[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Wow, hey Maia. Long time no type.

Thing for me is this: I brought up the vision and my former interpretation of it as Theon as an example. At the time, the imagery worked. Tied to a prow, grey lips smiling sadly-- Greyjoy. And again, at the time [ACoK] the only Greyjoys of any textual significance were Balon, Asha, The Damphair and Theon and of the four I surmised it was Theon. The only thing that didn't fit was, as you say, dread, but once more, at that time-- I don't think anyone could've predicted Theon's arc as with a few bad decisions and foolish pride he was looking to turn quite bad. 

So I look at it this way. By the time ACoK was published, Martin knew he was shooting for five books at the time? I mean, he knew the trilogy was out by that point, right, but he hadn't proposed making it a seven book series yet, not that I've heard anyway. So, by the time ACoK was published I was under the impression of the sequence being: AGoT, ACoK, ASoS, ADwD, TWoW et fini. At this point, what you say in your second paragraph makes sense, of course, but I'm not sure it changes my overall opinion to a large extent. Some of the details, sure, but say you're completely right and Martin had decided on this arc of Euron's as he was drafting ACoK. Yet no progression for Euron in ASoS even? I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan and I love the world, the characters, the writing. And working on my own novel, I'm well aware how easily things can grow beyond one's control when you've created a large world that your story inhabits. There's something that pulls on you, as a writer, when that portion of the map that hasn't yet been enveloped into the story beckons, a story whose scope would certainly affect everyone and everywhere to some extent or another. But, hard decisions are also a part of writing. And Martin is a slow writer, no foul in that at all-- but Martin himself has stated on several occasions how he doesn't like working from outlines, and as a fan who would love to see this story completed, I have to say that it's troubling. 

When an author who meant to write three, turned it into five with a gap, then removed the gap and increased the novel count to seven... when that author hasn't in any large way touched upon an allegedly major arc until book six?

Hmn... And now that we're heading toward what's looking more like eight books instead of seven, I'm curious about why, if Euron has always been the design [for a writer who likes to craft organically, no outlines] why he hasn't cut Euron's arc by this point. A lot of it really doesn't make any sense, anyway I look at it.

So when I complain about filler, and bloat, it's because it's an apparent and continuous issue. And instead of seeing Martin do anything about it, he's actually continuing with it despite all these other, newer distractions as well [ HBO, etc] I mean, by the sound of it the Meereenese Knot won't even be resolved until the last third of TWoW... and I'm somehow to believe that Dany and company can join the main plot, and all else besides [including our new big bad] will be dealt with in one more book? It'll be eight books more like, and god forbid it might even be nine. 

Martin has the talent sure, but... I just don't know. My faith is getting thin.

Actually there is Euron progression in book 3. Robb mentions he's returned to the Iron Islands and is making a claim for the kingship.

Book 2 is where GRRM decided to expand his story massively.

I don't doubt that he had Euron and Aegon planned from there just not the exact specifics.

Like I doubt that GRRM planned for Aegon to have some connections to the GC, Bittersteel and likely the Blackfyres

And I can acknowledge that maybe GRRM didn't plan on making Euron a sorcerer 

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

7 minutes ago, bent branch said:

What you have quoted suggests that the battle being prepared for in this chapter has already occurred. I think if people take a look at a map, they will see that it is quite a distance back to Oldtown (this also suggests Euron went right on past on his way to this battle). I really don't think Euron is going to turn around and go back. I think he will continue on to Meereen from this battle.

 

i thought Euron would summon a storm. but i think i like this one more.

Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons, and krakens, and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him.

this foreshadows euron having krakens under his command.

 

[Ruhail]

Love the way Grrm describes the armour, crown and other equipment in general it really makes me lament the shows really cheap and dull costumes and weapons.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

On Monday, 30 May 2016 at 8:30 PM, Lord Varys said:

There are also hints that there at times also people with magical talents among the followers of the Seven (the Elder Brother, for instance).

Wha?

