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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I've read that. But what use would the Faceless Men would have for a dragon egg? As Braavosi they are, presumably, not very interested in the dragons. Aside from ways to kill them that is. And Euron's entire grand plans would actually trigger their revolt and disgust.

The Faceless Men destroyed Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer - they would have no interest in a guy trying to conquer the world with dragons. And if the prosperity of Braavos is any indication they also have no interest in destroying their surroundings and the society they live in for no good reason.

And the symbolism there is - at least a little bit far-fetched if you ask me.

Sorry, but that is contradictory to anything the Kindly Man and the Waif have taught Arya so far. They see death as one face/aspect of pretty much every deity there is, so there is no need for them to enter into some sort of religious war or crusade.

The whole god imagery is in this Aeron chapter simply because Aeron is a religious nut and thus thinking in such categories, and Euron likes to mess with his mind with his whole 'I'm god' talk. That's his way to get into the head of his stupid little convert brother. But there is no reason to believe Euron has actual plans to wage a war against the gods or something as ridiculous as that. He uses the 'holy men' for his ritual and presents this whole thing as if he was stronger than the gods combined to impress his superstitious people, but he himself doesn't believe all that crap.

I think I once put forth the Faceless Man-Euron theory as I saw it:

Euron captures the ship of the Qartheen warlocks. The Qartheen warlocks have talents. Euron captures other ships and/or has other prisoners aboard the Silence, and one of them happens to be a Faceless Man. The warlocks help him reveal him/her as what he/she truly is, and then Euron breaks him/her. Either by using the spells the warlocks can work or with the help of his own magic.

If you want to speculate a little more this all could tie neatly into the whole Dany thing. If we assume that Braavos/the Faceless Men might consider the return of dragons/magic a threat then a Faceless Man could already have been on his way to Qarth back in ACoK/ASoS because the Faceless Men might have the magical means to uncover things quickly (not to mention the Braavosi traders all across the world). So he might actually have high-jacked a guy who was supposed to kill Dany originally.

I'm not sure the time line allows Euron to capture the Qartheen warlocks on their way to Pentos, to go to Braavos to hire some Faceless Men and to reach Pyke in time for his rendezvous with Balon in ASoS (before the Red Wedding!).

Not to mention that Euron also knows by the time of the Kingsmoot that Daenerys Targaryen didn't go to Pentos but rather to Meereen in Slaver's Bay. The idea that this news traveled this quickly to the Iron Islands of all places is very far-fetched.

You can try to built some elaborate case about Euron being heavily interconnected with virtually everybody outside of Westeros but I really think such cases are built on salt.

Just don't watch the show. That's doable. I honestly had forgotten about the crappy Ygritte hide-and-seek plot in season 2 until I remembered this stuff thanks to @Veltigar mentioning the show above. You really can get this stuff out of your system if you try.

I Just can wait for ages...I watch it and hate myself at the same time. 

 

By the way, about Rans theory of Euron being a pivotal agent of the others and probably a fallen greenseener...

I would had expected him to be seen in some of Brans latest show visions with Bloodraven, since he has seen most of the key players in the future major development, and important events in the past regarding children and others. Euron might help making worst the big mess the south is, but I dont see him as such an important character. And Rans assumption would be to big for the show to skip
Edited by Señor de la Tormenta

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13 hours ago, SeanF said:

In my view, Euron is possessed.  Only a complete fool could wish to be an enemy of every single god and system of magic in this world - or else someone who is possessed.

My impression is that Euron hardly cares if he achieves his ostensible goals;  he just likes to make the world burn.

 
 

No way. He has just figured out what Martin has been hinting at all along: There are no gods. Euron even says hr believes in no gods in the chapter. They are all impaled on his throne. The only god he seems to worship, if any, is the god of death.

Thinking about it, the FM, and the HoBaW, also have a similar worldview as Euron. But we don't think of them as "possessed." :) 

Edited by House Southwell
lessening bluntness

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I haven't read the whole thread yet, but, while I like the idea of Euron being an agent of the Others (or something similar), I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to introduce him and being such a part of the main storyline at this point. It's not like Aegon being somehow mentioned since the beginning. I think there is a relationship, but not as he's his puppet.

