Jump to content
Free Northman Reborn

[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

Recommended Posts

Just now, HelenaExMachina said:

Just a thought, but I wonder if it is possible that Euron has encountered the Cinnamon Wind, or if Marwyn got out of Oldtown before Euron got too close. Marwyn seems like the sort who would have a pretty good understanding of what is going on around Euron.

George has told us that he has written versions of Meereen chapters in which Marwyn was already there. Unless he completely changed his plans Marwyn is going to get to Meereen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

This chapter is f**** up and creepy but I wouldn't have it any other way. I just knew Damphair's chapters were going to take a level in awesome in TWOW.

Anyway, I really hope he lasts more than just two chapters like people are suggesting.

Also, I'm really starting to wonder how the hell Westeros is going to survive the Others and the second Long Night. I mean seriously with all the destruction caused by the WOT5K and now on top of that all the destruction that will be caused by Stannis vs. Boltons in the North and Aegon (+ the Faith) vs. Dany vs. Lannisters vs. Greyjoys in the south how in the world is whoever's left going to be able to stop the Others realistically speaking? Especially if Dany leaves behind in Essos a trail of sacked Free Cities and with the Riverlands still in anarchy?

What are the Others going to be able to do about dragons raining down fire from above? No amount of animated corpses or ice spiders matters against that. Short of them having their own ice dragons (plausible) Westeros always holds the upper hand in my mind. The dragons need to die (or turn to stone) for the Others to become a challenge, for things to really get dire. Which I think is what Euron is for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

George has told us that he has written versions of Meereen chapters in which Marwyn was already there. Unless he completely changed his plans Marwyn is going to get to Meereen.

That's something of a relief then. I wasn't really sure how the timelines matched up, with Sam's arrival and this Aeron chapter. I was rather hoping Marwyn would slip past though, because interesting as I think an interaction between him and Euron would be, I really think he needs to reach Dany, and warn her of the Others (and possibly Euron too)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

That's something of a relief then. I wasn't really sure how the timelines matched up, with Sam's arrival and this Aeron chapter. I was rather hoping Marwyn would slip past though, because interesting as I think an interaction between him and Euron would be, I really think he needs to reach Dany, and warn her of the Others (and possibly Euron too)

Dany is safe.

She is the Slayer of Lies.

We'll see her making eunuchs out of Stannis, Aegon, and Euron, all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, Euron took Shield Islands, and may soon raid Oldtown too, and he gave it to his vassals. The Redwyne fleet which is the major sea-power of the Crown, is sailing West to capture Euron's minions. Doesn't that mean King's Landing will soon be undefended from an attack by the sea? Looks like Aegon will win the throne first, only to be defeated by Euron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hos the Hostage said:

So, Euron took Shield Islands, and may soon raid Oldtown too, and he gave it to his vassals. The Redwyne fleet which is the major sea-power of the Crown, is sailing West to capture Euron's minions. Doesn't that mean King's Landing will soon be undefended from an attack by the sea? Looks like Aegon will win the throne first, only to be defeated by Euron.

There is still Aurane Waters' fleet (albeit small) and Salvador Saan (minimal) that could inflict damage on any Ironborn fleet that is heading for King's Landing.  And the Manderely ships hidden upriver, as reported in a Davos' chapter.  Plus whatever naval strength ends up coming to Westerns from Essos after events in Slaver's Bay. 

I wonder if GRRM is not tying himself up into a naval equivalent of the Meereenese Knot - multiple fleets whose movements and timings have to be synched up correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

That's something of a relief then. I wasn't really sure how the timelines matched up, with Sam's arrival and this Aeron chapter. I was rather hoping Marwyn would slip past though, because interesting as I think an interaction between him and Euron would be, I really think he needs to reach Dany, and warn her of the Others (and possibly Euron too)

I seem to recall that in the last Samwell chapter in AFFC, Euron and his Ironborn were starting to close in on the Arbor, taking smaller islands nearby the Arbor and the Shield Islands. If Euron here has already taken (part of) the Arbor, it would place the chapter after Sam's in Feast, and thus, after Marwyn's departure from Oldtown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I don't think he'll attack KL before he has his dragons or dragon queen.

Probably. There is so much going on KL without Euron's help, anyway. But where is Euron currently sailing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Hos the Hostage said:

So, Euron took Shield Islands, and may soon raid Oldtown too, and he gave it to his vassals. The Redwyne fleet which is the major sea-power of the Crown, is sailing West to capture Euron's minions. Doesn't that mean King's Landing will soon be undefended from an attack by the sea? Looks like Aegon will win the throne first, only to be defeated by Euron.

