(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion - Rant & Tear apart

[Arya'sSanctuary]

The only thing I liked this episode was Margery's deft playing of the game. She avoided the walk of atonement and is confident she has control over Tommen. ???does she? Sex vs religious fervor, what will win?

[Tijgy]

8 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Well spotted! I've  o pletelyforgotten that Bran wouldn't know about the RW. Unless he saw it previously? In the books at least he seems to see Theon in WF.

It is never mentioned I think in the show. But apparently everyone knows everything so he might know? But he himself never mentioned it in the show. 

In the books - ASOS No, thought Bran, it is the Nightfort, and this is the end of the world. In the mountains, all he could think of was reaching the Wall and finding the three-eyed crow, but now that they were here he was filled with fears. The dream he'd had . . . the dream Summer had had . . . No, I mustn't think about that dream. He had not even told the Reeds, though Meera at least seemed to sense that something was wrong (oh, Meera ) . If he never talked of it maybe he could forget he ever dreamed it, and then it wouldn't have happened and Robb and Grey Wind would still be . . .

He is doing here the thing in which the Starks are very good at: just ignore things - that would make everything better... 

And later in ADWD: 

Old Nan had told him the same story once, Bran remembered, but when he asked Robb if it was true, his brother laughed and asked him if he believed in grumkins too. He wished Robb were with them now. I'd tell him I could fly, but he wouldn't believe, so I'd have to show him. I bet that he could learn to fly too, him and Arya and Sansa, even baby Rickon and Jon Snow. We could all be ravens and live in Maester Luwin's rookery.

It looks like he thinks Robb is here alive? He never thinks his brother is dead. Very good at suppressing memories, Bran. It is not the first time he is doing this.

[TickTak7]

6 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

And wasn't it established last week that Kevan would not do anything with the Tyrells assaulting the HS?  So why wasn't HE keeping an eye on Tommen, that was his job, right? To keep the throne from reacting to the Tyrell's move, right?

 

So it appears that Kevan, Tommen and the HS are working for Margery?  Ummm aarrghh head hurts

They asked Kevan to do nothing as they planned and executed this. 

So he did nothing as they planned and executed this, as evidenced by the fact that he wasn't keeping council over Tommen. 

He is the Hand - The King's closest advisor. He's not meant to be with the King ever waking minute of the day though. 

[Ruhail]

56 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

What is the reason why Ben was send on his ranging? I do not think they really believed in the WW then? I thought it was to find the wildlings, the reason of their disappearance but not the White Walkers themselves?

 

Dont forget those stupid jars of dead fetuses which= abundance of kingsblood never to be bought up again lol

20 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Just want to point out 6 episodes in and Davos still doesn't know about Shireen

Whos that? Hes always loved ungrateful emo boy

[SerMixalot]

1 minute ago, Ruhail said:

Dont forget those stupid jars of dead fetuses which= abundance of kingsblood never to be bought up again lol

Whos that? Hes always loved ungrateful emo boy

in  my head cannon, shireen comes back as a wight and kills Davos who dies like the wilding woman at Hardhomie

[Maid So Fair]

6 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

It is never mentioned I think in the show. But apparently everyone knows everything so he might know? But he himself never mentioned it in the show. 

In the books - ASOS No, thought Bran, it is the Nightfort, and this is the end of the world. In the mountains, all he could think of was reaching the Wall and finding the three-eyed crow, but now that they were here he was filled with fears. The dream he'd had . . . the dream Summer had had . . . No, I mustn't think about that dream. He had not even told the Reeds, though Meera at least seemed to sense that something was wrong (oh, Meera ) . If he never talked of it maybe he could forget he ever dreamed it, and then it wouldn't have happened and Robb and Grey Wind would still be . . .

He is doing here the thing in which the Starks are very good at: just ignore things - that would make everything better... 

And later in ADWD: 

Old Nan had told him the same story once, Bran remembered, but when he asked Robb if it was true, his brother laughed and asked him if he believed in grumkins too. He wished Robb were with them now. I'd tell him I could fly, but he wouldn't believe, so I'd have to show him. I bet that he could learn to fly too, him and Arya and Sansa, even baby Rickon and Jon Snow. We could all be ravens and live in Maester Luwin's rookery.

