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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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The White Woman is probably Cat, heh, I will be right sooner or later and be able to laugh because ya, I thought of that.

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On 5/29/2016 at 4:54 PM, Ran said:

Tall, terrible bride with hands of white fire... all this shade of the evening business, the killing of gods...

His eye is finally described, his bloody eye.

Who else is said to have red eyes at times? Those destined to be greenseers.

And then...

 

 

I think it's been suggested before, somewhere, but I think this underscores some substance to the notion that Euron was born a dreamer... and was twisted by something or someone (the heart of winter and its spears?) into essentially becoming (probably without any real awareness) an agent of the Others. The bride? A reference to the corpse queen, perhaps, some notion in his head that drives him?

Hrm.... is his penhcant for mutes a way to make "wights" of his own?

Good catch no doubt he is a Greenseer or at least a dreamer that's why he needs shade of the evening, he is mimicking what he has seen. It looks in a way like he mirrors the Night's King. But the symbolism is inverted in a way. The eye is red not blue. He does not seek a bride of ice, the Night's Queen but a bride of fire Dany. He does not wear Ice armor but Valyrian steel (dragon forged). The gods on the spears mirror the greenseers on the spires. He seeks the red keep not the Land of always winter. He seems between two events, sort of mirroring what is to come and what the Night's King (If there is a Night's King) wants.

Would you believe me if I told you the historical Night's King was a Lannister? You probably wouldn't, but I would make a gentleman bet on it.

Ha page 33, I have no luck.

Edited by Ser Creighton

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9 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

Would you believe me if I told you the historical Night's King was a Lannister? You probably wouldn't, but I would make a gentleman bet on it.

I'm interested and all ears.....eyes...whatever....

 

P.S.   I and a handful of others have gotten really into parallels and inversions and inverse parallels in a big way lately - not everyone realizes that you are kindof the Godfather of all that, so I wanted to give you a shoutout for unknowingly sending me/us down that path...thanks!

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I used to believe the 'towers by the sea' that Mel saw crumbling under a black and bloody tide were from Aeron calling something magical down on the Iron Islands, but that obviously isn't gonna happen now.  

The bloody tide part definitely makes me think of Euron after reading this chapter, maybe he calls down some form of the Hammer of the Waters on a city by the sea?  I believe he's trying to draw actual krakens by spilling blood into the sea, but it's possible he's working some bigger magic too.  

The city could be KL, Volantis, Meereen, etc.  Tons of candidates.  

I haven't read all 30 pages of this thread, so forgive me if this has been brought up.  

 

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4 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

I'm interested and all ears.....eyes...whatever....

 

P.S.   I and a handful of others have gotten really into parallels and inversions and inverse parallels in a big way lately - not everyone realizes that you are kindof the Godfather of all that, so I wanted to give you a shoutout for unknowingly sending me/us down that path...thanks!

Ha thank you, but I did not start the Parallels, people kept coming up with the wrong answers. So I looked closer and started studying the symbolism of the books, starting with the title. Juxtaposition, mirroring, inversion, ice and fire, sun and moon whatever. The original idea actually came from something I heard Ran say. A long time in an interview about 5-6 years ago, he was doing an interview for I think Winters coming, I don't exactly remember he was on a big screen talking about the show. When he was asked for advice on people who would be new to the books, he said read them forwards and backwards, and had a sly look on his face. I don't know for sure if he meant anything by it, but I ran (no pun intended) with that idea.

But thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it, and if people enjoy it or it helps in anyway, that's great. 

Anyway it's not really the place to post that stuff, but I will be writing something up on the what I think is the origin of the Night's King, the Andals, and the North.

Quick parallel with inversion, Euron is Iron Born, the Others hate Iron. Forgot to write that in my first post. But you get the idea, the Red eye, the bride of fire, Iron Born. Blue eyes, Bride of Ice, hates Iron.

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43 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

I used to believe the 'towers by the sea' that Mel saw crumbling under a black and bloody tide were from Aeron calling something magical down on the Iron Islands, but that obviously isn't gonna happen now.  

