The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 These are terrible writers who have no clue how to write intelligent characters or write real intrigue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Don't dare call him true Jamie just because he is at Riverrun. Unless he burns Cersei's letter it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Blake Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Just now, Lord Syv Aldlark said: No way. Plus his character flip would make no sense now anyway. I don't know. Cogman tends to write Jaime extremely well, and he is very loyal to book scenes when D&D allow it. I am cautiously optimistic that the Siege of Riverrun will be done well. I just feel there are too many quotable lines from the Jaime/Blackfish confrontation to not include a few of them in the show. And yes it wouldn't make sense, but I don't really care at this point. I'm tired of the castrated Larry Lannister and I just want to see Jaime acting like Jaime again, regardless of the context or reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 hours ago, CarCrashFiance said: GRRM has lost sight of the end game. The show and books are (allegedly) about the battle of the Others versus Westeros. Ice and Fire? Right? But the various stories are so pointless and meandering. How does Arya watching a play affect the Others versus Westeros? Dorne? Iron Islands? Faith Militant? Sam and his failed romance with a wildling? This has become a character drama with no plot whatsoever. Days of Our (boring) Lives. The show actually removes more filler from the books but still ends up going nowhere. The fans are taking the same mindless journey in the desert as Dany. The entire drawn out and dead Iron Islands story is just a deus ex machina setup for Dany to get ships. "Where will I possibly get 1,000 ships?!?!". I think we all know where because GRRM has telegraphed literally everything. Hold the Door. Six books and six or seven seasons for the Iron Islands plotline to give Dany 1,000 ships. Everything else is just filler with that entire storyline basically. GRRM basically wrote his own anime/manga but included the filler content in the first run. Victarion? Euron? Just pointless characters to deliver the "anointed cherub" her ships. The entire Iron Islands story is basically about 1,000 ships being delivered to the Dragon Messiah. If you didn't get the reference, GRRM worships Satan so this is nothing new. His savior is a dragon (in real life even?). And it's the same with Arya's training to be an assassin. Just a drawn out plot to set up one "climactic" fan service moment that GRRM's army of deluded keyboard peasants can foam at the mouth over, after waiting another decade to get something that is as much influenced by D&D or European history than anything original in GRRM's football obsessed head. The show is likely being faithful to the books when it comes to major plot points. Children of the Forest created the Others, Dany will get 1,000 ships and her dragons, Jon comes back to life, Ramsay kills daddy, R+L = J, and so on. I can't imagine D&D came up with any of those. I can't wait to see the book purists read books six and seven (and eight?.....nine?) and find out that D&D actually didn't ruin anything but that GRRM was the one who ruined everything. GRRM himself said he hoped he didn't pull a LOST with his series. But I literally cannot see anything else other than that exact scenario happening. But he gets NFL season tickets out of it so good for him. Book six will have all the scenes we've scene just with more descriptions and details. Artificial depth with no substance. Like how LOST ended. At this point I can already predict the entire ending of the series. And there are 1,000 of posts and blogs and articles where people have the same predictions. Dragons and wildfire versus the Others, Jon being a secret Targ, Tyrion being a secret Targ, midget dragon riders, Dragon Messiah Lucifer Dany herself saving everyone and redeeming her fallen bloodline. Bran continuing the cycle of The Wall and a time of peace and becoming the 3EC and Bran the Builder. Rickon making a bunch of new Stark heirs. Almost the entire rest of the cast being killed off. World left open for sequels so GRRM can really cash in. HBO options sequels. Fans curse the very ground they stand on but then subscribe to HBO again forgetting their own thoughts from ten seconds ago. Sadly enough I see a little truth in what you are saying. I hope you are wrong, I pray that you are wrong but I do admit that there are too many plots and characters for us to be fully invested in them all and a lot of people and places feel like filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boastful Knight Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ser Blake said: I don't know. Cogman tends to write Jaime extremely well, and he is very loyal to book scenes when D&D allow it. I am cautiously optimistic that the Siege of Riverrun will be done well. I just feel there are too many quotable lines from the Jaime/Blackfish confrontation to not include a few of them in the show. And yes it wouldn't make sense, but I don't really care at this point. I'm tired of the castrated Larry Lannister and I just want to see Jaime acting like Jaime again, regardless of the context or reasoning. On some level I agree, because real Jaime is one of my favourites, but I take less inconsistency over fan service. Besides, Cogman wrote this episode as well, right? Larry and Carol are more in love with each other than ever before, so I'm almost 100% positive that we won't see real Jaime anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Problem with the confrontation with the BF is that all of what BF says about Jaime will be true which kind of kills the dramatic tension in that scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Ghost- Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 There is no way that the LC of the Kings Guard would have no idea what's going on with the King and the FM, with 5 out of the 7 KG in on it. Qyburn controls all of the little birds in KL and he reports to Cersie. This was her plan. