Nikolaj Coster-Waldau - he shrugs on a t-shirt and we take him at his sartorial word. The guys that wrote that scene where Jaime totally doesn't rape his sister on the alter of the mother, not so much.

Given the US is also in election mode, and we know who the candidates are, I predict it won't be long before journalists all over America start playing the f-word game too. Good to know he has his answer ready.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

6.    George just sat right next to me. He was crazy nice and shook my hand … but not before noticing and complimenting me in my silver wolfhead necklace pendant. The conversation started with his work at the wolf sanctuary that is something he is very passionate about. That was the one time his tone changed and became very serious. He went on about the sanctuary and how sometimes humans can be irresponsible with what they think is "cool" by having wolf-dog hybrids and how that is worse for these poor animals. There was passion there. 

This might be an indirect criticism of the show. The show is using an Arctic wolf to represent Ghost (the one we see most of) and 'Northern Inuit' dogs to represent the other direwolves. I've put the breed in quotes because it is a modern dog-type, and some people consider the name misleading, and cultural appropriation. It is not recognised as a breed in it's country of origin (UK), and has modern murky origins and may or may not be regarded as a wolf-hybrid. At least, the breeders seem to have had close associations with breeds that are hybrids. Whether or not, it has a lot of working dog DNA, and so, for people who are not in the habit of sledding for half the day most days, this would be a high maintenance dog, and possibly not the best choice for a companion animal.

It's really good of Sophie Turner's mother to take in the dog that bonded with her daughter, but kind of dubious that the dog seemed to be born and bred just for the show and needed re-homing when its part was done.

If I was going to take the time and trouble, I'd be looking for this problematical breed in a rescue shelter. They look like the kind that go mental in kennels, and are more likely to be put down than find a home.

But, it wasn't the show-runners that decided there was going to be a fierce, untameable pack of predators with a psychic bond even death can't break, with each and every child of Stark blood. That anthropomorphic representation of wolves is on GRRM's conscience, not theirs.

I guess if he thought of stuff like that ahead of time, he'd never get anything written. And I'm pretty sure knowing what the show runners know now, they would have opted for more manageable rather than more wolf-like dogs. I'm glad he really cares about nearly extinct wild wolves.

I'm predicting there will be a lot less about Ghost and Nymeria on the show than in TWoW. (Also, I think there has been foreshadowing for the return of unLady in the books).

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

8.    GRRM is describing the maesters and how he wanted them to have a lot of flower knowledge and to be very clean.

Yes, it makes sense that maesters should have an excellent botanical  knowledge, but he seems to have gone the other way, somewhat, by having Ebrose teach the qualities of urine

Culpepper, the famous apothecary/herbalist, had no respect for physicians who would diagnose illness by inspecting the qualities of a person's urine, rather than by asking the patient about their symptoms and consulting their stars for the appropriate herbs to make a nostrum with. 

Also, the maesters don't appear to pay scrupulous attention to hygiene. Maester Pycelle seems to breed infection with every bone he attempts to set. Mirri Maz Duur does seem to know her botany and be clean. Qyburn also managed to keep his patient from dying of infection in trying circumstances, but he isn't exactly kosher in the Citidel either.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

13. I had dessert with George and 5 other people at my table. GRRM sat directly next to me on the right. I had the “Reach Pear Tart” and GRRM had the lemon cake.

Now, this is not nearly enough to satisfy me.

Did your pear tart have a lattice? or was it encased in puff pastry? French style, feathered out in an almond frangipane with a buttery shortcrust case? Or a Chantilly cream? Italian style, being slowly subsumed by a chocolate hazelnut or mascapone cake base, or simply caramelized pears over a shortcrust base? Were the pears at least poached in brandy or  port?
Were they served with ice-cream? Biscuit base? Little cubes of jelly or blobs of jam, with a 'sand' and lots of 'negative space'(ie.all lined up on one side of a big plate)

The only mention of pears in the books so far are:

Tyroshi pear brandy (AGoT, Ch.54 Daenerys VI) brought to Vaes Dothrak by the possibly Lysene wineseller assassin.

pears poached in strongwine (ACoK, Ch.21 Bran III) possibly brought by Lord Manderley to Winterfell (who, as we know, brings foods to  Winterfell that clue us in to his shifting allegiances)

crisp autumn pears (ACoK, Ch.64 Arya X) in Lord Bolton's fruit bowl at Harrenhal

Crisp pears in particular require quite a lot of winter chilling (over 1500 hours below freezing) in order to set. GRRM probably didn't really think through the impact of his seasons on plants when he started this, but his Reach has blood melons, fire plums, peaches and pomegranates, rather than pears.

And what about your mains, salad, soup, and starters? Was it extraordinary, or just the standard two-option banquet food you expect at a function in a hotel? As it is a fund-raiser and the primary draw is GRRM rather than the food, maybe it was only one of the hotel's standard banquet menus, written up to sound a little Thronesy.

Even so, I'd like to know more about the food. Do you know who designed the menu? Was there a ban on pics? I suppose it might not be the best of manners to take pictures of the food, even if it wasn't, but if there are pics, I'd love to see them.