But I think that, somehow, he was supposed to be such, and he went mad. Maybe BR or anyone tried to give him visions and failed, for some reason.

I definitely need to re-read the HotU visions Dany had before analysing this episode, tbh. There is something about those visions that we might have skipped. Damn, I need to read the whole Squid arc.

I don't think that corpse on the prow is Aeron, and I doubt it's Euron. I think a character will be put there after Euron wins. I wonder who.

IT WONT BE JON CONNINGTON SHUT UP LALALALA <O>

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16 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but, while I like the idea of Euron being an agent of the Others (or something similar), I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to introduce him and being such a part of the main storyline at this point. It's not like Aegon being somehow mentioned since the beginning. I think there is a relationship, but not as he's his puppet.

But I think that, somehow, he was supposed to be such, and he went mad. Maybe BR or anyone tried to give him visions and failed, for some reason.

I definitely need to re-read the HotU visions Dany had before analysing this episode, tbh. There is something about those visions that we might have skipped. Damn, I need to read the whole Squid arc.

I don't think that corpse on the prow is Aeron, and I doubt it's Euron. I think a character will be put there after Euron wins. I wonder who.

IT WONT BE JON CONNINGTON SHUT UP LALALALA <O>

I agree with him being an agent of the Others because it makes sense for Bloodraven to have his instrument and the Others, through probably another powerful green seerer, to have their own. Do we know any other powerful sorcerer, perhaps not a character in the novels, who would fit this bill? 

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2 minutes ago, Winter Blues said:

I agree with him being an agent of the Others because it makes sense for Bloodraven to have his instrument and the Others, through probably another powerful green seerer, to have their own. Do we know any other powerful sorcerer, perhaps not a character in the novels, who would fit this bill? 

I agree with this parallel, it's just that I don't see Euron being such. I feel like then he shuld have been introduced earlier. But I, of course, could be wrong, and he was foreshadowed before. I def. need to reread before debating more or I'm totally gonna lose :lol: 

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3 hours ago, Arataniello said:

Looking at Wikipedia, I see that there was only one Aeron chapter removed from aDwD.  Here is the post from GRRM's blog - 

http://grrm.livejournal.com/169899.html

So it may indeed be the last we see of Aeron, alive at least.

Yaaaaaaaas!

You know, I read the chapter again now that the novelty wore off and I sort of...hated it? I guess I liked what little character development of Aeron we got here, and the visions and Euron's collection of priests were interesting, but the rest was so disappointing. Like, this is Ramsay and Reek on steroids. The character of Euron lost whatever nuanced he could've had and now is just another run of the mill psycho rapist. Yawn, what else is new? He's basically Ramsay with ships and more fantasy gear. Reminds me of that Adventure Time episode where Finn fights in an infinite train to get weapons and every time Jake sees him he's got more and more powerful magic items. I mean, he got Cersei'd. He was a psychopath killer all along, ever since he was young! Now he's simultaneously cliched and ridiculously over the top. 

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17 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

He's basically Ramsay with ships and more fantasy gear.

Seems absurd claims ala 'Ramsay is Joffrey 2.0!!' are persisting.

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4 minutes ago, Red Helm said:

Seems absurd claims ala 'Ramsay is Joffrey 2.0!!' are persisting.

Hey, man, long time no see! :cheers:

Joffrey was never in Ramsay's league, that's just a show thing. But in this chapter Euron is in full on Ramsay mode. He's Ramsay minus the flaying and daddy issues. He's even making his own Reeks; Pyat Pree is halfway there with his "Pree!" shouting. 

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57 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Hey, man, long time no see! :cheers:

*eyes narrow*

I am watching you, Garlan. My eyes are locked onto you, and unlike Euron's neither one is smiling.

Quote

But in this chapter Euron is in full on Ramsay mode. He's Ramsay minus the flaying and daddy issues. He's even making his own Reeks; Pyat Pree is halfway there with his "Pree!" shouting. 

