[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

[Little Scribe of Naath]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It is at least intriguing. But I have a lot of difficulty imagining Melisandre ever to hook up with Euron of all people. All of Westeros is between them right now, and it is very difficult to see how such an alliance would be happening.

Not completely impossible, though.

I'm still more inclined to believe the woman is either Aeron's mental image of 'the dragon queen' (he has no idea that she is Daenerys Targaryen because Dany does not come up at the Kingsmoot) or it is a hint towards Euron hooking up with Cersei.

Yes, it was just an interesting find which reminded me of this chapter. Maybe it points to Euron hooking up/heavily being associated with R'hllor, not Melisandre specifically? The High Priest Benerro is already backing Dany, after all.

But I doubt it's Cersei, because she is heavily associated with wildfire (green fire) in the books. The tone of the whole chapter also suggested that the  'mate' might be someone with supernatural/magical connections. 

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Yes, it was just an interesting find which reminded me of this chapter. Maybe it points to Euron hooking up/heavily being associated with R'hllor, not Melisandre specifically? The High Priest Benerro is already backing Dany, after all.

Yeah, but Euron is also burning and presumably sacrificing at least one Red Priest so I really don't see the connection there. Especially considering R'hllor is also one the gods that were impaled on the Iron Throne in Aeron's vision.

6 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

But I doubt it's Cersei, because she is heavily associated with wildfire (green fire) in the books. The tone of the whole chapter also suggested that the  'mate' might be someone with supernatural/magical connections. 

Well, there is the chance that George toned down the vision there to make it less obvious. Could be a stretch, though. But Cersei and the West would just be Euron's natural allies if Dany is not coming soon and the Lannisters have a violent fallout with the Tyrells. And I really think there has to be a reason why the hell Euron spared Lannisport, Fair Isle, and the West in AFfC and moved directly against the Reach. Plot-wise this will enable him to strike a deal with Cersei because he has not antagonized the West.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, there is the chance that George toned down the vision there to make it less obvious. Could be a stretch, though. But Cersei and the West would just be Euron's natural allies if Dany is not coming soon and the Lannisters have a violent fallout with the Tyrells. And I really think there has to be a reason why the hell Euron spared Lannisport, Fair Isle, and the West in AFfC and moved directly against the Reach. Plot-wise this will enable him to strike a deal with Cersei because he has not antagonized the West.

When you put it that way, it is quite possible he was looking to ally himself with Cersei. The only catch there is he has to assume (or know somehow) that Tommen dies. 

I was also thinking he moved first against the Reach because was after something in Oldtown and Jaqen H'ghar is probably there to foil his plans? But that's me spitballing.

[Lord Varys]

7 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

When you put it that way, it is quite possible he was looking to ally himself with Cersei. The only catch there is he has to assume (or know somehow) that Tommen dies. 

Oh, I don't think he is planning to strike a deal with Cersei. But if he can't have Dany (because she is presumed dead after the news of Daznak's Pit reach Westeros) then Cersei is the next best thing. He could even marry her considering that she is still fertile and Lady of Casterly Rock in her own right.

7 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I was also thinking he moved first against the Reach because was after something in Oldtown and Jaqen H'ghar is probably there to foil his plans? But that's me spitballing.

Jaqen has a mission in Oldtown but he should have nothing to do with Euron in any sense. He already had that mission, it seems, when he left Arya in ACoK. What's completely unclear is who has dispatched Jaqen to Oldtown. He most likely is after the manuscript Tyrion mentioned in ADwD, 'Blood and Fire, or The Death of the Dragons'. My gut feeling is that the House of Black and White sent him rather than some client of theirs, but that remains to be seen.

The attack on the Reach was just a means to an end. He wanted to secure his hold over the Ironborn and then press on to Meereen. That didn't work out as he planned it and now he has to kill time. He has to deal with the Redwyne fleet now and he most likely will crush them but I doubt he wants to conquer Oldtown thereafter. Without Dany and the dragons he cannot hope to hold Oldtown or conquer the Iron Throne (and that's what he wants).