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21 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Magic is fine and good but Euron will have to cross blades with Varys and Illyrio to defeat Aegon. That's not going to be easy.

Nah, Varys & Illyrio have shot their wad, and their ability to effect change is vastly diminished. They work best behind the scenes, but Aegon has stepped onto the stage now, and his fate is out of their hands.

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20 hours ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

but the chapter ends with a sort of hopeful line:

He licked his lips, and tasted salt.

Is Aeron doomed or that line is meant to give him some strengh back?

maybe he makes it out of that battle..

AZOR AHAI

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19 hours ago, jobmartell said:

There has been feelings posted that this chapter might not of been grrms. If so, and this is FF, I'd read whatever she/he has to offer up next.

What? FF? What?

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15 hours ago, a bastard with a harp said:

The one thing I dislike about this chapter is that it shows Euron as a fully dark character. And GRRM seldom presents his characters as such, there is no bad or good, no wrong or right everything is based on which POV you are seeing the history from.

But as it looks, there is nothing of good coming from Euron's actions, not for anyone else but himself.

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12 hours ago, arya_underfoot said:

Any theories on why Euron is obsessed with cutting out tongues? I understand that he needs silence from some of his servants (dusky woman etc).

I wonder about the practicality of that. It seems this chapter explains why a man as crazy as Euron would inspire any loyalty at all, that is, by being very open-handed with the loot. But how many people are willing to trade their tongue for some treasure? Surely he must have at least some loyal compadres aboard the Silence who can still talk.

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10 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

And as for Falia Flowers - she carries Euron's son or daughter in her belly.

Bloody hell, she got pregnant fast. Unless he's got... magic sperm!?

TWOW really is going to be epic

[NotSoSilentSister]

On 30.5.2016 at 7:38 AM, Lord_Ravenstone said:

She's the daugher of death because it took Aerys, Rhaegar and Rhaego to die for her to achieve her destiny 

It's the bodies she had climb over to become who she is 

Stannis, Aegon and the stone beast are the lies she must slay 

Drogo, Euron and Jon Snow are the husbands she will love 

Well, she isn't the daughter of Aerys, Rhaegar and Rhageo - she's the daughter of _death_.

Just as she isn't (necessarily) the bride of Drogo, Euron and Jon Snow, but the bride of _fire_.

It's quite possible that the prophecy uses terms like "daughter" and "bride" as synecdoches, for "kinship" and "alliance" respectively. Dany might have come to love Drogo, but that's not what she married him for.  Don't forget the "fire" part of the sentence. Yes, it may stand for passion - but for Dany, fire is, most of all, power. That's what these "marriages" are about. Maybe Hizdar is missing from that list, because that alliance was more of a dud, and ultimately failed to provide Dany with additional power.

 

[Astromech]

7 hours ago, northernmonkey said:

Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him.

And ideas what the forest refers to? Could it be a sign that Euron gets hold of a dragon?

The burning forest image sounds like a fleet of ships to me. The imagery in that quote screams dragon. Could it actually refer to a dragon or Euron actually binding one for his use?

 

[Good Guy Garlan]

After reading the chapter, I'm more or less convinced this is the last we see of Dampy, mainly because of the "corpse on a prow" prophecy thingy. 

But I have to echo what others said about his ending being weirdly uplifting, with the part about tasting the salt and telling Falia Flowers they'll soon be dining in the Drowned God's watery halls. I had been toying with the idea of the Damphair actually losing his faith after the Kingsmoot and returning to his former self, but this goes in the entirely opposite way. No matter the tortures Euron inflicted upon him, or the visions of the nightshade of the Drowned God dead and Urri telling him there was nothing but worms beneath the sea, Aeron kept his faith until the very end. Or rather, his faith kept him together all along. I guess that explains the sad smile on his (salty) lips. In a way this ending is like the complete opposite of the ending of his previous chapters, when he reached out to the Drowned God and heard only (S)ilence. 