Euron's cruelty is casual and serves a grander purpose, whereas Ramsay makes it a twisted art, does it for his pleasure, and in performing his sick art outright nullifies everything that makes a person who they are, and Euron has done nothing close to nullifying a person to Ramsay's extreme. There's also the fact Euron is representing a form of ascension for the Ironborn, whereas Ramsay is degeneration for both House Bolton and the North. I also find the warlock and Reek equivalency to be a poor one. 

Those few things spring to mind without much thought so sorry for the lack of paragraphs of this and that. Some very broad surface similarities do not validate the claim in my view. It's like saying Randyll and Tywin are the same because they have both demonstrated tremendous cruelty and are seasoned insofar as war is concerned... yet when you dig beneath the surface you find the two really are not alike at all.

Edited by Red Helm

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1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Hey, man, long time no see! :cheers:

Joffrey was never in Ramsay's league, that's just a show thing. But in this chapter Euron is in full on Ramsay mode. He's Ramsay minus the flaying and daddy issues. He's even making his own Reeks; Pyat Pree is halfway there with his "Pree!" shouting. 

So basically Euron is Show!Ramsay villain sue?

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3 hours ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

I Just can wait for ages...I watch it and hate myself at the same time. 

 

By the way, about Rans theory of Euron being a pivotal agent of the others and probably a fallen greenseener...

 

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I would had expected him to be seen in some of Brans latest show visions with Bloodraven, since he has seen most of the key players in the future major development, and important events in the past regarding children and others. Euron might help making worst the big mess the south is, but I dont see him as such an important character. And Rans assumption would be to big for the show to skip

I wouldn't be using the show as a metric of where TWOW is going 

the show producers have already said that aside from a few key things, the show will not spoil the books

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2 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Yaaaaaaaas!

You know, I read the chapter again now that the novelty wore off and I sort of...hated it? I guess I liked what little character development of Aeron we got here, and the visions and Euron's collection of priests were interesting, but the rest was so disappointing. Like, this is Ramsay and Reek on steroids. The character of Euron lost whatever nuanced he could've had and now is just another run of the mill psycho rapist. Yawn, what else is new? He's basically Ramsay with ships and more fantasy gear. Reminds me of that Adventure Time episode where Finn fights in an infinite train to get weapons and every time Jake sees him he's got more and more powerful magic items. I mean, he got Cersei'd. He was a psychopath killer all along, ever since he was young! Now he's simultaneously cliched and ridiculously over the top. 

Ramsay is an idiot that can't control himself, has daddy issues and is a minor villain. Ramsay's closer to Vargo Hoat than Euron.

Euron is an intelligent cruel man focused on gaining ultimate power.

 

Euron is closer to Saruman of the story.

i suggest you read what PQ had to say since he predicted that this is where Euron was going years ago: 

http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/137524337813/because-there-is-apparently-nothing-i-like-more-in

this is another quote from a post I like of his: 

Now that is an excellent question. It’s a truly staggering historical irony that a silver-haired purple-eyed dragonrider has devoted herself to ending slavery. “Dracarys” comes from the language of the Valyrian slavers, and yet their descendant turns it into a symbol of slave revolts! This is a crucial aspect of Dany’s character, and I think Euron will bring it to the fore.

In @madeinmyr’s instantly iconic turn of phrase: “If you think Euron is over the top, give him silver-blonde hair and purple eyes and you’ll have a collective portrait of the class that ruled the world for thousands of years.” For my part, I’ve arguedthat Euron isn’t culturally Ironborn at all, as we see in the sheer contempt he rains down on “his” people and their traditions at every turn. To the extent that this postmodern supervillain has pledged himself to a single culture, it is indeed that of Valyria, and as with the elves in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld (particularly the pointedly titled Lords and Ladies), the Valyrians’ glamo(u)r doesn’t change the fact that they treated all other beings like their playthings. Euron reminds us by his example that this supposed peak of civilization was in fact a den of monsters, long before the Doom made that literal…and I think he will unintentionally provide that same revelation to Dany, who hasn’t consciously wrestled with this aspect of her heritage even as she’s made war on it. 