The bloody tide part definitely makes me think of Euron after reading this chapter, maybe he calls down some form of the Hammer of the Waters on a city by the sea?  I believe he's trying to draw actual krakens by spilling blood into the sea, but it's possible he's working some bigger magic too.  

The city could be KL, Volantis, Meereen, etc.  Tons of candidates.  

I haven't read all 30 pages of this thread, so forgive me if this has been brought up.  

 

How about Sunspear? 

Quote

The shadows of the afternoon were long and dark and the sun was as red and swollen as the prince's joints before they glimpsed the towers of Sunspear to the east. First the slender Spear Tower, a hundred-and-a-half feet tall and crowned with a spear of gilded steel that added another thirty feet to its height; then the mighty Tower of the Sun, with its dome of gold and leaded glass; last the dun-colored Sandship, looking like some monstrous dromond that had washed ashore and turned to stone.

"Turned to stone" ... hmm... 

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Storm's End for the first and last storm, the defier of gods. The place of his ascendency.

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37 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Storm's End for the first and last storm, the defier of gods. The place of his ascendency.

"As the gods will it. Bring on your storm, my lord—and recall, if you do, the name of this castle."

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Just now, SeanF said:

I can't say I feel any sympathy for Falia, although her unborn child doesn't deserve to die.

Why not? She was mistreated by her half sisters and step mothers, thought she was going to be saved from her bad situation by Euron, but was used for sex, mutilated and murdered by him while pregnsnt with his child.

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1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Why not? She was mistreated by her half sisters and step mothers, thought she was going to be saved from her bad situation by Euron, but was used for sex, mutilated and murdered by him while pregnsnt with his child.

She suggested that Euron have her step-mother and step-sisters stripped naked.  One of them was then raped in front of them all.

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11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

How about Sunspear? 

As I've said above repeatedly:

If Euron crushes the Redwyne fleet and considering that he is after the Iron Throne he should turn his eye east and the north, towards KL, not west to Oldtown.

If Doran commits his armies to Aegon he might provoke an attack by Euron on Sunspear. Euron should be pissed about Aegon in any case, because the guy will also be stealing his thunder.

He has no chance of conquering Dorne, of course, but all-out war is more likely to break out if he actually captured Sunspear and perhaps even killed Doran and Trystane in the process. That could very well be the scene about the stone beast taking wing from a burning tower, breathing shadow fire.

Perhaps Euron will proclaim and crown himself King of Westeros after he has taken Sunspear? In response to Aegon's coronation at KL shortly before that?

That would fit nicely and could also mark the realization of both the cloth dragon and the stone beast vision, respectively. Aegon's coronation at the Great Sept being cheered by the commoners being the cloth dragon vision. 

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On June 8, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Fanny said:

Certainly, that's as preposterous as the other side of the spectrum claiming Victarion is the evilest of evil characters in ASOIAF. He's certainly done fucked up things (top of which would be the murder of his salt wife, which still torments him BTW), but he's got redeeming qualities, unlike Euron as far as we know.

I'm totally on board with the idea that certain individuals are indeed "born" evil or, better put, are evil from the age children usually can tell right from wrong. Whether Euron falls into this category remains to be seen. For those craving for "nuance" in every single character, the "failed greenseer" probable backstory is certainly one. As is being raised in a culture like the Ironborn and being Balon's heir during his youth, both of which would provide a good environment for his psychopathic tendencies to thrive. It's very likely Quellon paid too much attention to his first born in detriment to all his other kids, which would be another factor (TWOIAF's relation of Balon as a precocious overachiever and that Aeron's and Urrigon's abuse went unpunished support this).

Good points about Euron's upbringing. Given free reign, such as when Balon sends him away, he'd be able to indulge in whatever twisted fantasies he harbors. His charisma and generosity with plunder probably keep his men loyal to him, and he most likely visits his attentions (murder, rape, torture, etc.) on outsiders and others his men would dislike as well. And I agree than Quellon was probably not Dad of the Year. 

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20 hours ago, Whitering said:

The White Woman is probably Cat, heh, I will be right sooner or later and be able to laugh because ya, I thought of that.

