Benjen with Rickon on Skagos?

[BalerionTheCat]

I don't know if it has been suggested this way before, with these arguments, but I believe Benjen is with Rickon on Skagos. This is barely a theory. There are no direct evidences for it, but IMO it fits some bits nicely together.

We know that Wex followed Rickon after Winterfell. Maester Luwin suggested White Harbor or the Umbers, but we don't know exactly where he went:

"Aye, I thought you might," said Osha. "Believe I’ll try the East Gate, and follow the kingsroad a ways."

Probably it was White Harbor, because Wex was caught by Manderly. And Rickon took a boat for Skagos, or so believed Manderly. But where Rickon found his boat is not very important. The question is why going to Skagos?

Manderly was probably not showing any outward support for the Starks. And once in White Harbor, Osha may have changed her mind in seeking Manderly's protection. Skagosi are also Stark bannermen, in theory at least. There are much isolated, and may have seemed a safer perspective for Osha. But it still seems a risky choice. Why not try The Neck and the Reed House? Or somewhere real south, as was Osha's friends initial intention?

Also, finding a boat for Skagos, and a crew willing to take them, if not impossible, should not be that likely or easy.

Tyrion let the oaf tremble for a moment before he answered. "The carrack Summer’s Dream sails on the morning tide. Her master tells me she will call at Gulltown, the Three Sisters, the isle of Skagos, and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea."

And how could Manderly know the boy is on Skagos? So it must not be a trader like the Summer’s Dream, but a specific boat, doing just this liaison.

Whatever the case, a bit of help was necessary. Some newcomer to the books, never known before, could be there by chance, and ready to help. But this late in the story, it would be better to join the loose ends rather than create new ones.

At least one person could know and be willing to help: Bloodraven. He may be aware of Rickon either by his direwolf, Shaggydog, or by his greenseer power. If it is the case, Bloodraven could have sent someone, either to help Rickon find a boat for Skagos, or to provide this boat.

This person could be a native from Skagos. But who could fit better than Benjen? If Benjen is still alive, he must have received help too. North of the Wall, there are few opportunities. Coldhands is Bloodraven's. Together they could have sent Benjen somewhere safe. And that far north, there is not much better than Skagos. And the Skagosi are rumored the remain true to the weirwoods, and the First Men customs, so Bloodraven may have some influence there. Benjen also has the advantage of providing a confident person for Rickon, and explain why he and Osha would agree to go to Skagos.

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I don't know if it has been suggested this way before, with these arguments, but I believe Benjen is with Rickon on Skagos. This is barely a theory. There are no direct evidences for it, but IMO it fits some bits nicely together.

We know that Wex followed Rickon after Winterfell. Maester Luwin suggested White Harbor or the Umbers, but we don't know exactly where he went:

"Aye, I thought you might," said Osha. "Believe I’ll try the East Gate, and follow the kingsroad a ways."

Probably it was White Harbor, because Wex was caught by Manderly. And Rickon took a boat for Skagos, or so believed Manderly. But where Rickon found his boat is not very important. The question is why going to Skagos?

Manderly was probably not showing any outward support for the Starks. And once in White Harbor, Osha may have changed her mind in seeking Manderly's protection. Skagosi are also Stark bannermen, in theory at least. There are much isolated, and may have seemed a safer perspective for Osha. But it still seems a risky choice. Why not try The Neck and the Reed House? Or somewhere real south, as was Osha's friends initial intention?

Also, finding a boat for Skagos, and a crew willing to take them, if not impossible, should not be that likely or easy.

Tyrion let the oaf tremble for a moment before he answered. "The carrack Summer’s Dream sails on the morning tide. Her master tells me she will call at Gulltown, the Three Sisters, the isle of Skagos, and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea."

And how could Manderly know the boy is on Skagos? So it must not be a trader like the Summer’s Dream, but a specific boat, doing just this liaison.

Whatever the case, a bit of help was necessary. Some newcomer to the books, never known before, could be there by chance, and ready to help. But this late in the story, it would be better to join the loose ends rather than create new ones.

At least one person could know and be willing to help: Bloodraven. He may be aware of Rickon either by his direwolf, Shaggydog, or by his greenseer power. If it is the case, Bloodraven could have sent someone, either to help Rickon find a boat for Skagos, or to provide this boat.

This person could be a native from Skagos. But who could fit better than Benjen? If Benjen is still alive, he must have received help too. North of the Wall, there are few opportunities. Coldhands is Bloodraven's. Together they could have sent Benjen somewhere safe. And that far north, there is not much better than Skagos. And the Skagosi are rumored the remain true to the weirwoods, and the First Men customs, so Bloodraven may have some influence there. Benjen also has the advantage of providing a confident person for Rickon, and explain why he and Osha would agree to go to Skagos.

This is an awesome idea, which for some reason has never even crossed my mind. But the fact is, if Benjen is alive, it really can't be beyond the Wall. We have seen the last refuge beyond the Wall, and Bran is in it. And Benjen is not there. If he is still alive, I think Skagos is actually quite an original way of plausibly explaining it.