 

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

15. My other “big” question to him was about my Targ/Non-Targ theory.

Oo, oo, oo. Sounds like you are onto something. And you do know a lot. And think a lot.

 

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

GRRM did make mention at how when you see actors at other cons, which are considered shows as opposed to fan conventions, that the guests and show actors are there because they are paid (does that equal employee?) 

Yes, I noticed at Brisbane Supernova a couple of years ago, that the actors were charging $50 per signature while GRRM was giving signatures for free (although, sadly, he wasn't there when I was). I think he, like they, was paid to attend, though. While Australia is full of wonderful places to go for a holiday, the crowded generic conference centres that do Supernova would probably not be their first choice for a good time.

A jobbing actor would want to be paid at least what they would get if they spent that time acting, as it is time they won't be available to act in. They don't have much reason to endure the jet lag and the writers cramp if they are not paid. I did assume that GRRM was also there because he was paid and not just for the love of his Australian fans, although full credit to him for not charging for signatures.

It seemed ridiculous to me that the actual creator of the works was not charging for his signature, while the people who represent the characters he created were. I did wonder if they were signing their own names or their characters names. Really, I'm grateful they come so far at all, even if we don't get to discuss sexuality in the novels, or hear new chapters. It's a long way to come, and I'm sure they wouldn't, if they were not paid.

Anyway, you are lucky GRRM is one of the founding fathers of the US sci-fi fan-con-culture, that you have an indigenous con-culture. Australia only gets show-cons, and they are a recent import, and not so much a way of getting exposure for new / up-and-coming local talent.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

no one in the book universe or even the readers care that Jeyne Poole was tortured and raped… she was not important to anyone and readers have no sympathy for her.

 

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

a.     I will admit that I lost my willpower and shouted “NO” and then went on to explain the motivations Mr. Benioff and Mr.Weiss used to get Sansa in with Ramsay and so on. I actually had people come up to me after this panel ended and thanked me for speaking up. I was shocked, yet happy with that.

Good on you and on audience guy for speaking up - where did she get 'no-one cared'? The characters who cared about her were terrified of Bolton, and as far as I can tell, every thread here with a 'who gets shortest shrift' theme has Jeyne Poole contending for most tragic character. Readers definitely care.

ETA: Or was she reacting to Cogman's comment that ‘You use the character the audience is invested in.’ , which he offered as a reason for forgetting Jeyne Poole in the show? If 'anyone' and 'readers' were intended to refer to the show's 'producers' and 'writers', that is. This EW article does strongly imply that the show-runners believe nobody is really invested in Jeyne. But that would be assuming that 'readers' are really 'watchers' - unless she/they had done some testing on a sample of readers. Which doesn't seem like something they would do.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

4.    And then there were other guys asking why no one cares that the males are mutilated, etc. 

That is like claiming no one cares about Jeyne/Palla/Eroah/Layna etc. The whole purpose of castrating Theon seems to be to make the reader care for him in spite of his betrayal, Arya cares about the guy the mad huntsman mutilated in the crow cage, Daenarys is moved to conquest by the thought of her unsullied being castrated (and forced to strangle puppies and kill babies, if they are of the one in three that survives that long). Even Cersei has nightmares as a result of her torture of the Blue Bard (not that that makes it alright) Varys's castration seems terrible to the reader, even if the sorcerer seemed heartlessly indifferent. Tyrion at least said he was sorry to hear the tale, even if he does not appear deeply moved by it.

I'm wondering if these guys got the impression no-one cared about Aeron when GRRM read 'The Forsaken'?

And look at how empowered Theon is now he knows his name.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

when D&D's name came on screen, lots of people shouted big WOO's and waved their hands around like crazy even though the same ones were silent for George.

Well, he wasn't there, which did speak volumes.

To be fair, the show belongs to D&D, rather than George. The people clapping and waving their hands for them were probably involved in the production. Of course if the show-runners created their jobs, and choose them to do it, they would make a point of cheering.

Also, D&D deserve their cheers. They have a shitty job - when they get it spot on, everyone raves about what an excellent writer GRRM is, and how those brilliant actors absolutely embody his characters. I've noticed the same actors in other productions are not always so infallibly brilliant (Well, except Stephen Dillane, who seems to be fantastic in everything). The production team really work hard (and effectively) at bringing out their actors very best, every scene, and making everyone look and sound exceptional.

When D&D get it wrong, and not even wrong, but different to a book fans idea of how it should be, they get caned endlessly. Even for things like their choice of life partner, apparently. Although this is another thing that makes me think there were TV production people there- the show-runner's wives are like any bosses wives, and of course they get bitched about when they walk in acting as if they own the business (even bosses wives that actually are part of the business, but not part of the day to day, can get under the skin of people with jobs to do. They have to get on with the boss, but they don't have to get on with the bosses wife, so she can end up being a 'safe' target for their suppressed dissatisfactions) 

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

3.    Reactions after the episode

 

a.     People were confused about Sam taking Heartsbane. It seemed out of character for him to do so.