Given the animosity between the Lannisters and the Ironborn, I wonder? Would Lady Stoneheart team up with Euron to destroy the Lannisters? Or would she equate him with Theon, the supposed killer of Bran and Rickon? I wonder if LS would be susceptible to charm, Euron being all "I had nothing to do with that! I was at sea!" Right now she's focused on Jaime for Robb's death, could be that her undead memory is limited to her last thoughts. Although she remembers Brienne's oath.. Ah, forum rambling! :rolleyes:

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Just now, SeanF said:

She suggested that Euron have her step-mother and step-sisters stripped naked.  One of them was then raped in front of them all.

How is that her fault? Having them forced to serve naked isn't nice, but she wasn't treated well. It's not like she asked for the Iron Born to rape them.

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A pretty interesting chapter. It was nice to catch up with Euron. Also a lot of interesting ideas and theories going around this topic. I always enjoy seeing what some of the most observant readers spot or make connections too. I've never been good at spotting hidden meanings or hints in the text, but one thing I thought was kind of interesting, but could be nothing, is the similarity of the situations of Aeron and Theon in their sample chapters.

Why I say it could be nothing is that I can't really make any theory around it and it could just be me making a few loose connections into more than it is, but here goes:

Aeron and Theon being held prisoner by a king. Each king being on the verge of a battle. Then each chapter ending with what seems to be the soon sacrifice of each.

Not exactly a lot to go by. Another thing I find interesting and this one is far more of a leap as it needs the idea of Euron to be in someway involved with The Others, but the contrast of Euron and Stannis. Stannis being the only king at the moment  with the intention of opposing The Others. Then Euron.. the only king who might be involved with them.

Also the motivation for the sacrifices. If I am remembering correctly Stannis is also contemplating sacrificing some Karstarks? As some want him to burn Theon.  Euron is clearly going through with a mass sacrifice and Stannis might be. So we have Stannis seeming to sacrifice for political reasons. With Theon being executed Neds way to appease the Northmen and possibly a few burnings to satisfy the R'hllorists. Then Euron with a mass sacrifice purely for magic.

It could be coincedence. It could be nothing. It might be something? It's probably nothing. It's just with them both being Greyjoys and having these chapters relatively near each other. The chapters ending with what seems to be their inevitable sacrifices seemed interesting.

 

 

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Anyone else in denial about Aeron dying?

I just can't bear the idea that he won't play a part in Euron's eventual downfall, then again I've also always thought that Euron would end up making it up until the climax of ADoS before finally being defeated, which means the source of his defeat is one of the big 4 (Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Bran)

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5 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

How is that her fault? Having them forced to serve naked isn't nice, but she wasn't treated well. It's not like she asked for the Iron Born to rape them.

What did she think was going to happen, forcing a bunch of girls to strip naked in rooms full of iron born reavers?  LOL.

 

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38 minutes ago, IdoTheChoombi said:

Anyone else in denial about Aeron dying?

I just can't bear the idea that he won't play a part in Euron's eventual downfall, then again I've also always thought that Euron would end up making it up until the climax of ADoS before finally being defeated, which means the source of his defeat is one of the big 4 (Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Bran)

The piss that was promised must be fulfilled!

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On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 6:32 PM, Mark the Red said:

 I guess we'll just agree to disagree here.  I don't believe your premise that there is no such thing as evil, and that all people are born good and made bad by externalities.    Current events with ISIS are a great salient example: Thousands of pampered and wealthy Muslims have left happy families in the West and gone through considerable travel difficulties / efforts to partake in sadistic murders  of unarmed civilians and gang rapes of  girls, many under the age of 10.  GRRM has no qualms whatsoever about making villains evil, and I cant think of a greater evil than the rape of children.

Don't be so naive about Victarion apologists either.  There are fanboi's here who actually think he is Azor Ahai.  Really.  I'm serious.

You say that like being Azor Ahai is a good thing.

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

What did she think was going to happen, forcing a bunch of girls to strip naked in rooms full of iron born reavers?  LOL

That wasn't her fault and the IB don't need her permission to rape women.

 

 

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