I don't know, I hate the Damphair with a passion, but I thought this ending (if it really was the end of him, and I hope it was) was surprisingly beautiful and unique, even, as I think most of the stories featuring zealot characters like Aeron tend to deal with their questioning or losing their faith, not the other way around. Just please, GRRM, no more Damphair. 

Also, I'm starting to think I know how Euron's going to die: he'll totally drown under the weight of his new fancy armor. There's the irony of the thing: him dying like Balon, suffocating like Haldon (or whatever the greyscale infected brother he killed was called), being "killed" by the Drowned God he insulted, and by trying to imitate Victarion, with his whole thing about wearing heavy armor while at sea. 

Also, in the vision of the Ghost of High Heart Euron is represented as a crow with seaweed hanging from his wings, so maybe that's foreshadowing of Euron's fate by drowning. 

[Paxter Redwyne]

Am i only one who connected woman with flame hands to dusky woman? It would explain euron's poisoned gift to victarion.

Also castle what Euron sacked was said to be on island near Arbor, so these bodies belonged probably to family of some minor lord, vassal of Redwynes. I would be greatly pissed if GRRM actually would kill off so many Redwynes off screen, without even mentioning them.

 

P.S. I hope Grrm won't kill me in winds of winter. 

 

[Lord Varys]

43 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Wha?

The Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle is supposed to have healing hands. And he seems to have healed Sandor Clegane from wounds that clearly appeared to be lethal when Arya left him back in ASoS. Those books are subtle. In addition there is the historical anecdote of the healing hands of Septon Murmison, the last Hand of Aenys I.

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Nah, Varys & Illyrio have shot their wad, and their ability to effect change is vastly diminished. They work best behind the scenes, but Aegon has stepped onto the stage now, and his fate is out of their hands.

I don't buy that at all. They will do anything in their power to ensure that Aegon ascends the throne and remains there. And if Euron tries to mess with Aegon he'll feel their wrath, one way or another. Euron isn't the only guy who can hire a Faceless Man...

3 hours ago, bent branch said:

What you have quoted suggests that the battle being prepared for in this chapter has already occurred. I think if people take a look at a map, they will see that it is quite a distance back to Oldtown (this also suggests Euron went right on past on his way to this battle). I really don't think Euron is going to turn around and go back. I think he will continue on to Meereen from this battle.

Not sure I buy that as a hint that the battle has already happened. Paxter apparently has already come round Dorne and is approaching the Arbor so the idea there would be that this could be an allusion to what might happen, not something that already has happened. News about Euron's victory over the Redwyne fleet should spread quickly and and in very clear fashion. He would want it to spread, so there should be no curious rumors hinting at any of that.

[Lord Varys]

@Good Guy Garlan

I don't think that was the last Aeron chapter. If he dies we'll there with him when it happens. If not, then he'll give us a decent part of the coming battle until he jumps/falls into the sea.

And damn, I actually really like that guy now. I don't want him to die. He was such nuisance back in AFfC and during all those rereads when you couldn't make much sense out of the whole plot but now he really is fun.

[The Sword of the Evening]

I think Aeron has at least another chapter or two as GRRM needs a POV near Euron until he gets to Oldtown where he can use Sam.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

22 minutes ago, The Sword of the Evening said:

I think Aeron has at least another chapter or two as GRRM needs a POV near Euron until he gets to Oldtown where he can use Sam.

It seem that Euron is heading away from Oldtown to Daenerys.

Unless he left to destroy the Redwyne fleet and plans to double back.

The ending for the chapter is pretty good for Aeron but on the other hand I want to see that naval battle with all the magic 

[The Sword of the Evening]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

It seem that Euron is heading away from Oldtown to Daenerys.

Unless he left to destroy the Redwyne fleet and plans to double back.

The ending for the chapter is pretty good for Aeron but on the other hand I want to see that naval battle with all the magic 

Then maybe Aeron sticks around a few more chapters haha

[Veltigar]

1 hour ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

P.S. I hope Grrm won't kill me in winds of winter. 