 
In short, Euron is Dany’s foil, and I think GRRM has laid the groundwork for their confrontation by having Euron epitomize not only the Valyrian worldview, but also the horrorshow-helix running through Dany’s storyline. Like the Dothraki khals, Euron’s a far-ranging slaver who believes all cultures are subordinate to him. Like the Undying of Qarth, Euron has steeped himself in dangerous magic at cost of his soul…and indeed, there’s a good chance he lived in the city for a time, given XXD’s mention of “Urrathon Night-Walker,” a name that fits Euron eerily well. He might also be the “corsair king” who was coming to buy Unsullied at Astapor before Dany broke their chains (that’s the Euron/Dany divide in a nutshell right there). 
 

Plus, of course, Euron’s hunting Dany, and not only directly via Victarion, but magically, as we see in Moqorro’s fires…

“Others seek Daenerys too … One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood.”

…and in her dreams.

Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her…but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.

Why is he doing so? Because Euron Greyjoy wants to do more than rule the Iron Islands; he wants to do more than raid and pillage; he wants to do more even than “take Westeros.” He wants to resurrect the Valyrian Empire using the Others as his shock troops (“cold as ice”), and he needs dragons and their silver-haired purple-eyed mother to do it. (Fire and Ice, together at last.) When Dany refuses his proposal and burns him alive, she will prevent the Evil Empire’s return, the scion of Old Valyria using its own defining weapon to burn its heinous, hideous legacy to the ground. 

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Fuck me, I wrote a long ass reply to a lot of people but the site keeps logging me out and I lost it and I don't feel like typing it again. 

*sad trombone noise*

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15 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Ok does this chapter confirm somewhat that the crumbling tower by the sea in Melisandre's vision are the Hightowers of Oldtown?

Maybe. Didn't Dany see something similar? :dunno: 

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I don't think Euron is in service to anyone other than Euron.  His overlarge ego and unruly self-grandiosity would prevent him from being an agent of anyone other than himself.

As for going to Valyria, if anyone was crazy enough to try and actually pull it off, Euron is that person. I think he's sailed to places that are beyond the known boundaries of the world.  That said, it doesn't mean that I necessarily believe his claim that he actually did go to Valyria.

 

Edited by Red Raven

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50 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Fuck me, I wrote a long ass reply to a lot of people but the site keeps logging me out and I lost it and I don't feel like typing it again. 

*sad trombone noise*

The administrators smile on me Garlan, for no man is astuter than I; from forums to wikis, when men read my comments, they rep.

Edited by Red Helm

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On May 29, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Ran said:

Tall, terrible bride with hands of white fire... all this shade of the evening business, the killing of gods...

His eye is finally described, his bloody eye.

Who else is said to have red eyes at times? Those destined to be greenseers.

And then...

 

 

I think it's been suggested before, somewhere, but I think this underscores some substance to the notion that Euron was born a dreamer... and was twisted by something or someone (the heart of winter and its spears?) into essentially becoming (probably without any real awareness) an agent of the Others. The bride? A reference to the corpse queen, perhaps, some notion in his head that drives him?

Hrm.... is his penhcant for mutes a way to make "wights" of his own?

Wow!

Could Dany on Drogon  be the tall terrible bride with hands of white fire?  Danny marries Euron for his fleet and sitting on Drogon fries him. From his POV she looks like her hands are flame?

Couldnn't be Brienne as Azor Ahai?

Euron clearly wants submission and subservience.

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On 30-5-2016 at 2:10 AM, Tucu said:

Vyseris, Stannis, Rhaegar, Aegon and Rhaego are referenced by visions in the same paragraph. They can't all be related to marriage.

They're not, because each set of three visions is basically capped with a different title.

Viserys, Rhaego, Rhaegar -> daughter of death

Stannis, Aegon, stone beast -> slayer of lies

Silver, Greyjoy prow, Jon's blue rose -> bride of fire

Only the last three are related to Dany as a bride, and thus marriage.

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I find it interesting that by drinking shade of evening you start having visions. Since Euron drunk so much of it, I wonder what he have saw. 

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