If Cersei ends up fleeing KL via ship (which should be the only reasonable way because overland she would have to cross the Riverlands and could easily be captured by the Tyrells) she could end up in Euron's power who would most likely be very interested in a bargain with her.

[Liver and Onions]

Part of me hopes it's Cersei, just because of the possibilities of such a team-up. Evil magic Cersei! Tommen and Myrcella would have to be dead (or believed dead, shades of Bran and Rickon, and Arya for that matter. Myrcella's been "swapped" like her, at least for a bit). And the Ironborn are troubling the Tyrells. If Cersei were to blame Margaery for Tommen's possible death, she'd probably side with the devil to get revenge.

[TheReal_Rebel]

On June 14, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Maester Vargo said:

He's not going to Mereen.  If he did, it would be a colossal waste of time since Mereen will be a smoking hole in the ground after Drogon burns it to its foundations. 

I'm hoping he makes for KL ASAP!

[silverthorndale]

EurSei (CerOn?) would be a cool pairing, and I hope it does happen, since I think Cersei will level King's Landing but I don't want her out of the great game just yet. What I'd like to see happen is Cersei is denied trial by combat, admits that Tommen is her incest baby and can't be king, then burns the city, flees with Tommen and joins Euron. This puts her in direct conflict with Tyrion who will be joining Dany, and I'm guessing Euron and Dany will be enemies as well. Euron will eventually be responsible for Tommen's death.

And Cersei's JOY will turn to ASHES in her mouth (Greyjoy!) before Euron kills her. He's the younger brother of Balon, after all.

Tinfoil or fanfic, but it sounds nice to me!

 

This chapter was amazing.

[bent branch]

I think the woman is Quaithe. It is obvious that Euron was near Qarth and Quaithe didn't warn Dany against Euron. She warned Dany against everyone else, but not Euron. I think that is significant.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I can't imagine Euron would be interested in teaming with Cersei, I can't imagine anyone being interested in teaming up with Cersei.

What does Cersei even have to offer at this point? Seems like a merger with a company with a lots of liabilities and very few assets. Not worth it.

[chrisdaw]

On ‎23‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 9:12 AM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Apologies if this has already been posted!

Just came across something interesting today while rereading ADWD. This is from Jon VI, when he meets Melisandre and mistakes her for Ygritte:

The mist rose from her pale flesh, and for a moment it seemed as if pale, sorcerous flames were playing about her fingers. "Take my hand," she said again, "and let me save your sister".

Could it be a hint who the "tall woman with hands of pale fire" is ?

Pale flames = glamours (that was what Mel was doing, glamouring as Ygritte on the spot where she died) and obsidian candles. The mate is a sorceress capable of glamouring and using obsidian candles.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

On Friday, 24 June 2016 at 5:26 AM, Lord Varys said:

But Cersei and the West would just be Euron's natural allies if Dany is not coming soon and the Lannisters have a violent fallout with the Tyrells. And I really think there has to be a reason why the hell Euron spared Lannisport, Fair Isle, and the West in AFfC and moved directly against the Reach. Plot-wise this will enable him to strike a deal with Cersei because he has not antagonized the West.

I think you're most likely right, but I do want to throw out a possibility why Euron would spare the west without necessarily it being to set up a Cersei alliance: by bypassing the Westerlands and the North, the traditional and most recent targets of Ironborn war, Euron is signalling to his men and the realm that he has bigger dreams.

It's audacious: hitting the Shield Islands, raiding the Mander, taking the Arbor and perhaps attacking Oldtown: nobody would've thought this was possible, but Euron's doing it, and this frightens his enemies and emboldens his men. Compare with Hannibal crossing the Alps.

Not to mention, it fits Euron's character: he's mad as a box of frogs, and he wants the Iron Throne, or more; he doesn't care about the little things, and Lannisport to him is perhaps one of those little things.