We'll collectively mourn you  isn't that something to look forward to?

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't buy that at all. They will do anything in their power to ensure that Aegon ascends the throne and remains there. And if Euron tries to mess with Aegon he'll feel their wrath, one way or another. Euron isn't the only guy who can hire a Faceless Man...

However, if the Dusky Woman does turn out to be a FM, Euron is the only one we have seen so far with enough clout to hire a FM to kill someone and then sent them on a very long and arduous journey (while being screwed by Victarion) to complete yet another assignment. Plus, Varys and Illyrio must be willing to pay the FM's price, which might not be something they want to do (and you know, Varys might truly hate magic, which means the FM are even less likely).

Not to say that they aren't powerful players still of course, but I do think their role (and that of LF) is quickly coming to an end. They worked best in the shades, now they'll reap the benefits of their plans for a while, but in the end it will all be for nought I imagine. 

 

[Two Thirds of a Maester]

I think that Aeron will live for quite some time trough the book. It's just a feeling, but something says to me that Euron will crush the Redweyne fleet in such an incredible way that he will presume it was because Aeron, an he will become some kind of "lucky charm" or  something like that. Then he lives enough to go with him wherever he's going and hear the stories about what Euron saw and did when  was in Valiria.

Or maybe, in other hand, Euron will spare Aeron to extend his suffering. Depriving him of his so desired relieve it's a kind of torture that I can easily see Euron enjoying.

Ah, and by the way, I'm new around here. Hope I'm not being some foolish noob haha (and sorry for the poor english, I try my best)

[Arataniello]

Looking at Wikipedia, I see that there was only one Aeron chapter removed from aDwD.  Here is the post from GRRM's blog - 

http://grrm.livejournal.com/169899.html

So it may indeed be the last we see of Aeron, alive at least.

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Veltigar said:

However, if the Dusky Woman does turn out to be a FM, Euron is the only one we have seen so far with enough clout to hire a FM to kill someone and then sent them on a very long and arduous journey (while being screwed by Victarion) to complete yet another assignment. Plus, Varys and Illyrio must be willing to pay the FM's price, which might not be something they want to do (and you know, Varys might truly hate magic, which means the FM are even less likely).

Not to say that they aren't powerful players still of course, but I do think their role (and that of LF) is quickly coming to an end. They worked best in the shades, now they'll reap the benefits of their plans for a while, but in the end it will all be for nought I imagine. 

I don't think Euron had the courage or the stamina to buy a Faceless Man. I think he broke himself one, just as he broke himself some warlocks. The man would have to pay a very high price to get his own brother killed, and I don't really buy the whole idea that the House of Black and White only collects money.

But the Faceless Man thing is just an aspect of it. Varys and Illyrio have the means to remove obstacles to their plans, and assassins would only be one of them. Not to mention that the whole Aegon thing as well as the complications with Dany will actually force Euron the reassess his entire campaign.

Which is why I hope he doesn't attack attack. Regardless what he does there it will most likely cost him people and then he might actually be done much earlier than one would have thought, victory over the Redwynes or not.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

So one of the quotes

" When he laughed, his face sloughed off, and the priest saw that it was not Urri, but Euron’s smiling eye, hidden. "

Another hint that Euron is or is working with faceless men?

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think Euron had the courage or the stamina to buy a Faceless Man. I think he broke himself one, just as he broke himself some warlocks. The man would have to pay a very high price to get his own brother killed, and I don't really buy the whole idea that the House of Black and White only collects money.

 

Isn't the theory he gave the faceless men a dragon egg as price for the hit on Balon. Hence his comment about tossing an dragon egg in the ocean, since Balon was tossed into the ocean.

[The Sword of the Evening]

1 minute ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

So one of the quotes

" When he laughed, his face sloughed off, and the priest saw that it was not Urri, but Euron’s smiling eye, hidden. "

Another hint that Euron is or is working with faceless men?

Do you think he is working with the FM? Or was it just a one time thing (death of Balon, dragon egg, etc)?