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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

And that's what I think Euron is really for, to destroy this expectation. Euron is going to ruin Drogon, he's going to make Drogon unusable to Dany as a weapon against the Others.

Euron could actually slay Drogon if his Valyrian armor is any good for that kind of thing, and if he ends up getting a Valyrian steel sword. Those should cut like butter through the not yet hardened scales of young dragons.

But then, considering how far apart Euron and Daenerys are right now it will take a lot of time and pages to get them even remotely close to each other. Right now, it is a huge stretch to assume that Euron will even live to meet Daenerys Targaryen. We don't know how long it will take her to go to Westeros, and we don't know yet what Euron is going to do in TWoW. If George wants to set up a Second Dance between Aegon and Dany then Euron might eventually be put down by Aegon. We just don't know.

Whatever success Euron might have - on the grand scale of things destroying the Redwyne fleet and even sacking or conquering Oldtown is still nothing all that great. His power base still are people who aren't equipped or capable of venturing far inland, and they don't have the numbers to even dream of conquering Westeros in any conventional way. Even Euron's ability to slaughter, kill, and spread terror is limited to the coastal regions and the lands close to the rivers he (seemingly) controls access to right now.

If no major houses in Westeros declare for him he is done. Even if he becomes the most powerful sorcerer alive. He cannot hope to win with magic alone (after all, even Sauron and Morgoth needed armies, right?).

The idea that the dragons will 'defeat the Others' is a little bit silly, too. They will help and contribute to victory in that war but one imagines the Others' ice magic can also affect the Others. We know that dragonfire isn't all that useful in rain, so one wonders what good Dany's dragons could do in a huge snow or ice storm. The Others most likely would most likely not jump directly into the dragonfire. However, I guess if they do then they are dead. If dragonglass kills them they stand no chance against the heat and magical power of dragonfire.

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21 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Euron could actually slay Drogon if his Valyrian armor is any good for that kind of thing, and if he ends up getting a Valyrian steel sword. Those should cut like butter through the not yet hardened scales of young dragons.

But then, considering how far apart Euron and Daenerys are right now it will take a lot of time and pages to get them even remotely close to each other. Right now, it is a huge stretch to assume that Euron will even live to meet Daenerys Targaryen. We don't know how long it will take her to go to Westeros, and we don't know yet what Euron is going to do in TWoW. If George wants to set up a Second Dance between Aegon and Dany then Euron might eventually be put down by Aegon. We just don't know.

Whatever success Euron might have - on the grand scale of things destroying the Redwyne fleet and even sacking or conquering Oldtown is still nothing all that great. His power base still are people who aren't equipped or capable of venturing far inland, and they don't have the numbers to even dream of conquering Westeros in any conventional way. Even Euron's ability to slaughter, kill, and spread terror is limited to the coastal regions and the lands close to the rivers he (seemingly) controls access to right now.

If no major houses in Westeros declare for him he is done. Even if he becomes the most powerful sorcerer alive. He cannot hope to win with magic alone (after all, even Sauron and Morgoth needed armies, right?).

The idea that the dragons will 'defeat the Others' is a little bit silly, too. They will help and contribute to victory in that war but one imagines the Others' ice magic can also affect the Others. We know that dragonfire isn't all that useful in rain, so one wonders what good Dany's dragons could do in a huge snow or ice storm. The Others most likely would most likely not jump directly into the dragonfire. However, I guess if they do then they are dead. If dragonglass kills them they stand no chance against the heat and magical power of dragonfire.

Why are you so certain that Euron is not going to go to Meereen and get Dany? I was wrong about where his battle with the Redwyne fleet occur, but there is still every reason to think he will head toward Meereen once the Redwyne and Hightower fleets are destroyed. After he takes out the greatest threat to the IB reavers, he can head on out to get Dany. He really won't be able to do anything more in Westeros until he gets her. And although I don't like it, it appears he is the Greyjoy Dany has apparently been destined to marry. It also appears he is the stone beast.