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Just now, The Boastful Knight said: On some level I agree, because real Jaime is one of my favourites, but I take less inconsistency over fan service. Besides, Cogman wrote this episode as well, right? Larry and Carol are more in love with each other than ever before, so I'm almost 100% positive that we won't see real Jaime anytime soon. Yep even if he delivers the lines he is just another hashtag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Just now, -Ghost- said: There is no way that the LC of the Kings Guard would have no idea what's going on with the King and the FM, with 5 out of the 7 KG in on it. Qyburn controls all of the little birds in KL and he reports to Cersie. This was her plan. It makes no sense. Right? Cersei has all the little birds, Robert Strong and the Kingsguard LC on her side. Yet Tommen, margarey and the high sparrow completely got over on her. Without Jamie knowing what his Kingsguard were doing. I also really love how somehow. Out of all the shit Jamie and Cersei have done over the seasons.. Somehow the High Sparrow is the villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPathera Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said: You haven't realized yet? DD want Cersei to be sympathetic. Then they're failing miserably. You can't humanize an objectively unlikable and evil character (Yes, I'm defying the "there's no good and evil" mantra). Despite all of their attempts to whitewash Cersei and make her sympathetic, they've failed. Removing Cersei from power was a good thing. Having her take the Walk of Atonement was a good thing. Having her beaten at her own game is a good thing especially since the High Sparrow is a very likable and moral character. After all, has DD forgotten that this is the same woman who cuckolded King Robert; slept with her twin brother and cheated on said brother with her cousin; Enabled and raised Joffrey to be the monster that he was; Opposed and hindered Tyrion's attempts to save her life from Stannis; Arranged false witnesses to act against Tyrion for a crime he didn't commit; and undermined her own son because she didn't want to lose the prestige and power of being "The Queen"? I'd call this Designated Hero syndrome, but even Martin is blunt about how unlikable and cruel Cersei is in the books. Even giving her a POV merely makes most readers hate Cersei even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said: Right? Cersei has all the little birds, Robert Strong and the Kingsguard LC on her side. Yet Tommen, margarey and the high sparrow completely got over on her. Without Jamie knowing what his Kingsguard were doing. I also really love how somehow. Out of all the shit Jamie and Cersei have done over the seasons.. Somehow the High Sparrow is the villain. Never mind the Kingsguards, how does LC of the KG not know where the King was? Jaime should be kicked out of the KG just for being so awful at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Just now, LordPathera said: Then they're failing miserably. You can't humanize an objectively unlikable and evil character (Yes, I'm defying the "there's no good and evil" mantra). Despite all of their attempts to whitewash Cersei and make her sympathetic, they've failed. Removing Cersei from power was a good thing. Having her take the Walk of Atonement was a good thing. Having her beaten at her own game is a good thing especially since the High Sparrow is a very likable and moral character. After all, has DD forgotten that this is the same woman who cuckolded King Robert; slept with her twin brother and cheated on said brother with her cousin; Enabled and raised Joffrey to be the monster that he was; Opposed and hindered Tyrion's attempts to save her life from Stannis; Arranged false witnesses to act against Tyrion for a crime he didn't commit; and undermined her own son because she didn't want to lose the prestige and power of being "The Queen"? I'd call this Designated Hero syndrome, but even Martin is blunt about how unlikable and cruel Cersei is in the books. Even giving her a POV merely makes most readers hate Cersei even more. I know. Oh I know. Yet almost everything seems done to make Cersei more sympathetic. In both speech and context. Because they made the mistake that George won't make in the books. They've made her utterly and entirely without power in the show. I mean after the walk in the book she is right back to dinner with Kevan. We know reading her what the general gist is. She is no where near as powerless in book as she is in show after the walk that we've read so far. Things may change next time we read of her/from her but right now I'd put any money down she isn't as powerless as she is in show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boastful Knight Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said: Right? Cersei has all the little birds, Robert Strong and the Kingsguard LC on her side. Yet Tommen, margarey and the high sparrow completely got over on her. Without Jamie knowing what his Kingsguard were doing. I also really love how somehow. Out of all the shit Jamie and Cersei have done over the seasons.. Somehow the