It looks like he thinks Robb is here alive? He never thinks his brother is dead. Very good at suppressing memories, Bran. It is not the first time he is doing this.

Aww poor Bran. He's such a cinnamon roll.  He must know about it on some level, even if he doesn't know the circumstances - him and Rickon dreamed of Ned's death, and that was before he really started exploring his powers. And Ghost/Jon seem to have a pretty good sense of the other wolves so Bran should as well. 

[TimeforTravel]

- Another cheesy Dany ending... How many is this now? I've lost count. After 3x04 they already lost their power.

- The Waif really seems to hate Arya. For someone that's no-one that seems pretty stupid to me. She never acted nice to Arya, Always being a bitch. I was Always skeptic, but now I know for sure that it wasn't part of her training and the Waif just plain hates her... And can someone tell me why they even bother wearing the Jaqen and the Waif faces all the time?

- Coldhands and Benjen being merged... I'd rather have just Coldhands or just Benjen, but didn't GRRM say they were separate?

- Why in Gods name does Sam bring Gilly to his father. His father managed to gety him to the wall, so he could have figured that his father would get rid of Gilly.

-I hope Margaery is playing the HS for some reason. Looking forward to her next scenes... I swear, if this is just her "making it stop" for Loras... 

 

 

[-Winterfellian-]

9 hours ago, Lothar said:

Where did you hear that he was behind those things?  That would be depressing.  I thought he was one of the good writers.  

Mostly from interviews such as this one, were he offers this golden explanation foor the change:

Quote

Besides, Cogman pointed out: “You have this storyline with Ramsay. Do you have one of your leading ladies—who is an incredibly talented actor who we’ve followed for five years and viewers love and adore—do it? Or do you bring in a new character to do it? To me, the question answers itself: You use the character the audience is invested in.” 

And he is credited with the unfortunately Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken episode. Also, from what a gather from different fan sites D&D planned on removing the entire Dorne plotline, but it was Cogman who convinced them to include it and to make Jaime's and Bronn's bro trip central to the story.

I actually think some of his earlier episodes were really good. However, like D&D he has gotten cocky and thinks he know how to improve on the source material.

[robasp2]

"You must like Daenerys, you must like the Khaleesi..you must..you must... see she is awesome..come on.. she has dragons..oooh.. see you must like her... she is the savior. You must...you must like her" -D&D.

Fuck you..

She seems just like Ramsey and Joffrey now..

You wish they were dead. They do shit as they please. They are blinded by greed and power BUT they never die.. because, the evil dont die in this show..

So I'm sure she will be sitting on the iron throne and cooking some "powerful" white walkers with dragon flame.

The show has reached that level now with her..

[Le Cygne]

Daario tells Dany she's not for sitting on a throne, but a conqueror, and she has no real reaction to that. What's the point of the crappy dialogue, the reactions are usually gaping, the actors don't even know what it's supposed to mean.

It's a cheap way to pass for telling a story, when no story is actually being told. Just a series of skits. Then pretend it means something later in the outside the episode, and change it at a later date, when they come up with yet more nothing.

[ebourget]

5 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Actually the price is relative. It's always high, but within the capabilities of the one trying to purchase the FM's services.

So basically exactly what he said,  extremely expensive.   Relative or not, this stupid jealous woman is just living her life as it always was, acting and being beautiful.   It makes no sense that she somehow paid for a hit and just went about her business as usual.  

MY guess, would be that the waif used to be an actress with the troupe.  It's actually HER hit, she hated lady crane for some reason.  Her payment for the hit, like Arya, is to serve the MFG.  Being a trained actress she would be well suited to being a FM, if she could finish her training.  But then here comes a younger more "special" acolyte who Jaquen takes a liking too.   More jealousy.   Once the waif has earned her hit with service, it's finally time.  Only she can't do it herself (cause rules) and so it is given to the other new acolyte.  More jealousy.  New acolyte defies the MFG and saves her target.  Rage and pride surface in the acolyte.  A face will be added to the wall.