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that Moqorro says Euron is coming and Quaithe doesn't warn Dany about him at all. This suggests that Quaithe is working with Euron and Euron will indeed show up. There is every reason that once the two fleets have been destroyed Euron can and should go to Meereen himself.

Now, you are wondering why I think Euron can leave Westeros after these battles. The reason is as you have pointed out, Euron can't win the throne with only his magic and no allies. He is going to need dragons to take Westeros. By defeating the two navies, particularly the Redwyne, before he goes he can re-enter Westeros with less opposition (he thinks-there is the Manderly fleet and we will have to see how that plays out).

When Euron goes he will leave IB reaving across Westeros. They will be put down by the time Euron returns (as you've pointed out they will be put down even if Euron remains), but they will leave Westeros even weaker and more ripe for the picking. I have been wondering about why the IB are mainly attacking the Reach. The biggest reason is this is still the most powerful area left after the Wof5K. Only Dorne and the Vale will remain unblooded; both of these regions are not particularly susceptible to the IB form battle.

Anyhow, I don't see any reason for Euron to remain in Westeros once this coming battle is complete. He has a strong reason to head toward Dany and the foreshadowing suggests these two share a path for at least a while.

 

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@bent branch

I don't buy Dany taking an Ironborn consort. Not the way how things have been set up. She is now with the Dothraki. If she goes back to the beginning one should expect her to take another Dothraki as husband.

Moqorro's mentions his vision of Euron as a threat to Dany, but I see no reason why we can't reduce that to Victarion acting as Euron's representative - which was now cut short by Moqorro himself, presumably.

Unless we assume Euron has means to remote control people - and there are no hints in that direction yet - there is no reason to assume that he should learn soon that his Victarion plan has gone awry. And if he gets news about Daznak's Pit and Daenerys' disappearance/alleged death he might be done with that part of his plan. If he began now began personally searching for Dany at the far ends of the world every advantage he might have gained with the Ironborn will be lost by his return.

George has also indicated that Tyrion and Dany are not going to meet each other early on in TWoW. That could be a hint that Dany is not going to return to Meereen soon, or that Dany's people might no longer be in Meereen when/if she returns there (or just that Tyrion might be gone by then).

And Euron might be able to find allies in Westeros to begin his conquest without dragons, Cersei most of all.

Quaithe-Euron is way too far-fetched for me.

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4 hours ago, draft0 said:

The Others are the final boss. I think that's beyond dispute. But is there is a Night's King leading them? Who knows?

Why should a Night King be leading them? In the books, he was just their human stooge, whom they were manipulating for their own ends. And he was allegedly treating the people under his command in they way that sounds quite similar to what Euron is doing. The show just liked how his title sounded and used it for the Big Bad.

The Others are intelligent creatures, who might have deduced that having somebody doing stuff in the south might be more valuable to them, as humanity is bound to unite against them, once they attack in force. Or maybe they need him do something specific, even, before they can advance - much has changed since the last Long Night, after all, some forgotten magical safeguards other than the Wall might have been added, etc.  Because, after all, it shouldn't be that difficult to simply circumvent the Wall. The wildlings manage it on a regular basis.

And who is it say that they don't have a stooge in the North too, or maybe that they had somebody, but it didn't pan out? Nor would Euron necessary have to know that he is doing the Others bidding, yet. I come back to the sorcerer who castrated Varys and used the power to contact... something, and how Varys still has nightmares about the voice of that something and not of his own suffering. IMHO, it is increasingly likely that the Voice was an Other. And it is easy to imagine Euron having similar experiences, given his experiments with magic and sacrifice.

12 hours ago, DrunkSister said:

 Nevertheless, this chapter is choke full of bible references.

{snip}

I have a question for others, since Euron is pretty much becoming chthulu in the later visions, is the shadow in shape of a woman also a shout-out to something from elsewhere?