There's also a strategic element, potentially: if the Redwyne fleet is the only serious naval presence left in Westeros (and as far as Euron knows, it is), then by attacking the Reach he can force a confrontation with it. Whether he's drawing them into a magical trap or not, he at least has taken the initiative and will be able to fight the coming battle on his terms. And if he wins, then he gains naval supremacy over the whole of Westeros.

Move fast, strike hard, win a few early victories and then shock the realm with something audacious: it seems Euron and Jon Connington think alike. (Is Euron = Daario = Jon Connington = Rhaegar = Neo = Freedom?!?)

Like I said, most likely you're right and it's just an excuse to make a coming Euron/Cersei alliance make more sense, but if that doesn't happen there's still plenty of justification for his moves.

I hope I'm not repeating anything that's already been said.

Further thought: if Cersei burns down King's Landing, as some have theorised, how will that affect her potential relationship with Euron? Will he admire her audacity and her evil? Or will he be angry at her for destroying his prize?

[Lord Varys]

@Illyrio Mo'Parties

Well, Lannisport is one of the things Euron promises his Ironborn at the Kingsmoot. In fact, it is the first city he mentions, so this is pretty odd, actually.

I'd say Euron went down to the Shields to win an easy victory and then to press on to Meereen. That was his original plan. In that sense it makes sense for him to skip Lannisport and the West. But from a narrative POV (George already knowing that Euron wouldn't go to Slaver's Bay) it is odd that he didn't decide that the Ironborn would attack the defenseless West.

I don't think Cersei will burn down KL in the books. At least not now. If she did that then Aegon would face massive problems becoming king. The more important problem being that with Varys in the Red Keep and the stashes of wildfire beneath the Great Sept and the Dragonpit already secured by the alchemists (and subsequently destroyed on the Blackwater) it would be effectively impossible for Cersei to burn down the city.

To accomplish this she would have to win the allegiance of Hallyne and his colleagues - and why the hell should they want to help her burn down the city right now while other people (the Tyrells) dominate the politics in KL?

I'm not saying the wildfire might not eventually come back into the story but I don't see that happening in the near future.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Lord Varys

[Unknownfinger]

On 6/10/2016 at 7:06 PM, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Unknownfinger

[Unknownfinger]

The idea of Euron marrying Cersei is a long shot to say the least. Euron is here to let us know the sci fi/horror fueled ACT III has arrived with style. Cersei, like LF and Varys, is a purely political figure and as such she is about to shunted of the main stage as she goes full Mad Queen and firebombs KL. Euron's arc is absolutely linked to Dany's and he will temp her, they may even have sex but in the end she rejects him and melts his eyeballs, so she may or may not be the woman in Damphair's vision. I think it's highly likely Euron had the Faceless Men kill Balon and it makes more than a little sense that a death cult would partner with a guy who thinks he can either make a deal with the Others or find a way to rule over them as Emperor of New Valaryia. 

As for Oldtown Euron is going to destroy that city. If I had to guess I would say he climbs to the top of the Hightower and blows the horn of Joramun there as well. 

[Lord Varys]

@Unknownfinger

From the moment Cersei took Qyburn in her employ and allowed him to create Ser Robert Strong she ceased to be a mundane political figure.

She, as Stannis before her, is willing and able to use black magic to her ends and is thus pretty much in the same category as Euron. In fact, she might eventually become worse because she, unlike Euron, might reach a point where it no longer matters what happens to anyone. Should both Tommen and Myrcella die and Jaime openly betray her there is no reason to believe she'll care what happens to anyone.

Euron, on the other hand, actually seems to want to rule the Seven Kingdoms. But Cersei might want to destroy them.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

18 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Pale flames = glamours (that was what Mel was doing, glamouring as Ygritte on the spot where she died) and obsidian candles. The mate is a sorceress capable of glamouring and using obsidian candles.