That is the time line question. But again - Aeron having visions/dreams of Euron on the Iron Throne isn't the same as Euron actually sitting the Iron Throne.

Not to mention that the Iron Throne isn't the kingdom. I can see Euron taking KL and the Iron Throne from Aegon but not catching Aegon there.

The man just wants to be king. But he has not yet succeeded.

He always was a big player. The difference is that now we all see that he is big business, not some charlatan. However, that doesn't he is going to win. Magic is fine and good but Euron will have to cross blades with Varys and Illyrio to defeat Aegon. That's not going to be easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The FM are not with Euron. They believe that death is a gift, something sacred, or something you pay for. Euron believes in slaughtering for free and for fun.

I think it much more likely that they are in cahoots and that the Others play into that somehow. Or at the very least Euron has the help of a rogue faction of FM. Even if Euron, as you write, only believes in slaughtering for free and for fun, that would harldy matter to the FM. Their key belief is that death is a gift, they don't care how you get to that death. It's clearly established that they don't care at all about justice (otherwise they would never have asked for the waif to join them) or any sort of goal that would benefit the living. They just want the gift to be awarded to as many people as possible. Seems like Euron and the Others would be a great fit as allies. And if not allies, at least they wouldn't feel embarrassed helping him achieve his goals, if it resulted in a high deathtoll.

2 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I see no reason why the minor dragonlord Targs would need VS armor. For one thing, they are "blood of the dragon" and seem to have a tendency to think they can't be killed by fire...they're wrong of course. I could see someone else--someone planning to challenge the dragonlords of Valyria--secretly buying up VS in small quantities and then having a master smith in Qohor make armor. That still doesn't explain the runes though. 

We don't know where that particular fantasy came from. I certainly don't think Aenar and any of the Targaryens with dragons were stupid enough to belief that. Living around dragons 24/7 would have taught them otherwise. Which means that buying that armour, if it really made you fireproof, was probably a really good investment. It seems the most logical way of using a dragon after all, the accounts of the Dance show that those beasts became a whole lot less lethal after they lost their riders (since they lacked human direction). Attacking the riders with dragonflame seems the natural way of neutralizing threats posed by other dragonlords. 

Qohor was also a Valyrian colony, so illegal dragon armour doesn't seem like something they would do.

13 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

What are the Others going to be able to do about dragons raining down fire from above? No amount of animated corpses or ice spiders matters against that. Short of them having their own ice dragons (plausible) Westeros always holds the upper hand in my mind. The dragons need to die (or turn to stone) for the Others to become a challenge, for things to really get dire. Which I think is what Euron is for.

I think you're a bit too quick saying that. If the Others can controll the weather, they might seriously hamper the effectiveness of Dany's dragons. If they summon up a huge snowstorm, that would hamper their effectiveness (just as Meraxes was less usefull during the Last Storm) and probably make it hard for them to fly around. 

We also can't be certain about the battleground and how that effect things. Nor can we be certain about other tricks the Others have up their sleeves. Just focussing on the ice spiders, what if GRRM made them into some freakishly strong fantasy version of a jumping spider? That's not as good as flying, but it would mean that the dragons couldn't carpet bomb the shit out of the others and then safely retreat, because jumping ice spiders could attack them while they were making their bombing runs. 

2 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

But...they may still be on the job for him. A dragon egg (which we seem to be assuming was the payment he made) should buy more than the death of one self-proclaimed king. I could be wrong about that, but it seems to me that he might have been able to bargain two deaths with that kind of payment. 

Unless the FM have blatantly lied about their MO (which, seeing how this is ASOIAF, is definitely possible), you should be wrong. The FM model of payment is simple. You give up your dearest possession (be that all your gold, a dragon egg, your firstborn son, whatever) and you get one death in return. Let's also not forget that dragon eggs are a rare commodity, but they aren't priceless. Illyrio giving Dany three petrified eggs was seen as a great gift, but not as something truly amazing. I think Valyrian Steel swords trade at a much higher price in this world.

I also don't know if the FM would accept the egg as payment anyway if this was a standard FM contract. After all, the thing Euron seems to love the most in this world... is Euron Greyjoy himself. And he's still alive and kicking. A sort of alliance seems much more plausible from that perspective. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't intend to be king without Dany so far as he has said. It's her and her dragons, then the kingship. We always thought Dany would have the Ironborn on her side during the dance, there's nothing in this chapter to suggest change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The imagery of all known gods being impaled on Iron Throne swords is just so telling.

