What if Jaime had refused to leave the Throne?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

After Jaime killed the Mad King he sat on the Iron Throne and when Ned showed up he told him he was simply keeping the seat warm for Robert.  Just out of curiosity, if Jaime actually entertained the thought of keeping the Throne for himself, what do you think would have happened?  How do you think Ned would react?  And what about Tywin and his army?

I just wanted to see what everyone else thought about this.

 

[Curled Finger]

You know that scene is so well written where Ned strolls in and finds this punk kid or where this child Kingsguard, exhausted, takes the throne to ensure no Targ friendlies take it from the rebels.   I think Ned would have challenged Jamie and probably got his head handed to him that way--if Jamie actually wanted the IT.   Which he didn't, but his sitting there is such a testament to Jamie's state of mind.    I never got the vibe that Tywin wanted to be king--he was perfectly happy to pull the strings that moved the king.   I think Cersei was the Lannister to be scared of in that bunch insofar as the throne is concerned. 

[Fox of House McCloud]

I've gotta agree with @Let's Get Kraken, there's no way that Jaime (even with the support of the Lannisters) could hold the throne. Robert and the rebels just finished crushing the Targaryen forces... the Lannisters have a smaller army, and virtually no allies (they would be fighting against the Starks/Baratheons/Tullys/Arryns as headed by Robert, and the brutal killing of Elia and Rhaegar's children costs them the support of the Targaryens and Martells). Jaime might have been able to hold the throne for a short time, but probably only long enough for the rest of the realm to get together and smash the Lannisters.

[enoofu]

First out Jaime is a sworn-en brother of the Kingguard and is forbidden from owning land, now add the fact he just killed the King

Tywin state of mind would of been fixing Jaime King-guard problem and if that didn't work try to marry his daughter off to the King so I don't think Lannister forces would of help at all.

 

[Waters Gate]

In principle i agree with all the posters above. In the situation Jaime was at that point he wouldn't have been able to keep it.

 

Which is not to say that Jaime couldn't have been as much the usurper  as Robert had been though. Roberts reign was one of might makes right where justification or claim was practicly non existing. So in principle if Jaime had the might he might have gotten it himself in simmilar fashion. Thats why the objections made here are mostly regarding the fact that Jaime has no (or not enough) millitary power that he can muster to hold the throne..

 

Which is to say that it could still have gone a bit differently. That jaime is a kingsguard and kingslayer actually hardly matters so much i think as in the end it's really all about "might makes right". What does matter is that with being not married he has no alliance by that way. But say that jaime had done a move towards an alliance/marriage right then with another party interrested in influence on the throne and an army to help Jaime hold that position, well perhaps that could change the matter a bit. Atleast, if Jaime goes sit on the throne and gets his alliance at the same time, and eventually his alliance succeeds in holding it too, then there won't be too much effective problem for Jaime to occupy the throne. I don't see the issue for Tywin neither, sure he doesn't want to fight a unwinnable war, but perhaps he would like to fight a winnable one if that brings not only his son on the throne, but also out of the kingsguard, into marriage and Lannister offspring.

And by "winnable" we don't have to defeat the northern alliance just yet, if there is a stalemate then Jaime has the time on his side. However it's unlikely that he will get much popularity among the nobbilety that he cannot control, so likely a few parts would break off, but even then that gives the Lannisters atleast a larger part of Westeros and a claim to take it all back that can be used at any opportune time.

Now the last thing to wonder is: what alliance? The rebels had the north + the riverlands + the vale + the stormlands. The reach and Dorne was iirc supporting the Targaryans. What seems left is either the iron islands, or an alliance abroad. In such a scenario Jaime would need to find a good alliance that can come support him at Kings landing on the double. The Lannister army can defend the city for a while from Roberts alliance but his throne will only be secured at the point where his added ally would arrive to have total army numbers than can challenge that of Roberts alliance. i doubt though that say pentos or the iron islands could really add the required number of extra troops.

 

 

 

[norwaywolf123]

Maybe if Robert Baratheon agreed to it. But Jaime would have married into the STAB alliance and Lysa, Catelyn were already ocuppied.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Well accidents happen don't they? Maybe Jaime would had an accident before a coronation could take place.

[Brightstar_]

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You know that scene is so well written where Ned strolls in and finds this punk kid or where this child Kingsguard, exhausted, takes the throne to ensure no Targ friendlies take it from the rebels.   I think Ned would have challenged Jamie and probably got his head handed to him that way--if Jamie actually wanted the IT.   Which he didn't, but his sitting there is such a testament to Jamie's state of mind.    I never got the vibe that Tywin wanted to be king--he was perfectly happy to pull the strings that moved the king.   I think Cersei was the Lannister to be scared of in that bunch insofar as the throne is concerned. 

Kinda like I would I would have loved to see it happen in their "fight" in the show. Too many showwatchers arguing that Ned "could have taken" Jaime. 

Oh the matter at hand though, as everyone before me has pointed out, Jaime had no actual way of keeping the throne unless both Ned and Robert agreed to him taking it, for obvious reasons.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

He would have had to leave it at some point to pee.

[Kal-L]

9 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Maybe if Robert Baratheon agreed to it. But Jaime would have married into the STAB alliance and Lysa, Catelyn were already ocuppied.

Robert can accept Jaime as his king but he has no influence over the North who obviously wouldn't bend the knee to him.

[norwaywolf123]

2 hours ago, Kal-L said:

Robert can accept Jaime as his king but he has no influence over the North who obviously wouldn't bend the knee to him.

The nort is so isolated that in reality the king of the ironthrones core is the sourth (Westerlands, Riverlands, Vale, Crownlands, Stormlands and the Reach)

[Kal-L]

On 29/5/2016 at 3:35 AM, norwaywolf123 said:

The nort is so isolated that in reality the king of the ironthrones core is the sourth (Westerlands, Riverlands, Vale, Crownlands, Stormlands and the Reach)

And ? If Ned and the North, the main power of the rebels don't want a treacherous Lannister as their King no one will forced them to subdue to this kid. I'm not even sure the Vale would accept to bend the knee but in other case the North would simply declare independance which wouldn't be good for the realm.

[DreamSongs]

Jaime, especially a 17 year old Jaime, is not a politician.  He is still an idealist with a head full of songs and oaths.  I see the killing of Aerys as the death of the boy and the birth of bitter realism.  He is still loyal to the Crown and the Targs and considers putting baby Aegon on the IT.  He doesn't have time to decide what to do before he is found by Tywin's men and Ned.