I may be forgetting something, but could you elaborate how pale flames/obsidian candles are connected to glamours? 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Little Scribe of Naath

[The Sleeper]

Nice chapter, not many new information though apart from the fact that Euron had captured Aeron immediately after the kingsmoot and he has a magical trap set for the Redwyne fleet.

I'm not quite sold on the presumed destruction of the fleet. For one, if he has that kind of firepower what does he need the dragons for? And for another, he's up against the Hightowers who are arguably the one family in Westeros who are most steeped in magic and are very likely watching him via glass candle.

My opinion is that he will do some damage but nothing like wholesale destruction. Either way the Ironborn have nested all over the place and the Redwyne are unlikely to be interested in anything else than clearing them out.

The point of guys like Euron is to up the stakes. Part of that is what they represent. Euron basically subverts everything. Family? He rapes and kills his brothers, destroys his brother marriage. Tradition? He takes slaves rather than thralls. His people? He has nothing but contempt for them, treats them as disposable and probably leads them knowingly and uncaringly to destruction. I'm not even going to go into concepts like honor and loyalty. The thing is he appears quite conscious and gleeful about it, as if any rule is a personal affront to him and he is trying to prove a point. Plus he certainly fits well with the times.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I think sphinxes represent the Citadel...they have a pair of sphinxes right there...think it like their house sigil lol

 

The Citadel is the riddle, not the riddler.

[Unknownfinger]

On 6/21/2016 at 3:09 PM, Benedict Oathkeeper said:

In answer to the OP. No, he doesn't have to die, right now.  Littlefinger has to die eventually, but it feels more fitting, to me, for him to go out in the uber ascendancy in the game of thrones (smugger than ever, if possible) and then to die at the hands of the White Walkers, despite numerous warnings they were coming, because he just didn't believe in snarks and grumpkins. 

This is a fantasy novel, LF.  Any character that doesn't believe in either (a) snarks or (b) grumpkins is on borrowed time.

This!...although LF does seem to really believe that Harrenhal is cursed or at least he claimed as much to Sansa 

11 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Nice chapter, not many new information though apart from the fact that Euron had captured Aeron immediately after the kingsmoot and he has a magical trap set for the Redwyne fleet.

I'm not quite sold on the presumed destruction of the fleet. For one, if he has that kind of firepower what does he need the dragons for? And for another, he's up against the Hightowers who are arguably the one family in Westeros who are most steeped in magic and are very likely watching him via glass candle.

My opinion is that he will do some damage but nothing like wholesale destruction. Either way the Ironborn have nested all over the place and the Redwyne are unlikely to be interested in anything else than clearing them out.

The point of guys like Euron is to up the stakes. Part of that is what they represent. Euron basically subverts everything. Family? He rapes and kills his brothers, destroys his brother marriage. Tradition? He takes slaves rather than thralls. His people? He has nothing but contempt for them, treats them as disposable and probably leads them knowingly and uncaringly to destruction. I'm not even going to go into concepts like honor and loyalty. The thing is he appears quite conscious and gleeful about it, as if any rule is a personal affront to him and he is trying to prove a point. Plus he certainly fits well with the times.

I think the Hightowers are in over their head. They are a family of armchair wizards that will try to do the right thing and defeat Euron but will either fail or make the coming destruction in and around Oldtown even worse. I am assuming we will find out more about that mysterious oily black stone they build their tower on top off. 

[The Sleeper]

3 minutes ago, Unknownfinger said:

This!...although LF does seem to really believe that Harrenhal is cursed or at least he claimed as much to Sansa 

I think the Hightowers are in over their head. They are a family of armchair wizards that will try to do the right thing and defeat Euron but will either fail or make the coming destruction in and around Oldtown even worse. I am assuming we will find out more about that mysterious oily black stone they build their tower on top off. 

I'd think the opposite. The Highhtowers are sitting in a cache of knowledge for generations, while for all we know Euron never dabbled in magic prior to coming across the warlocks and their shade of the evening.