High Sparrow is the villain. Although I equally dislike everyone in the KL plot, It's true that the show somehow tries to make the High Sparrow the bad guy, when in all honesty, apart from being a religous zealot, he really is no worse than any of the other characters, I sort of see that too. In fact, I'm siding with him in this episode, because he prevented a blodshed with Tommen, while Larry wanted to just murder them all because they made Carol shamewalk, a rather selfish and petty motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Blake Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, The Boastful Knight said: On some level I agree, because real Jaime is one of my favourites, but I take less inconsistency over fan service. Besides, Cogman wrote this episode as well, right? Larry and Carol are more in love with each other than ever before, so I'm almost 100% positive that we won't see real Jaime anytime soon. I wouldn't fault Cogman though, he can only play with the cards he's dealt. The Larry and Carol scene was extremely well written and is at least loyal to the current motives and characteristics of the show characters. I don't think its fair to fault Cogman for D&D's decision to remove the Tyrion/Jaime conflict from the season 4 finale, which directly created Larry. If Jaime knew that Cersei had "been fucking Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy", then he would have actually developed as a character and we wouldn't be in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Into the Weirwood Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, -Ghost- said: There is no way that the LC of the Kings Guard would have no idea what's going on with the King and the FM, with 5 out of the 7 KG in on it. Qyburn controls all of the little birds in KL and he reports to Cersie. This was her plan. It makes no sense. Lol. AND they changed the KG's uniform and didn't even let Jamie know! [irony] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boastful Knight Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ser Blake said: I wouldn't fault Cogman though, he can only play with the cards he's dealt. The Larry and Carol scene was extremely well written and is at least loyal to the current motives and characteristics of the show characters. I don't think its fair to fault Cogman for D&D's decision to remove the Tyrion/Jaime conflict from the season 4 finale, which directly created Larry. If Jaime knew that Cersei had "been fucking Lance, Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy", then he would have actually developed as a character and we wouldn't be in this situation. I don't fault him either. Out of all the writers on the show, apart from GRRM himself, he is the only one who understands the source material on any level. D&D are the real culprits here, as always. And I think Larry existed way before that, we just didn't see him as much. But he was the one who killed his cousin, he was the one who raped Carol. He also seemed to care about Joffrey on some level, which if I remember correctly, the real jaime never did. And more than that, he clearly loved Myrcella and loves Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stouthearted Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 The Sam and Gilly storyline is literally boring as watching paint dry. Sam and Gilly are great minor characters, but this plot is too slow. Sam should be searching for ways to defeat the NK. I am also sick of the everything happening or rather not happening at Kings Landing. Jaime and Cersei plotting and incesting about as usually. Nothing interesting is really happening I feel. Also, does the Book of the Stranger forbid the High Sparrow from taking a bath? He is always dirty and dingy and sweaty looking. He's gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LulaMae Barnes Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 46 minutes ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said: Don't dare call him true Jamie just because he is at Riverrun. Unless he burns Cersei's letter it doesn't matter. CALL HIM LARRY ;o) And that's because he is Cersei's (aka CAROL's) total tool. He is GOD AWFUL! Like grumpy cat with rabies. (By the way is everyone this season trying to copy Obara's "Muh-Oberyns-expression" - Brienne always frowns like a horrible meanie, often Jaime, Davos, Dany and others do too now - it's annoying) Worse and angrier than the almost poised Cersei. His outbreak angered me and made me sad at the same time - because I really like is development in the books (and all the little quarrels the twins have in AFFC - where you can literally see how they fall out with each other slowly). Well - but in the books Jaime knows that Cersei cheated on him - in the show he either doesn't bother or STILL really doesn't know about it (as pretty much the only person in Kings Landing who has never heard of the accusations against the queen). Pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knight in Motley Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 The best line in the the entire episode was Mace Tyrell saying "What just happened?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LulaMae Barnes Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, Lady Stouthearted said: I am also sick of the everything happening or rather not happening at Kings Landing. Jaime and Cersei plotting and incesting about as usually. Nothing interesting is really happening I feel. Yes! Let's all hope that big red comet will come back, fall on Kings Landing and erase everyone and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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