Whoa, this is excellent, excellent stuff! There are, indeed, many relevant parallels. As to the woman, I immediately thought of the Whore of Babylon (yea, I know that she is supposed to symbolize the eponymous city, but when a shoe fits...)  , googled it and I'll just copy Revelation 17:1 -17:11 here, because IMHO there are a lot of relevant things in it:

17:1

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: - Euron?

17:2

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. - could refer to Cersei _or_ to the Other who seduced the Night King

17:3

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having _seven heads and ten horns_. - might be either Cersei or Dany. 10 horns are excessive, but magical horns are becoming increasingly important.

17:4

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: - Cersei?

17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. - Cersei,once she moves against the Faith?

17:9

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

17:10

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. - War of Five Kings, but Stannis is yet alive in the books, so maybe at some future point, after he dies and Aegon becomes king?

17:11

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition. -  Euron

   
   
   

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Wow, I never suspected Aeron would be with the Crow's Eye. And that's some epic stuff.

 

I always suspected Euron had some uncunny powers. It is confirmed now that he got some incredible real time intell about the military moves of his ennemies. Glasscandle ?  His shaddow wife ? Warging ?

 

Second, I've always dream of Valyrian steel mails or armor, and there it is !!! So, great. Give me valyrian steel sword and armor, and an Arthur Dayne in his 30's (we could dream, we could dream).

However, I still don't believe Euron set foot on Valyria as he claimed. However, his armor indicates he had recovered some treasure of some sort from the old Valyria. Why did he wait so long to put his armor on??

Actually, since Dragonsteel had been identified as Valyrian Steel as a weapon against the others, speculations about recovering valyrian steel had led me to a theory: a part of Valyria is now underwater, even though during the doom of Valyria, Dragonriders might have tried to escaped but were nonetheless engulfed by smokes, fumes, ashes or fire from Valyria. Moreover, many a treasure sank into the seas during battles or storms. I wager the best way to recover some of those treasures, would be to take control over an sea animal mind (kraken's mind for instances) to make it pick up the stuffs.

It could be that Euron could  recover the treasures at the bottom of the sea if he is a powerful warg enough.

 

I just don't understand why Euron forced Aeron to drink the shade of the evening, especially if he decided to kill his brother. I hope Aeron would survive and we know more about that plot line.

 

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So I take it that this means the 'Bride of Fire' trilogy relates to the Three Mounts you must ride.

The Silver and the Ship with Aeron on the Prow fits that. But these are very literal compared to the blue rose in the wall of ice. We assumed the Blue rose was Jon but the other two are not as figurative. I would assume that she will need to 'mount' this wall of ice as in climb it?

 

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12 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

If you’re still skeptical about Euron as the new Night’s King, even after the evidence that he’s Bloodraven’s bad seed, his icy-cold dick in Dany’s dream, his terrifying pale bride in Damphair’s vision, “all of Westeros is dying,” and Sam bringing the Horn of Joramun into a city Euron is invading, let me ask ya this. 

How does the Night’s Watch signal the arrival of the Others? Three horn blasts.

And how does Euron signal his arrival the kingsmoot? Three horn blasts.

Winter is coming. 

Nice!  I was thinking about the Red Priests he had.  I wonder if he has learned anything about bringing something back to life from them. 

12 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

NO SHOW HERE! /O/ But if you want, remember that Theon actually returned to the Iron Islands. I'm sure Theon will also. In the books, IICR, Asha is looking to void the Kingsmoot. Considering that Theon is Balon's only son, I think she has a chance to do so. There wouldn't be a need for a Kingsmoot if the real "heir" shows up. 

I can only see a few possibilities.  Either Theon voids the KM as you say, or he stands for Asha and agrees to be her Hand.  I don't see the IB voting his way, they seem to be suspicious of his "Greenland" nature. 