In the endgame, there will be only one true religion that everyone will convert to, and Bran will be behind it. Note that Old Gods and Many Faced God religions are not represented. Arya will start her own cult of assassins brainwashing its members to kill enemies of the state in such fashion that they will feel it is right, kind of like "giving the gift" philosophy of Faceless Men. 

And I am betting that this whole Theon's adventure will eventually bring him to become the High Priest of this new religion, whatever it will be. He will Bran The God's agent and become Moses figure for devastated and misguided ironborn survivors who will need a leader to lead them through tough times (Hammer of the gods is mentioned in this chapter, and I think that a moon meteor, thanks to LmL's awesome essays, will hit proximity of Iron Isles, bringing "Hammer of the Waters" down on Iron Isles and drowning its population). He will lead them to Cape Kraken in the North as "Promised Land" and bend the knee to King of Winter, Jon Stark, who is "what is dead may never die but raises again harder and stronger".

The mention of how Euron's newly appointed Shield Islands lords will get all the blame in case they lose brings me to a thought that Garlan Tyrell will indeed take the islands back, but at terrible cost - there is a foreshadowing in TWOIAF of Harras Harlaw slaying Garlan with Valyrian steel Nightfall. There goes down one powerfull Tyrell, which will start the "domino" effect of rose destruction.

Damn, if Euron destroys Redwyne and Hightower fleet that creeps up his rear commanded by Lord Leyton's sons (he is using merchant ships in his fleet, so he clearly has some kind of plan, maybe to get close to them without suspicion or something), he will truly become the unstoppable at sea. This will mean the Arbor and Oldtown are ripe for taking.

Also, this chapter just confirmed to me how Euron does not really gives a fuck about ironborn. He is using them to his purpose - and that purpose is connected to magic. So he would care less if all ironborn end up dead after he accomplishes his goals. He will manipulate the nature of ironborn of pillage and plunder. And whatever magic he is after I bet it is in the Citadel of Oldtown.

And I will bet that if Euron was able to find Valyrian steel armor during his trips, he will find some glass candles as well. For what, you might ask? To coordinate his actions with certain Faceless Man already in the city who might also enlist the help of former comrades from Harrenal, Brave Companions. They might coordinate, for example, the plan to open the gates of Oldtown during the night and catch everyone unaware. No one really knows what Jaqen is really after, but I do not think it is the book like everyone suggest. He is confirming an intel sent to him by Euron via glass candles regarding this "magic". Once Jaqen confirms that it is indeed in the Citadel, Euron will initiate his plan of attacking Oldtown, specifically the Citadel.

I think there is a specific reason for Hightower's base being made of that black oily stone. If you think about it, once you set the base of this black oily stone on fire, the whole tower will set on fire. But I do not think it will be done by Euron, I think the whole city of Oldtown will get attacked second time and burn for good once Dany comes with her dragons and khalasar to punish Hightowers for allying with fAegon.

Also, keep in mind Euron's words to Aeron about these days being last, and that Long Night is coming. To me that just seals Euron being manipulated and sent visions by some powerful force (in my opinion, it is Bran from the future who is in fact Three Eyed Crow). He has probably seen visions about the future and his role in it, so now he works in order to accomplish these "dreams" he had. Unfortunately for him, he is called Crow's Eye, and there is a particular crow of the Night's Watch in Oldtown training in archery lessons like on his family sigil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

 

You aren't the first to suggest this, but it seems very unlikely to me. The Iron Fleet explicitedly belongs to Victarion loyalists. It would be strange if they chose to betray Vick all of a sudden. And then there is the question of coordination. How would they know when to break away from Vick's main column at exactly the right time to attack the Redwyne's in the rear? Even if they were equipped with glass candles to communicate with Euron, that would be hard, seeing that they would also need detailed intell on the movements of the Redwyne's. From a practical PoV it just seems unfeasible, while the storm explanation given in the novel is very plausible.