Yes, stealing does seem totally out of character, even for showSam but especially for the Sam who counted Heartsbane among the many things that scared him, and was 'afraid he might hurt one of his sisters'.  He seemed perfectly content to let Dickon have it.

But I suppose that dream roast is not going to cut itself. His sisters are safer while the sword is in his hands rather than Euron's.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

George started talking about sword fighting and how Hollywood gets it wrong.

Yeah, stage fighting is nothing like real fighting.

Real fighting, even the ritualised and non-life threatening  sort that is practiced in dojos and fencing schools is over a lot faster than the for-camera stuff, and without the need to identify how you feel about whomever you are up against, or find your motivation, or mug at them, let alone communicate with them. Actors have to do the exact same moves over and over, take after take, while they get different camera angles, adjust the light, redo it cos a plane flew over or whatever. 

Not that the books are exactly an exemplar of realism. For example, BookSyrio has all the time in the world. If he had even reasonably good dojo moves, there might have been time to yell 'RUN' as he set on the hapless fools that had thought to ambush him, but not “Arya child,we are done with dancing for the day. Best you are going now. Run to your father.” Never mind all the witty ripostes, and tooth clicking, and foot tapping that SOMEONE wrote into the scene to ratchet up the dramatic tension.
Have to say, too, that on the show quite a few of the background characters (eg.in the S4E9 battle at Castle Black) are clearly very good martial artists.I suspect they are stunts people, and that they are the ones who choreographed the whole sequence.

And yes, of course the show's scenes are choreographed to do something other than demonstrate authentic medieval fighting styles. Just like the book. Its all about moving the plot along. There's things they want everyone to cotton onto, and camera angles and depth of field and stuff to think of. Also, the health and safety for your actors, who shouldn't tolerate being bashed up or even just a little bit concussed from a heavy fall in the workplace. So having one person waving two swords around without harming himself or anyone else, is probably the way to go. And anyway, I'm a fan of Niten Ichi ryu, two swords are a legit fighting style, even if it is a bit 'overarmed samurai against peasant with hoe'.

ETA: I'm thinking this is pretty close to a direct criticism of the show's ToJ scene.

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

I asked him about my Bran/Wood dancers/Pinocchio theory. I pointed out the seemingly heavy influence Pinocchio has in the Bran storyline

 

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

.    He asked if I ever read the book. I answered "yes, as a kid and I love the movie too." He said he never read the original story... but then two or three sentences later he talked about the differences in the book to movie and gave quotes and examples from the book story?!?!

 

On 12/06/2016 at 5:33 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

I do believe this was some sort of diversionary tactic because I may have been on to something. And then as he paused and was thinking of the next part of his answer, some other woman cut in to ask about how Shakespeare influenced him. (By the way, this Shakespeare question was asked at least two other times at public discussion panels already )

I totally believe it was a diversionary tactic, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Shakespeare question was what con people were told to ask him if he needed to change up quickly (hence it coming up at public discussion panels repeatedly).

But are you sure you read this book when you were a kid? I thought I had (and, as my moment of acting glory was scoring the blue fairy in the third-grade play, I made it my business to find and dissect the book, the better to know my character), but like 1001 Arabian nights, and the Marsh King, and the Brothers Grimm, the book in the children's section of my local library was bowdlerised and abridged. The original is not particularly suitable for children. Not today's children, anyway.

He is spot on, the original Pinocchio is the least cohesive, most underwritten, broken Aesop specimen of dubious mid-Victorian morality you could hope to find. The ghost/sister/fairy/mother/goat with the azure hair and the forgiveness is priceless, and notJiminey dies (smashed with a hammer) in his first scene. He isn't a great substitute for a moral compass, either. You could say his death was the direct result of belittling a narcissistic psychopath. Although it's difficult to say if Pinocchio was bothered, or if he just liked smashing bugs. The book has lots of mixed messages. Sometimes the nose grows when Pinocchio isn't lying, sometimes he lies without the nose growing. It is a lot more like the 2002 movie that scored 0% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, than the 1940 one that scored 100%.

There's a maritime theme that is kind of Euron-ish, and there are lots of things that could be really interesting with respect to Bran. It doesn't have the deep (ie.medieval) roots of Grimm/Anderson/Lang/Arabian Nights, or the clear and obvious applicability of Bran Fendigaid, but it does draw on the Commedia dell'arte, which has its own roots in Carnival, and has masked/unmasked living/animated distinctions that are interesting.

Lorenzini was familiar with Perrault - but his characters' idiosyncrasies seem to be more about pulling stuff out of his bum than carefully preserving aspects of legendary significance. Other 19th century fairy-tale authors wrote like academic anthologisers of historic fictions, Lorenzini wrote like an alcoholic ex-soldier in desperate need of cash. 

Also, I'm not sure Pinocchio was not written as a political satire of the trasformismo period that followed the unification of Italy, and might be more understandable if viewed in the context of the newspaper it was originally serialised in. I don't speak Italian, so I'm not sure how badly it suffers in translation.

[The Lash]

Ask him if he is a leg and ass man or boobies