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14 hours ago, draft0 said:

A lot of the details changed since 1993. The three major plot acts have not.

Stannis and Renly are side characters, just like Euron. None of them are really that important.

It's possible Euron is connected with the Other storyline, I suppose. I just think it makes more sense for him to be an antagonist for Dany. I mean, he's currently trying to marry her, steal her dragons, and take over her kingdom. This antagonist role fits perfectly with the prophecies in the House of the Undying and it also fits with GRRM's leaked outline.

I agree. 

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3 hours ago, Poupsi said:

 

I just don't understand why Euron forced Aeron to drink the shade of the evening, especially if he decided to kill his brother. I hope Aeron would survive and we know more about that plot line.

 

Euron has an abusers need to be given vindication by his victims. It's not enough that the rest of the Iron Born fools think Euron is their salvation he needs someone like Aeron, who knows there is a monster under that pirate costume, to bow down to him as well. He wants Aeron to bend the knee and claim Euron to be a the legitimate ruler of the Iron Islands for largely the same reason. He forces the Nightshade down Aeron's throat as he thinks the "truth" about himself is so awe inspiring that Aeron will just have to bend the knee eventually. He can also share this "truth" with Aeron as he knows his brother will be dead soon so why not slip of the mask? 

I also think Euron fancies himself a great seducer and gets off on this power. I think Falia Flowers is a great example of this right in this chapter. This will play out in whatever association he has with Dany and his desire to marry her. For what it's worth, I think in the end she turns Euron down and decides to do battle with him...however I also think she will seriously consider the marriage. 

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Shoot, I was so looking forward to the scene where Missandei, Daenerys, the Dusky Woman and Victarion all meet and it turns out that Euron has been glamouring Missandei's mum, whom Victarion has been keeping as a bedwarmer. Bummer. 

Does anyone still really believe that Daenerys would willingly wed Victarion or Euron? 

Other than the fact that Aeron Greyjoy has been lashed to the prow of Euron's ship, is there any reason to assume this satisfies the second bride of fire vision--A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly? 

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7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Euron could actually slay Drogon if his Valyrian armor is any good for that kind of thing, and if he ends up getting a Valyrian steel sword. Those should cut like butter through the not yet hardened scales of young dragons.

But then, considering how far apart Euron and Daenerys are right now it will take a lot of time and pages to get them even remotely close to each other. Right now, it is a huge stretch to assume that Euron will even live to meet Daenerys Targaryen. We don't know how long it will take her to go to Westeros, and we don't know yet what Euron is going to do in TWoW. If George wants to set up a Second Dance between Aegon and Dany then Euron might eventually be put down by Aegon. We just don't know.

Whatever success Euron might have - on the grand scale of things destroying the Redwyne fleet and even sacking or conquering Oldtown is still nothing all that great. His power base still are people who aren't equipped or capable of venturing far inland, and they don't have the numbers to even dream of conquering Westeros in any conventional way. Even Euron's ability to slaughter, kill, and spread terror is limited to the coastal regions and the lands close to the rivers he (seemingly) controls access to right now.

If no major houses in Westeros declare for him he is done. Even if he becomes the most powerful sorcerer alive. He cannot hope to win with magic alone (after all, even Sauron and Morgoth needed armies, right?).

The idea that the dragons will 'defeat the Others' is a little bit silly, too. They will help and contribute to victory in that war but one imagines the Others' ice magic can also affect the Others. We know that dragonfire isn't all that useful in rain, so one wonders what good Dany's dragons could do in a huge snow or ice storm. The Others most likely would most likely not jump directly into the dragonfire. However, I guess if they do then they are dead. If dragonglass kills them they stand no chance against the heat and magical power of dragonfire.

I think the Second Dance of Dragons is Euron versus Aegon versus Daenerys or Euron and Daenerys in an alliance versus Aegon.

Also it looks like Euron's on his way to Daenerys at the moment. They can meet halfway through the book.