[Ser Blake]

Is there any actual evidence that the Sansa in Winterhell and the Porne storylines were actually Cogman's ideas though? Just because they occur in his episodes and he gets stuck defending them in interviews, doesn't make them his ideas.

As for dialogue, give me a break. He is a infinitely better than D&D.  The dialogue in Kissed by Fire (the show's best episode) and The Laws of Gods and Men is vastly superior to any of D&D's work outside of Season 1.

[Le Cygne]

Cogman has said a lot more about it than that. He's a hack. Benioff and Weiss at least have some basic writing skills down, but they are hacks, too. Ultimately the entire responsibility is Benioff's and Weiss's as showrunners. But I'm not about to pretend they don't listen to Cogman, they even listen to the intern who came up with Olly.

[Lothar]

14 minutes ago, -Winterfellian- said:

Mostly from interviews such as this one, were he offers this golden explanation foor the change:

And he is credited with the unfortunately Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken episode. Also, from what a gather from different fan sites D&D planned on removing the entire Dorne plotline, but it was Cogman who convinced them to include it and to make Jaime's and Bronn's bro trip central to the story.

I actually think some of his earlier episodes were really good. However, like D&D he has gotten cocky and thinks he know how to improve on the source material.

He defended it but that doesn't tell me he came up with the idea.  

People didn't like what happened in the episode, but I don't remember the Unbowed, Unbent, and Unbroken being poorly written.  The dialogue between Sansa, Theon, and Ramsay came off as realistic and that's not something I can often say.  I remember a really good part where Sansa was taking a bath and she acted tough and brave towards Myranda, but then when the door closed and she was by herself, she revealed that she was terrified.  That was uncharacteristically low-key and kind of smart for the show.

[ebourget]

Can y'all just start a Cogman thread?

[Ser Blake]

5 minutes ago, Lothar said:

He defended it but that doesn't tell me he came up with the idea.  

People didn't like what happened in the episode, but I don't remember the Unbowed, Unbent, and Unbroken being poorly written.  The dialogue between Sansa, Theon, and Ramsay came off as realistic and that's not something I can often say.  I remember a really good part where Sansa was taking a bath and she acted tough and brave towards Myranda, but then when the door closed and she was by herself, she revealed that she was terrified.  That was uncharacteristically low-key and kind of smart for the show.

Precisely. You can hate Winterhell all you like, but the scenes there are still very well written.

[Nami]

This was such a SHIAAAAAAT episode, jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick
It's so badly written, they are moving things at lightspeed while spoonfeeding the plot to the audience

It's always nice to see a person riding a fucking dragon though. I give them that. Ignoring also the fact that a dragon can't be controlled like that simply by will, according to the books.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

D&D are slightly better writers but Cogman used to make up for it by drawing more from the source material, he does a better job of integrating actual dialogue from the books into his scenes, and stay away from purely made up stuff so his stuff tend to be more consistent , whereas D&D tend to write it all on their own, and you do occasionally get some decent original stuff, but you also get a ton of Tyrion talking 5 minutes about beetles. 

[Cas Stark]

14 minutes ago, Ser Blake said:

Is there any actual evidence that the Sansa in Winterhell and the Porne storylines were actually Cogman's ideas though? Just because they occur in his episodes and he gets stuck defending them in interviews, doesn't make them his ideas.

As for dialogue, give me a break. He is a infinitely better than D&D.  The dialogue in Kissed by Fire (the show's best episode) and The Laws of Gods and Men is vastly superior to any of D&D's work outside of Season 1.

I agree.  Cogman is doing a job, he shouldn't be blamed for taking heat and/or defending his bosses, and Dan and Dave already said it was their idea to bring Sansa to Winterfell and marry her to Ramsay.  I don't get blaming Cogman for writing the episode, and I agree, he's better than the showrunners, though not by a huge margin.

[Le Cygne]

Winterfell scenes were horribly written. And that hole that was dug is part of why the subsequent scenes are horribly written.

Now to dig themselves out, Jon Snow is taking a back seat in his own storyline. And Sansa is being portrayed horribly as usual.