However, I'm not sure how his survival will impact the need for Jon, Rickon and others to be the last Stark heirs. Or how it will impact Jon leaving the Watch. After all, if Jon can do it, why can't Benjen then, would be the argument.

Benjen will come back, but in my view it has to be much later in the story. But maybe Martin has a way to integrate it all smoothly, with Benjen having been on Skagos all along.

[Nymeria's pack]

My only objection to this theory would hold for nearly any theory of where Benjen is.. If he has any freedom of movement why has he not returned to the Wall? Benjen has not just taken vows but as a character he has always been staunchly loyal to the NW.

But I do like this theory, mostly because it makes Rickon's years away seem just a bit less lonely and frightening, and of course I'm always waiting for Benjen's return.

 

[Slender Aimry Hill]

I have a very good feeling about this idea, yes. Well done. (It does raise the question of how, if and when Benjie returns on the telly, but never mind...)

[MinotaurWarrior]

22 minutes ago, Nymeria's pack said:

My only objection to this theory would hold for nearly any theory of where Benjen is.. If he has any freedom of movement why has he not returned to the Wall? Benjen has not just taken vows but as a character he has always been staunchly loyal to the NW.

But I do like this theory, mostly because it makes Rickon's years away seem just a bit less lonely and frightening, and of course I'm always waiting for Benjen's return.

 

Whose says he has freedom of movement? Maybe he's a skagosi captive? 

[Nymeria's pack]

The OP seemed to suggest that he went to help Rickon.  Now maybe he could be made captive after that, true.  What I said was, if he has freedom of movement.  

[BalerionTheCat]

55 minutes ago, Nymeria's pack said:

My only objection to this theory would hold for nearly any theory of where Benjen is.. If he has any freedom of movement why has he not returned to the Wall? Benjen has not just taken vows but as a character he has always been staunchly loyal to the NW.

I understand this argument. And it gives me the opportunity to say again what I think of the NW vows: If it is to stand on top of a Wall of Ice, to freeze your balls, then it is useless, even for a First Ranger. On different occasions, like the Bolton affair, and the ruin of the 7 kingdoms, doing nothing was the bad thing. Same for the KG and every lords, when the old king became mad and did horrible things.

Benjen's vows is to defend the realms. It should not prevent him to do anything good, if it does not endanger the realms. And if helping Jon and Bran, mean staying hidden on Skagos, then it becomes his duty. Remember what Jojen told Sam: no one should know Bran is alive. So too for Rickon. And keeping Rickon alive may be, Benjen important duty for now. Again, just suppositions.

[Nymeria's pack]

2 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I understand this argument. And it gives me the opportunity to say again what I think of the NW vows: If it is to stand on top of a Wall of Ice, to freeze your balls, then it is useless, even for a First Ranger. On different occasions, like the Bolton affair, and the ruin of the 7 kingdoms, doing nothing was the bad thing. Same for the KG and every lords, when the old king became mad and did horrible things.

Benjen's vows is to defend the realms. It should not prevent him to do anything good, if it does not endanger the realms. And if helping Jon and Bran, mean staying hidden on Skagos, then it becomes his duty. Remember what Jojen told Sam: no one should know Bran is alive. So too for Rickon. And keeping Rickon alive may be, Benjen important duty for now. Again, just suppositions.

I totally agree that there are situations where keeping vows is not necessarily the right thing, and bigger issues come into play.  

However would Benjen forsake the NW for his nephew?  Maybe, but the impression I got was that unless it had real impact in terms of protecting the realms of men, Benjen wouldn't desert the NW for family. Even Jon had trouble when it came to a choice between his vows and his beloved little sister - how likely is it that Benjen would choose his baby nephew over his brothers on the Wall? 

Unless he believes that if the Starks are wiped out, the Wall and the NW will be fatally weakened - then yes I could see him leaving to protect the Stark heir. I think you've kind of talked me into this theory, @BalerionTheCat

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Nymeria's pack said:

I totally agree that there are situations where keeping vows is not necessarily the right thing, and bigger issues come into play.  

However would Benjen forsake the NW for his nephew?  Maybe, but the impression I got was that unless it had real impact in terms of protecting the realms of men, Benjen wouldn't desert the NW for family. Even Jon had trouble when it came to a choice between his vows and his beloved little sister - how likely is it that Benjen would choose his baby nephew over his brothers on the Wall? 

Unless he believes that if the Starks are wiped out, the Wall and the NW will be fatally weakened - then yes I could see him leaving to protect the Stark heir. I think you've kind of talked me into this theory, @BalerionTheCat

I believe Benjen is a hardened brother. He would not choose his family to the detriment of the Kingdom. I believe he took the black, because he believe he shared some responsibility in Lyanna's death. He was the brother close to her age, her first confident and possible accomplice (supposing Lyanna had made plans to escape with Rhaegar). He must think he could have prevented everything. He would be the one to receive a hard lesson in what happens when you put your family (sister) before your duty, your kingdom.

No, if he has not returned, it is not to protect his young nephew, his birth family. It is because Rickon must have some important role later, and Bloodraven instructed him on what to do. He has not to go to the Wall and report to the LC to keep his vows.