And it seems that Euron's going to start a second Doom in Oldtown and that region.

But whatever he's going to do at Oldtown is rippling through the dreamscape just like the Red Wedding did:

Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths.

I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall.

"One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

"He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood­-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles."

 

Euron may or may not become something more than man after his mass sacrifice.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4m33w9/spoilers_twow_ripples_in_the_dreamscape_grrm/

 

Edited by Lord_Ravenstone

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22 hours ago, northernmonkey said:

The interesting thing about Euron is that for someone who is supposedly godless he's definitely in touch with his spiritual side. Since he was a child he dreamed that he could fly (in a way that's reminiscent of Bran) and since he became an adult he regularly hallucinates and cavorts with warlocks and wizards of all kinds. It seems like he's got some kind of demented supernatural edge that to me makes him a lot more interesting than Ramsay. 

It makes for an interesting comparison with Aeron. Aeron is the religious one but rigidly sticks to the traditional way of life. Euron is the godless one but his mind his completely open to everything the world has got. I wonder if Euron is a way for GRRM to express his views on religion in ASOIAF in some way.

EDIT: To put it simply it's the religious aspect to Euron's storyline that makes him so interesting. The same goes for Aeron for that mater.

This. This is EXACTLY why I find him so compelling. Not once did I feel he was "evil for the sake of being evil". We only see it so because we see him most through Aeron, a brother who hates and fears him fiercely. Of all the magic we've seen, from with her fire walk and dragons, to Melisandre and her fires, to Quaithe with her mysterious prophecies, Euron seems the most outworldish and magical. Is he a villain? I haven't seen any good or heroic forces that he's opposed. Evil/twisted doesn't always equal villain. There's a lot more to him than what Aeron lets us see.

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Whatever happens, Westeros looks good and fucked. 

No wonder it's taking George so long to finish: He's writing the apocalypse. 

Edited by Winter Blues

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21 minutes ago, Winter Blues said:

Whatever happens, Westeros looks good and fucked. 

No wonder it's taking George so long to finish: He's writing the apocalypse. 

Rome wasn't unmade in a day.  ;) 

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43 minutes ago, Winter Blues said:

Whatever happens, Westeros looks good and fucked. 

No wonder it's taking George so long to finish: He's writing the apocalypse. 

Maybe he's like Berserk's author who has to take a break because of how depressing his series is 

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 Ok I"m late on this whole read. I only just read the summary provided by @DarkSister1001 on the Euron the abomination thread. I was skimming some of the theories about the bride with hands of white fire. The first thing I was thinking of when I heard white fire is some sort of euphemism for ice. This could be way off but could we have a similar situation of the Night king and finding a bride amongst the others? If that was even the case.  It would fit along with what @LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse mentioned about him being an instrument of the Great Other

Other than that random thought I'm pretty horrified with Euron and hoping things go south for him somehow. 

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I'm surprised nobody has ever mentioned this thread yet. Not even PoorQuentyn.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/128971-badbrother-euron-greyjoy-urrathon-night-walker-and-the-hooded-man-of-winterfell/

I've noticed recently that Urrathon Night-Walker that was mentioned casually by Xaro Xhoan Daxos in Qarth in ACOK has name that is surprisingly similar to Urrathon IV Goodbrother "Badbrother" that was the Ironborn king during the Age of Heroes. This "Badbrother" was also mentioned by Asha's mate that he was the king who got disposed by Torgon Greyiron "Latecomer" and became the inspiration for Asha and co to find Theon and bring him back to the Iron Islands to challenge Euron's kingsmoot. Urrathon's sigil is also a "horn".

Well, Urrathon Night-Walker's house should be more than hundred of years old, but Euron definitely lived for less than half a century. It's still impossible for Euron to be the said Urrathon unless Xaro didn't mention in detail that the said house had changed its name not long ago.