One thing to keep in mind here is that Euron is using the IB. Think about the four he left behind on the Shield Islands. Euron expects them to be defeated and he doesn't care, at all. And part of the reason he chose at least one of those guys he left behind was because he was one of Vicky's staunchest supporters. Euron isn't going to take all the rest of the IB with him to Meereen. He will point them at target like Oldtown and leave them and the Greenlanders to their fates. Notice that all the men that were given the Shield Islands were not Euron's men. They were the trusted associates of someone else, including Vicky. Euron used the Shield Islands to weaken the support of his rivals. Vicky does have a high degree of support and that is why even Euron can't go after him directly. This is why he sent Vicky to Meereen ahead of him. He expected the autumn storms would break up the IF and have a weakened Vicky limping into Meereen. Moqorro has made Vicky stronger than Euron will be anticipating. (Although I do think Vicky's ultimate "glorious death" will be dragonfire.)

Euron has without a doubt infiltrated the IF and Vicky can't trust all of the men under him and from what we've seen, I have no doubt that Euron can communicate with those ships that have broken off from Vicky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

What are the Others going to be able to do about dragons raining down fire from above? No amount of animated corpses or ice spiders matters against that. Short of them having their own ice dragons (plausible) Westeros always holds the upper hand in my mind. The dragons need to die (or turn to stone) for the Others to become a challenge, for things to really get dire. Which I think is what Euron is for.

The dragons won't amount to much against the Others when you remember that Dany's are really young (AKA nowhere near the DoD or the Conquest) and the Others have magic as well as the weather on their side, which means my question of how Westeros will even have a chance against the Others once there's only one claimant left is still valid. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has Aeron any chance to survive the whole thing?

The chances are very bad indeed, but then - he is tied to the prow of a ship so if, for whatever reason, said prow shut break of the ship and he ends up falling into the sea the right way he has a fighting (or rather: swimming) chance.

And if he is washed ashore he could even end up assisting the Hightowers in their fight against Euron, or something of that sort.

There is even a chance that he might convert again, this time to the Seven ;-).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

I think it much more likely that they are in cahoots and that the Others play into that somehow. Or at the very least Euron has the help of a rogue faction of FM. Even if Euron, as you write, only believes in slaughtering for free and for fun, that would harldy matter to the FM. Their key belief is that death is a gift, they don't care how you get to that death. It's clearly established that they don't care at all about justice (otherwise they would never have asked for the waif to join them) or any sort of goal that would benefit the living. They just want the gift to be awarded to as many people as possible. Seems like Euron and the Others would be a great fit as allies. And if not allies, at least they wouldn't feel embarrassed helping him achieve his goals, if it resulted in a high deathtoll.

<snip

I respectfully disagree. If they were just for death, any death, all-death-all-the-time, then Arya would not have been punished for offing Dareon, and they wouldn't have the rule about not having to kill someone you've met.  They don't just go around killing everyone. The people who come to them for their own deaths are accepted, but they decide whether or not to take the paying jobs on a case-by-case basis, and they make people give up something it hurts to give up in payment so that their clients aren't taking "the gift" lightly.

The waif had no life to speak of. Looking like a child for the rest of her life, in that world, would have guaranteed a lousy future for her. At the HOBAW she lived in relative security and comfort and even learned some useful things.

It is not "clearly established" that they don't have any sort of goal other than killing people. It IS clearly established that there's a great deal we still don't know about them. But we do know they take death very seriously, and if as you say they just want to give the gift to everyone, why would they ally with a force that denies the sanctity of death by bringing the dead back as disposable infantry? Seems to me they'd be against that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Has Aeron any chance to survive the whole thing?

The chances are very bad indeed, but then - he is tied to the prow of a ship so if, for whatever reason, said prow shut break of the ship and he ends up falling into the sea the right way he has a fighting (or rather: swimming) chance.

And if he is washed ashore he could even end up assisting the Hightowers in their fight against Euron, or something of that sort.

There is even a chance that he might convert again, this time to the Seven ;-).

I thought the worms in his dreams were references to him dying on land, what I would have thought is hit greatest fear but then I'd thought if that were the case he'd make mention of it. But it seems like the worms are Euron infecting his dreams.

I think we have to get another chapter, else how do we get to see the battle? Would GRRM not show the battle after this build up? And if the battle is all from Aeron's POV tied to the prow, that would be a pretty limited chapter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The worms thing is a reference that there is no DG watery halls... and he won´t feast with his god.

another vision to shake Aerons faith.

but the chapter ends with a sort of hopeful line:

He licked his lips, and tasted salt.

 

Is Aeron doomed or that line is meant to give him some strengh back?

maybe he makes it out of that battle..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I vaguely remember  a comment by GRRM about there being two chapters of Aeron moved out of aDwD - if correct, it may be that there is only one more Aeron chapter (covering a naval battle?) before we see the last of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×