I used to think "What a freaking coincidence!" that Euron somehow met the warlocks and captured them when they were about to sail from Qarth. But what if it wasn't a freak coincidence but Euron knowingly captured them because he was in Qarth from the beginning?

 

I also think that Quaithe and Euron are in cahoots since both shadowbinders and night walkers seem to be common there. And Quaithe warned Dany against anyone who could have been her ally, even Moqorro and Victaron who seem to be against Euron.

The shadow of a woman in Aeron's vision that was laughing alongside Euron might be Quaithe, who I sort of believe that she's Shiera Seastar in disguise. And these are her character descriptions:

Quote

Dunk: You've known queens and princesses. Did they dance with demons and practice the black arts?

Egg: Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven's paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty

- Dunk and Egg

Quote

Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled.

- Barriston Selmy's thoughts

Quote

Though she never wed, she had many offers, and several lovers through the years. Duels were fought over the right to sit beside her, men killed themselves after falling from her favor, poets outdid each other writing songs about her beauty. Her most ardent admirer was her half-brother, Bloodraven, who proposed marriage to her half a hundred times. Shiera gave him her bed, but never her hand. It amused her more to make him jealous.

- GRRM about Shiera

Seriously, she has the worst personality among all the people in the series. Not even Cersei could match a strand of her arrogance. She make her lovers killing each other for her own amusement. And if Blackfyre's Rebellion(s) was actually engineered by her all along by pitting Bloodraven and Bittersteel against each other for her own amusement, she would be the most befitting the terrible woman in Aeron's vision.

Daenerys can't be one. I never believe she would laugh at others' misery.

Cersei might be a terrible woman, but not that terrible. She's the narcissist who enjoys being praised and respected by others even if she's incompetent and cruel. But that terrible woman female version of Euron.

And there's noway it'd have been Melisandre. She's a fanatic, but not a monster.

And thus all that left is Shiera, and if the rumors are true she probably baths in maiden's blood regularly to keep her youth. All terrible BS rumors the slavers made to slander Daenerys were things Shiera probably did.

 

BTW, night-walker and whitewalker sound similar. What is the characteristic of a night-walker anyway.

Edited by Schwarze Sonne
Grammar

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I think people are simply painting all the psychos/sadists in the series with the same brush, people saying that Ramsay/Euron/Whoever else are exactly the same.

I think Euron is actually unique as he is the only character that causes senseless violence and destruction at both the micro and macro scale; Tywin for instance caused a massive amount of destruction, but he did most of it for pragmatic reasons, and in terms of individuals most of his cruelty was towards those who he feel damaged the Lannisters in some way.

Ramsay is exceptionally cruel but doesn't particularly want to cause chaos on a greater level, Baelish causes chaos because he thinks it will help him acquire power. Euron has the power he wanted and uses it to create chaos on a massive scale, seemingly because that it what he enjoys (on top of personally being cruel to individuals like Ramsay is).

You may feel that his character is boring/shallow, but he does do things differently from other characters in the series

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On 5/30/2016 at 0:18 PM, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

I can totally see Melisandre being that terrible shadowed tall woman with white fire. She is i think the character that better fits.

 

This was my interpretation as well. She thanks R'hllor for his " pure white fire" in Storm of Swords. The only only other "white fire" reference I could find was in AFFC when Aeron is describing the glyphs on the purported Dragon Horn after it was blown.

A Euron & Mel combination would keep with the fire and ice/dark and light theme. She also has access (through Stannis or in his place) to a ground force that Euron will ultimately need. Danny most likely, if given full information and choice, will not align with Euron. Thus, Mel may be necessary if Euron intends to take the Iron Throne or defend it against Danny. This is especially true if the Dragon Horn is fake or only can control one dragon at a time. 

If the Dragon Horn is real, no matter how many dragons it can control, and if Mel has, knows where or obtains the Horn of Winter, together they could be very dangerous and powerful. 

 

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